The seven kings

Revealing Times

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Do you really not understand hes talking about the people of Jerusalem? This is just utterly astounding to be honest, that you do not understand that, its mind boggling. And by the end time Israel will have REPENTED !! See below:

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Who is Jesus talking to? A city or its INHABITANTS? My goodness, this is simple man. Wake up man, get out of your doldrums, this is too important, we need to be factually correct, not guessing. So by your thesis Jesus is blaming a city here for killing the prophets !! And Jesus is saying when he returns a city is going to praise him as Lord !!

So substitute Jerusalem for the people anywhere you see Jerusalem mentioned because CITIES don't feel, cities do not become a Harlot etc. etc. The people were the Harlot as per Isaiah 1:21, the people are what Jesus is speaking about in Matt. 23:37-39. And the False Religions of the World is what John/Jesus is speaking about in Rev. chapter 17. Its the Religions that THE PEOPLES of the Whole World worship over God, and that by the way that is what made the inhabitants of Jerusalem a Harlot. They continued over and over again to worship false gods, time after time.
 
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Revealing Times

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You are losing your ability to distinguish between the symbol and the interpretation.

*[[Rev 17:1]] KJV* And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the JUDGMENT OF the GREAT harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

[THIS CHAPTER IS AN EXPOSITION OF lI will shew Thee WHO THE GREAT harlot IS...]


*[[Rev 17:7]] KJV* And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will TELL THEE the mystery of the WOMAN, and of the BEAST that carrieth her, which hath the SEVEN HEADS and TEN HORNS. [and of the waters ]

The symbol=the woman
The interpretation=the great city.
The symbol=beast.
The interpretation=Daniels 4th king, Rev. 13.
The symbol=7 heads
The interpretation=7 mountains
The symbol=10 horns,
The interpretation=10 kings yet to arise.
The symbol=the waters,
The interpretation=people, multitudes, nations and tongues.

The PuP
My thread goes IN DEPTH !!

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained
 
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Revealing Times

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The angel was clear. The woman he saw is the great city. But for some reason you keep calling it ALL false religion, which the angel did not call it.

Because the Harlot is NOT A CITY !! That is one of Four Descriptions !! The Harlot or FALSE RELIGION was co-mingled with Babylon and anyone that Googles Babylon will see 100's of Religions and 100's of Gods and demi-gods they worshiped in Babylon, that' the CLUE (Babylon the Great) not who the Harlot is !! Another clue is MYSTERY, another clue is Abominations of the Earth and another clue is Mother of Harlots. Put them all together and stop looking for a REAL CITY !!

Babylon and False Religion are NOTED as one and the same in essence !!

But the WOMAN (Harlot False Religion) has always ridden the back of False Governance under Satan. They have always been co-mingled. But the 10 Kings KILL HER OFF, at just the time the Beast comes forth to be Worshiped as God !! All Religions will be Destroyed at this very time.

Its Mystical Babylon.

Why did the Kings of Israel kill the Prophets? Go read? Its because they would say THUS SAITH THE LORD and many were killed because the Kings served False Gods and did not want to hear THUS SAITH THE LORD.

When Nathan told David thus saith the Lord you are that man, who of course killed Uriah, David repented because he was a man after Gods own heart, others killed the prophets instead. So its always FALSE RELIGION that killed the Prophets of old, or men led by FALSE RELIGION, because if they heard the voice of GOD (like David) they would not have killed the prophets !!

The Romans worshiped Zeus, they killed Christians. Antiochus Epiphanes killed the Jewish Saints of Israel. Islam has killed Christians for 1400 plus years.

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman (FALSE RELIGION'S OF MEN) drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

God is going to JUDGE ALL FALSE RELIGIONS and all the deaths caused by her on BOTH SIDES OF THE CROSS !! Why do you think John mentions both the Saints of old and the Christian Martyrs?

Jerusalem had nothing to do with Rome killing Christians NOR COULD IT HAVE. Jerusalem had nothing to do with the last 1400 years of Islamic murders of Christians NOR COULD IT HAVE.

