The seven kings

shilohsfoal

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That would be great, I appreciate it.
Although the US and Trump are not the first beast mentioned in revelation,Trump does have much to do with what happens in Jerusalem in the coming years .I understand andhave understood for about 20 years that during this administration that the Israelis would recieve the mark of the beast.It will take place within three years and im presently awaiting to see his peace plan .
 
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Revealing Times

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So a basic tenet of Christianity is that Eze 37 is talking about the end times? I don't think so.
You can think as you like, but that has no effect on the facts or Gods word. You can't even tell that the passage couldn't fit until the end times, so that's on you isn't it brother?

I also don't see how you got "majority." All you did was reassert it by saying, "as in 90%." So, demonstrate how it's 90% and explain why majority opinion is relevant.
The same way I understand that 85-90 percent of Christendom believe in the pre-trib Rapture.

I don't see it that way.
Or it doesn't fit what you are saying so you gotta say that !! OK, I understand.

No, it's just that quoting passages at length and highlighting some parts without explaining what you think they mean or how they support your postition isn't very useful.
If you can't get it that not my fault is it? What most do is they just love to reply via their own ideas, they just skim over the posts and zoom in their ideas.

Except for those that believed.
And that is not the relevant fact when determining Israel rejected God is it? Because there will always be a FEW FAITHFUL BELIEVERS. Its Israel as a whole. Just like when ALL ISRAEL is SAVED, its not actually ALL JEWS it just means Israel as a Nation turns to God, not every Jew will turn to God as a matter of fact 2/3 will be killed by the Beast/Anti-Christ, and only 1/3 will be saved, but ALL ISRAEL will be SAVED because Israel as a Nation is preserved.

So you say.

It looks to me that the promise made to Abraham in Gen 17 was intended to encompass the whole earth. That seems to be how the Psalms took it and how Jesus took it (Ps 2:8, 37, 82:8; Mat 5:5). That also seems to be how Paul took it (Rom 4:13, Gal 3:28-19). It seems to be how other Jews of the 2nd temple period understood it (Jub 22:13-14, 32:19; 1 En 5:7; 4 Ez 6:39).

So I guess I would have to disagree on those grounds.
Might want to take a better look at the parameters of the promised land. Now could God have told them what Jesus' 1000 year reign would look like elsewhere? I haven't studied it, but I think you originally asked about THE PROMISE LAND and thus the parameters of that.

I think Jesus is Lord, not Jesus plus Satan. I think when Paul says that Satan is the "god of this world" he's only referring to the fact that people don't worship the God of Israel - I don't think he means it as literally as you take it as if Satan is a deity running the show. I think Paul believed Jesus was Lord, since he said as much. In any case, I think there is only is one God, Yahweh, from whom are all things and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live (1 Cor 8:6). I don't think this is some subjective belief, as if it's something that is only my own personal belief - I think it's reality whether anyone acknowledges it or not.

People like you just kinda live in your own world don't you sir. HINT !! Look around you sir, what do you see? A world in which this world looks like unto Satan not Christ, billions of Abortions, homosexual marriage, hate, murder, greed, lust, inappropriate content, filth, lies etc. etc. etc.

Jesus even told us that we are not to LOVE this world but to HATE it. Satan told Jesus in Luke 4 when he tempted him that all of these Kingdoms were given unto him to do as he pleased with, he that if he would just bow down and worship him they would all be his. The Seven Headed Beast is all about the Dragon's POWER over this world, that's what the Crowns mean in Rev. ch. 12. Jesus wrests control away from Satan in Rev. ch. 11, that can only be done if Satan is in control now.

Men must come to Christ by Faith because we are born into sin, into a Kingdom that is EVIL and of Satan. You just don't quite get that for some reason brother.
 
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Revealing Times

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This is your own interpretation. In order for this to be true, there has to be scripture defining the harlot as ALL FALSE RELIGION. Can you please provide this?
No, this is a fact, its of the Holy Spirit, whats not of God is the 200 different ideas about who the Harlot is. I put in much time on this and its not just something I came up with willy-nilly. I have a thread on this and have blogged on it years ago.
Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained
 
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Revealing Times

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Otherwise, let’s use scripture to define scripture:

The harlot is defined as the great city:

And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”
Revelation 17:18

The great city is Jerusalem:
Can you not READ? !!!

I specifically show what GREAT CITY John saw, you guys just like replying, but I don't really think you put effort into reading others posts. Babylon is that Great City. There were MANY Great Cities. You can't pigeonhole God by saying all Great Cities must be ONE GREAT CITY !!
 
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claninja

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No, this is a fact,

If this is a fact, you should easily be able to provide scripture that states the harlot is false religion.

I put in much time on this and its not just something I came up with willy nilly. O have a thread on this and have blogged on it years ago.
Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

No where in here do you provide scripture that states the harlot is defined as all false religion.
 
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cfdude

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who was the king during Johns time?

"They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while."
Questions: Is the angel talking to John about the times in which John lives or is the angel referring to the time which is yet to come? Can the "one is" be contextual to the visions?
 