Rev. 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

So the Kings of the earth committed "FORNICATION" with Jerusalem? That's just bizarre thinking to be truthful. Most of the so called Kings/Leaders of the earth have never been to Jerusalem. So how do they commit FORNICATION with the Harlot? Well the Kings of the Earth have delved into False Religion, even if that False Religion is Humanism. They are DRUNK with the Spirit of THIS WORLD, the World Jesus told us Christians that we must hate.

Jerusalem as the Harlot is nothing but a deceit by Satan.
 
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Revealing Times

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The angel is explaining what he was just shown.
Babylon the Great was what John SAW. So the Angel was REMINDING HIM.

The woman, who is the prostitute, who is the great city, is also Babylon the great
No its not, no more than its called the Mystery, Abominations of the Earth or The Mother of Harlots. Its one of FOUR DESCRIPTIONS. It might come to you one day.

AFTER the woman is killed by the 10 horns and beast, and angel comes down from heaven saying fallen, fallen is Babylon the great and identifies Babylon the great as a SHE:
Nowhere in Rev. 17 does the Angel say Babylon is fallen, is fallen, because Babylon in Rev. chapters 14, 16 and 18 is not the Harlot of Rev. ch. 17. Those three chapters are speaking about Satan's Kingdom of Darkness and power over this world as being BROKEN !! The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION being destroyed by the Kings in league with the Beast.

And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.
Revelation 18:2
We call cities and cars SHE......again, you guys want to pigeonhole Gods vocabulary. Babylon is FALSE GOVERNANCE under Satan. The Seven Heads of the BEASTS are all Cities or Kingdoms/Governments aren't they?

Jesus called the Pharisees sons of the devil:

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44
But Jerusalem is an INANIMATE OBJECT...LOL.

And they would be punished for the blood of the saints and prophets:

so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
Matthew 23:35

The PEOPLE..........Not the CITY !!

I agree that Babylon the great is the city that John saw. But i also believe that Jerusalem is Babylon the great, that is the harlot, as the angel says Babylon the great is fallen when the woman is destroyed by the beast and 10 horns

Babylon is a METAPHOR for Satan's Kingdoms of this world. God chose it because He foretold, Babylon would never be inhabited again. Its the Head of the Statue. Its stands in for Worldly Kingdoms under Satan's rule. It has nothing to do with the Harlot EXCEPT, they were both co-mingled at one time, and FALSE RELIGION (Harlot) had its greatest existence in Babylon.

The angel was clear. The woman he saw is the great city. But for some reason you keep calling it ALL false religion, which the angel did not call it.
Because THAT GREAT CITY was only Stamped on her forehead as Babylon the Great. She was not BABYLON. Its was a Description. She had her hey day at Babylon, that was her Zenith so to speak. Think FALSE RELIGION, think Babylon the Great.

But Babylon is not the Harlot, its just Tattooed on her Head.
 
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A71

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You do not understand the connection between a city and its citizens. It is the same root word. Civis. Same in Greek, polis = city / inhabitants of a city, polites = citizens of city.
When God calls somewhere Sodom, it is not about architecture or geographical location, it is about people.

Jerusalem is defined by the Levites. This is fundamental. Do you know this Revealing Times? Answer me short and straight, if you would be so kind
 
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PesachPup

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A thousand books cannot supersede the word of God. You need to rely more on the word than your "inspiration".
The origins of your error in this regard can be traced to Rev. 12. You know the scriptures well and know that this passage is rooted in Isa 66. You make the mistake that i did for far too many years in believing that the woman is Israel. Being blinded by my own understanding, i could not see what was plainly written on the page.
*[[Isa 66:6]] KJV* A voice of noise from the CITY, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
*[[Isa 66:7]] KJV* Before SHE travailed, SHE brought forth; before HER pain came, SHE was delivered of a man child.
*[[Isa 66:8]] KJV* Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as ZION travailed, SHE brought forth HER children.
*[[Isa 66:10]] KJV* Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with HER, all ye that love HER: rejoice for joy with HER, all ye that mourn for HER:

This is not a subjective interpretation. The woman who travails is Zion, Jerusalem. Because Jerusalem is the home for worship, the city of God, FOR the children of Israel, and God will save a remnant of them, it's easy to mistakenly call the woman Israel. Israel flees into the 4 winds. Not the wilderness. She will come back to the wilderness to meet with God face to face. But this takes place afterward. I don't have to tell you of the gathering of the elect... from the 4 winds of earth, from one end to the other. Matt 24:31 et al.
And i know you understand the desolation of Jerusalem by the little horn and the 10 kings kingdom. Pay attention here. The woman, JERUSALEM, flees into the wilderness. As you probably understand, Jerusalem is made desolate for the final 42 months. So, mystery, Babylon is mystery. Something that is hidden. Hidden in the wilderness. Mystery, Babylon is not Jerusalem as we all know it. She will be in another place. The wilderness. Now notice this.
*[[Rev 17:3]] KJV* So he carried me away in the spirit into the WILDERNESS: and I SAW a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

A woman in the wilderness. Mystery, Babylon. The hidden Jerusalem. I know you are aware of Micah 4

*[[Mic 4:6]] KJV* In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble HER that halteth, and I will gather HER that is driven out, and HER that I have afflicted;
*[[Mic 4:7]] KJV* And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
*[[Mic 4:8]] KJV* And thou, O tower of the flock, the STRONG HOLD of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the FIRST DOMINION; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
*[[Mic 4:9]] KJV* Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there NO KING in THEE ? is thy counsellor perished? for PANGS have taken thee as a WOMAN IN TRAVAIL.

*[[Mic 4:10]] KJV* Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou GO FORTH out of the CITY, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt GO EVEN to BABYLON; there shalt thou be delivered; THERE the LORD shall REDEEM THEE from the hand of thine enemies.

Mystery, Babylon, is Jerusalem dwelling on the wilderness. Awaiting her redemption. While, literal Jerusalem, lies in heaps.

*[[Jer 30:17]] KJV* For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is ZION, whom no man seeketh after.
*[[Jer 30:18]] KJV* Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the CITY shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

As you should also be aware of Jeremiah 30. This follows this:
*[[Jer 30:7]] KJV* Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
*[[Jer 30:14]] KJV* All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
*[[Jer 30:16]] KJV* Therefore all they that devour THEE shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil THEE shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon THEE will I give for a prey.
*[[Jer 30:17]] KJV* For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is ZION, whom no man seeketh after.
*[[Jer 30:18]] KJV* Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the CITY shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

Mystery Babylon, is Jerusalem in the wilderness.

Blessings
The PuP
 
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cfdude

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Good question.
I guess it depends on ones eschatological view point.

I believe the harlot is unfaithful old covenant Jerusalem who jesus promised would be punished for all the righteous blood shed.

So from that standpoint, the one who is, was present during the time of John. But unfortunately John doesn’t go any further than calling the one who is, a king. So the identity of the one who is, is not so clear.

35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:35-36

And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.
Revelation 17:6
And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”
Revelation 18:24
for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
Revelation 19:2
Oh absolutely, you are right on the money that Jerusalem is the harlot. No argument with you there. Praise God you can understand that! I have a huge list of scriptures proving the point too.
 