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cfdude

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Ok, excellent, now this is going somewhere. Part of figuring out who the 7 kings are is understanding who the tribulation is for. I'd love to delve into this. Interested? I don't want to be just an annoying troll in this great dialogue.
 
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Douggg

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the "great city" decriptor is not unique to only one city.

Rome - the great city
Jerusalem - the great city (likened to Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8, but in Revelation 11:2 - the holy city)
Babylon the great - the great city.
 
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shilohsfoal

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No, this is a fact, its of the Holy Spirit, whats not of God is the 200 different ideas about who the Harlot is. I put in much time on this and its not just something I came up with willy nilly. O have a thread on this and have blogged on it years ago.
Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained


What is of God is his word,not yours.
And Gods word says the woman who sits on the beast is a city.The city that reigns over the kings of the terrain.

Revelation 17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

That is the word of God which you have chosen to reject.
 
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Revealing Times

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If this is a fact, you should easily be able to provide scripture that states the harlot is false religion.
I do, you are like most, you have preconceived notions and you are blind to the facts. You saying that the book of Revelation has to say something in a scripture is quite funny to be honest. The book of Revelation is one big CODE BOOK and John uses the Old Testament to encode it with. Out of 404 verses in the book of Rev. 289 come from Old Testament Phraseology. We are old for instance in CODE who the Woman (Israel) of Rev. ch. 12 is by reading Genesis 37:9. We are told what the cups the woman (Harlot) is drinking from means by reading Daniel ch. 5, MENE, MENE, TEKEL. Go read it.

Now I suppose its OK for you to say it means Jerusalem because it dosn't say that either does it? You surmised it and brought it in fro another scripture, the problem is you used the wrong scriptures and I do prove its wrong in the thread. God tells us who Babylon is, who He sees as Babylon in Rev. chapter 16, at the 6th and 7th Vial.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city(Jerusalem/Earthquake) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell {Those Gathered at Armageddon FALL and as you see next God sees the as BABYLON} and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So who are these NATIONS THAT FALL at Armageddon? Well lets look and see:

Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So WHO IS BABYLON sir?

We are told aren't we? The Kings of the East (not China) who I see as Iran, Iraq etc. etc. Notice the Euphrates is mentioned. And then the KINGS of the WHOLE WORLD !! Babylon is the Whole World. Just what I say. The Harlot is not Babylon and Babylon is not the Harlot.

God does not BURN Jerusalem the City Jesus is going to be King in for 1000 years, this is nonsensical reasoning. Nowhere is this said in the passages, you surmise that by thinking there is only ONE Great City, which is just beyond unbelievable reasoning. There were MANY GREAT CITIES back during that time, Jerusalem, Rome, Damascus, etc. etc. etc. Babylon is used as a Metaphor because Saran's Kingdom is BABYLON !! It seems to go right over your head that half of Revelation is about Codes and Metaphors. You take on verse about a Great City and try to pigeonhole Gods use of vocabulary, I hate it when people, I hate when people do that. Any GREAT CITY could be the subject, we have to sift through the facts and come up with the answer, like I did above in Rev. 16:19, we know Jerusalem is where Jesus lands on the Mt. of Olives, this that Great City is Jerusalem. But the GREAT CITY of Rev. 17:18 is something John SAW. Now lets go through what he SAW in his vision !! You want me to post his FULL VISION? Its only 4 verses.

HERE'S WHAT JOHN SAW: BELOW

Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

What was that Great City he saw ? Its simple in reality, if we take away the pride and let God lead us unto these truths.

So you think the Kings are going to destroy Jerusalem where it says the Beast will make his abode in Daniel 11:45, that makes no sense at all. But what does make sense is this.

What does the Beast and his Kings want? They want the Beast to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD! So what is their first move? To destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. ALL RELIGIONS, thus in so doing they bring Judgment to the Harlot or ALL FALSE RELIGION. And that is what the very next verse says if you want to read it (Revelation 17:17) says God put it in their heats to fulfill His will. Thus the Harlot is Judged at this time and KILLED OFF. Islam will be wiped out. Its the JUDGMENT of the Harlot, a physical City can't be judged man, come on. By this time the 2/3 of Jews will be killed and the 1/3 of Jews who repented will be in the Wilderness, being protected by God Himself, but you think Gods going to JUDGE an inanimate object, a CITY !!

The Judgment is the Harlot, ALL FALSE RELIGION. That which God hates !!It fits all of the DESCRIPTIONS also. On MANY WATERS.....Jerusalem is not on many waters. And later on we are told what this means. It means PEOPLES.....NATIONS.....MULTITUDES......TONGUES. This is telling us very clearly that the Harlot is MANY NATIONS (Whole World) and she is among many Peoples, Languages and thereby she is many different Multitudes.

Jerusalem even being mentioned is in reality MIND BOGGLING.
 
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claninja

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There were MANY Great Cities.

In the Old Testament yes, there are many cities called the great city. But we are focusing on revelation and the great city is defined in revelation 11 as Jerusalem.

In order to prove your point, you will have to provide scripture the defined the great city as all false religion.

You can't pigeonhole God by saying all Great Cities must be ONE GREAT CITY !!