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cfdude

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A thousand books cannot supersede the word of God. You need to rely more on the word than your "inspiration".
The origins of your error in this regard can be traced to Rev. 12. You know the scriptures well and know that this passage is rooted in Isa 66. You make the mistake that i did for far too many years in believing that the woman is Israel. Being blinded by my own understanding, i could not see what was plainly written on the page.
*[[Isa 66:6]] KJV* A voice of noise from the CITY, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
*[[Isa 66:7]] KJV* Before SHE travailed, SHE brought forth; before HER pain came, SHE was delivered of a man child.
*[[Isa 66:8]] KJV* Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as ZION travailed, SHE brought forth HER children.
*[[Isa 66:10]] KJV* Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with HER, all ye that love HER: rejoice for joy with HER, all ye that mourn for HER:

This is not a subjective interpretation. The woman who travails is Zion, Jerusalem. Because Jerusalem is the home for worship, the city of God, FOR the children of Israel, and God will save a remnant of them, it's easy to mistakenly call the woman Israel. Israel flees into the 4 winds. Not the wilderness. She will come back to the wilderness to meet with God face to face. But this takes place afterward. I don't have to tell you of the gathering of the elect... from the 4 winds of earth, from one end to the other. Matt 24:31 et al.
And i know you understand the desolation of Jerusalem by the little horn and the 10 kings kingdom. Pay attention here. The woman, JERUSALEM, flees into the wilderness. As you probably understand, Jerusalem is made desolate for the final 42 months. So, mystery, Babylon is mystery. Something that is hidden. Hidden in the wilderness. Mystery, Babylon is not Jerusalem as we all know it. She will be in another place. The wilderness. Now notice this.
*[[Rev 17:3]] KJV* So he carried me away in the spirit into the WILDERNESS: and I SAW a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

A woman in the wilderness. Mystery, Babylon. The hidden Jerusalem. I know you are aware of Micah 4

*[[Mic 4:6]] KJV* In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble HER that halteth, and I will gather HER that is driven out, and HER that I have afflicted;
*[[Mic 4:7]] KJV* And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
*[[Mic 4:8]] KJV* And thou, O tower of the flock, the STRONG HOLD of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the FIRST DOMINION; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
*[[Mic 4:9]] KJV* Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there NO KING in THEE ? is thy counsellor perished? for PANGS have taken thee as a WOMAN IN TRAVAIL.

*[[Mic 4:10]] KJV* Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou GO FORTH out of the CITY, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt GO EVEN to BABYLON; there shalt thou be delivered; THERE the LORD shall REDEEM THEE from the hand of thine enemies.

Mystery, Babylon, is Jerusalem dwelling on the wilderness. Awaiting her redemption. While, literal Jerusalem, lies in heaps.

*[[Jer 30:17]] KJV* For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is ZION, whom no man seeketh after.
*[[Jer 30:18]] KJV* Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the CITY shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

As you should also be aware of Jeremiah 30. This follows this:
*[[Jer 30:7]] KJV* Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
*[[Jer 30:14]] KJV* All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
*[[Jer 30:16]] KJV* Therefore all they that devour THEE shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil THEE shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon THEE will I give for a prey.
*[[Jer 30:17]] KJV* For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is ZION, whom no man seeketh after.
*[[Jer 30:18]] KJV* Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the CITY shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

Mystery Babylon, is Jerusalem in the wilderness.

Blessings
The PuP

Oops, hit the wrong button.. will post in a bit
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Read this thread except for some of RT repeated posts.

I just love to watch futurists try to twist the scripture to support their forgone conclusion instead of allowing scripture to interpret scripture

The Bible teaches that a pure woman symbolizes God’s pure church which is faithful to her lover, Jesus:
scripture
Genesis 3:15 …’And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.’

Jeremiah 6:2 …’I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.’

2 Corinthians 11:2 …’For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.’

Ephesians 5:23 …’For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.’

Revelation 12:1 …’And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.’ … We start with a heavenly scene of this woman. Now from the Word of God, we can know with confidence what a woman in Bible prophecy represents.

Revelation 19:7 …’Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.’

And as a pure woman symbolizes in the Bible a pure church which is faithful to Jesus, so an impure woman represents an impure, or fallen, church which is unfaithful to Jesus:

Ezekiel 16:2, 15… ’Cause Jerusalem to know her abominations.” “Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot.’

James 4:4… ‘Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”

Revelation 17:1,2 … ‘Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’
In His service,
BibleAsk Team

( MATT21
5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them)

Bricks and mortar do not hear only the inhabitants of the city hear.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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REV 12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The Child is Jesus, if the woman represents a city then the City is Bethlehem not Jerusalem. And that does not fit the teaching that the woman represents Jerusalem.
 
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Revealing Times

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You do not understand the connection between a city and its citizens. It is the same root word. Civis. Same in Greek, polis = city / inhabitants of a city, polites = citizens of city.
When God calls somewhere Sodom, it is not about architecture or geographical location, it is about people.
Number 1, no one knows who the YOU is since you didn't reply to a post, so I will just assume its me since you three are steady giving each other likes like high school kids. :yawn:

That was exactly my point, if you read, but I imagine you just like posting, and skimming over other peoples posts. I don't reply to a post I haven't read, that's just weird, but I see people who I know do that all the time because they ask you to explain something you have already explained, like this above point you made.

The City is the PEOPLE, that is exactly the point I was making. Now who is God coming to destroy at the end via Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Who is God destroying with the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets and Seven Vials? The PEOPLE of Babylon (Dark Kingdom run by Satan on this Earth). Or all the Wicked inhabitants of all the earth. Not the PEOPLE of Jerusalem, whom God gathered back unto Israel/Jerusalem and breathed life back into them. NO, NO, NO !! The Scriptures say just the opposite of what God will do to THE PEOPLE of Jerusalem and Israel in the END TIMES if you would just read the Bible a little bit.

Zechariahh. 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariahh 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain (Blood of Jesus) opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

IN THAT DAY !! What day? Well of course in the day that Israel REPENTS !! And that happens before the First Seal is broken via Malachii 4:5-6.

Malachii 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

God is not going to DESTROY Jerusalem or the Jewish peoples He just spent years regathering unto Israel. Hes going to DESTROY the Harlot (All False Religions) and Babylon ( The Dark Kingdom of Satan). Lets see, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem with the Jewish peoples, and there will be NO RELIGIONS that worship and serve other Gods, and Satan will be LOCKED IN THE PIT. Look, this isn't even debatable. Babylon is Satan's Dark Kingdom on this earth. The Harlot is MEN WORSHIPING FALSE Gods. (Both will be DESTROYED.)

The Levites are the Priesthood.
 
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Revealing Times

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A thousand books cannot supersede the word of God. You need to rely more on the word than your "inspiration".
A million books can not supersede the word of God. I did the same lil' trick you tried to pull off. It doesn't work, just because you espoused this position still doesn't mean you understand the word of God does it?

The origins of your error in this regard can be traced to Rev. 12. You know the scriptures well and know that this passage is rooted in Isa 66. You make the mistake that i did for far too many years in believing that the woman is Israel. Being blinded by my own understanding, i could not see what was plainly written on the page.
*[[Isa 66:6]] KJV* A voice of noise from the CITY, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
*[[Isa 66:7]] KJV* Before SHE travailed, SHE brought forth; before HER pain came, SHE was delivered of a man child.
*[[Isa 66:8]] KJV* Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as ZION travailed, SHE brought forth HER children.
*[[Isa 66:10]] KJV* Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with HER, all ye that love HER: rejoice for joy with HER, all ye that mourn for HER:
For starters, I don't do errors, because those things that are MY UNDERSTANDINGS I call them as such, things I have deduced via logic, but have not been shown by the Holy Spirit, when the Holy Spirit shows me something, only then is it set in stone forevermore with me, so your error quip makes no sense. As per Rev. 12 you have yet to cite the SUPPOSED ERROR. Please do so first. Then we can discuss the above with some added depth as per your meaning of my Rev. 12 understanding, I don't think you know my Rev. 12 understanding.

This is not a subjective interpretation. The woman who travails is Zion, Jerusalem. Because Jerusalem is the home for worship, the city of God, FOR the children of Israel, and God will save a remnant of them, it's easy to mistakenly call the woman Israel. Israel flees into the 4 winds. Not the wilderness. She will come back to the wilderness to meet with God face to face. But this takes place afterward. I don't have to tell you of the gathering of the elect... from the 4 winds of earth, from one end to the other. Matt 24:31 et al.