And no scripture is of private interpretation. If the great city is all false religion as you say, then there will be scripture defining the great city as such in revelation. So please provide that
 
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A71

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Babylon is described as Mystery Babylon, not simply Babylon. If it were just Babylon, you would be right, but the mystery indicates it has a hidden identity. Given that it is a Harlot, which is a great city, and the blood of the prophets has been shed there, then it logically follows that is Jerusalem.
Can you not READ? !!!

I specifically show what GREAT CITY John saw, you guys just like replying, but I don't really think you put effort into reading others posts. Babylon is that Great City. There were MANY Great Cities. You can't pigeonhole God by saying all Great Cities must be ONE GREAT CITY !!
 
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claninja

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Although the US and Trump are not the first beast mentioned in revelation,Trump does have much to do with what happens in Jerusalem in the coming years

This is where I would disagree. Earthly Jerusalem was cast out when the old covenant ended. The heavenly Jerusalem is where we come to now.

Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
Galatians 4:25-26,30
 
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claninja

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Questions: Is the angel talking to John about the times in which John lives or is the angel referring to the time which is yet to come? Can the "one is" be contextual to the visions?
Good question.
I guess it depends on ones eschatological view point.

I believe the harlot is unfaithful old covenant Jerusalem who jesus promised would be punished for all the righteous blood shed.

So from that standpoint, the one who is, was present during the time of John. But unfortunately John doesn’t go any further than calling the one who is, a king. So the identity of the one who is, is not so clear.

35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:35-36

And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.
Revelation 17:6
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”
Revelation 18:24
for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
Revelation 19:2
 
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Babylon is described as Mystery Babylon, not simply Babylon. If it were just Babylon, you would be right, but the mystery indicates it has a hidden identity. Given that it is a Harlot, which is a great city, and the blood of the prophets has been shed there, then it logically follows that is Jerusalem.

Its not Babylon being described at all brother. Its the Harlot being described. Come see the JUDGMENT of the Harlot.

The Four Descriptors of the Harlot are this:

Rev. 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery,(COMMA) Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. (Babylon the Great is just one of four descriptions)

Its never described as MYSTERY BABYLON no more than its described as BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS, or BABYLON ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Its Mystery, (COMMA) Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots, Abominations of the Earth.

And then in verse 7 we are told the Mystery is going to be revealed unto us in verses 8-18.

Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore (WHY) didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

In verses 8-18 the Angel then proceeds to tell us the Mystery !! Its no longer a Mystery, which is why I understand it. I hear or pay attention to what the Angel is revealing. Its what I do, as a preacher of over 30 years called to prophecy, this is my business. I got it wrong for years, but the difference is I always stated this is my belief. I never say this is of the Holy Spirit until the Holy Spirit reveals something to me. Too many people claim to understand what Babylon the Great is and some even call it Mystery Babylon like I used to, but it can't be 200 different things, it can of course only mean one thing. We need to allow God, in these last days, when He wants to reveal this things, to do so, and so I blotted out all of my preconceived notions and said, "show me what all of this means God". And He did, as God always does if we seek it out, that is if its the right timing of course.

Babylon is that GREAT CITY, that is why it was a Mystery, it is a Satanic Kingdom of Satan, God explained the chain of command and how Satan uses worldly Kingdoms (Beast Heads) to do his will in this evil world, and he showed us that the Harlot or FALSE RELIGION has been co-mingled with FALSE GOVERNANCE from the beginning of time, thus the Harlot rides the Beasts back.

Thus the Government side (10 Kings) eventually kills off the Religious side (Harlot) and places a FALSE PROPHET/Beast over Religion in her place, this MAN demands that the world make an Image of the Beast and that all mankind WORSHIP the Beast as God !! There is no place for Witchcraft, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or any other Religion. That is also why the Beast chases the Jews into the Wilderness and comes after the Remnant Christian Church of Rev. 12:17, they are the Martyrs under the Alter in Rev. ch. 6 where the 5th Seal is mentioned.

Babylon stands for the Kingdom of Darkness, the principalities and rulers in high places Paul spoke about that we battle with. Thus it also stands for all the Kingdoms of this world who follow him.

That's the Mystery, or was the Mystery until the Angel revealed it.
 
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shilohsfoal

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This is where I would disagree. Earthly Jerusalem was cast out when the old covenant ended. The heavenly Jerusalem is where we come to now.



Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
Galatians 4:25-26,30

Heavenly Jerusalem is who has come to?Paul was writing to the church.Not those who dwell in disbelief.
The earthy old city of Jerusalem is still sitting on those ssame seven hills it was 2000 years ago.
 
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claninja

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Heavenly Jerusalem is who has come to?

The body of Christ.

Paul was writing to the church.

Correct. What is the church? The church is the body of Christ. The body of Christ is made up of those in faith. First it was the Jews, then the gentiles were grafted in. There is now no Jew or gentile because we are now one in Christ.

As no one inherits anything outside of Christ, only those in the body inherit the promises.

The earthy old city of Jerusalem is still sitting on those ssame seven hills it was 2000 years ago.

The old covenant ended. Is there a provision in the new covenant that states The body of Christ inherits earthly Jerusalem?
 
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