It sir isn't subjective, and that is of course why I understand you to be wrong here. The Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel, not just Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem is a stand in for the Israeli PEOPLES, just like when Jesus used it on Matthew 23 when he said O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, he was speaking of the Israeli people as a whole with Jerusalem being her Capital city so to speak.

And its not a mistake, its a FACT. Read Genesis 37:9:

Gen. 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

So the CODE in Rev. ch. 12 leads us here, the SUN, MOON and 12 Stars are of course Israel.

Why do you leave off SCRIPTURE to try and make a point brother, that is not honest is it? Allow me to give the full scripture.

Matt. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Opp's, you left out where we are gathered from, HEAVEN, whence we went at the Rapture to Marry the Lamb. Then we return back with Jesus after an Angel gathers us from the four corners of Heaven. Come on man, you can not leave out whole words on purpose from scriptures !!

And i know you understand the desolation of Jerusalem by the little horn and the 10 kings kingdom. Pay attention here. The woman, JERUSALEM, flees into the wilderness. As you probably understand, Jerusalem is made desolate for the final 42 months. So, mystery, Babylon is mystery. Something that is hidden. Hidden in the wilderness. Mystery, Babylon is not Jerusalem as we all know it. She will be in another place. The wilderness. Now notice this.
*[[Rev 17:3]] KJV* So he carried me away in the spirit into the WILDERNESS: and I SAW a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Israel flees unto the Wilderness, its the Jewish Peoples who Flee Judea. The Angel REVEALED the Mystery in Rev. 17:7 saying let me show you the Mystery, then proceeds to do so in verses 8-18. Thus its no longer a Mystery. You are lost on this brother. Back up and start again with a BLANK MIND. The Wilderness in most instances in the bible means a PLACE OF SOLITUDE a place of quiet, a place away from the rest of the World. Even though this Wilderness Israel Flees to in Edom is I think Petra, and it is a PHYSICAL PLACE, its called Mountains by Jesus, but it has the exact same meaning as the word used for Wilderness in most cases, it will separate Israel from the rest of the WORLD, it will be a place of solitude, just like the Prophets sought. Except in this instance God will protect the Jews here for 1260 Days. These are just FACTS. The Women in 17:3 is False Religion being JUDGED.
 
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Revealing Times

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Read this thread except for some of RT repeated posts.

I just love to watch futurists try to twist the scripture to support their forgone conclusion instead of allowing scripture to interpret scripture
Which means 95 percent of Christendom right !! The others that believe that far out stuff, most never even go to Church. I think that is why they get into these far out kind of beliefs that just boggles my mind to be honest.


All of Revelation, past chapters 1-3 is FUTURE........Whoopeee.
 
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shilohsfoal

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That's funny, so did you stay up all night to come up with that convoluted thinking trying to justify a failed understanding? The Angel was VERY CLEAR. It fits ALL FALSE RELIGION which is all over the world. You guys just do not seem able to decipher Gods codes here because you get tunnel vision. You are still thinking in terms of OLD WAYS, Men's traditions before God was ready to reveal these deep truths.

Its Rome, its Jerusalem, its he RCC, its Islam, its America, its New York City, its Babylon proper etc. etc. etc. Its none of the above !! But whichever vein someone was in that seems to be their go to understanding. Well God says different, He actually has a meaning for all of this, for Rev. ch. 17 and Rev. ch. 18 that makes sense.

Rev. ch. 17 starts with the First Seal, the Beast seeks to destroy all Religions right off the bat. The 1/4 of the whole world that are killed are mostly Religious types who refuse to serve or worship the Beast as God. Its not the Christian Church who has been Raptured, it will be the Remnant Church who comes to Christ after the Rapture, the Jews who do not flee and of Course the Islamic hordes, along with other Religions.

Rev. ch. 18 also starts in Rev. ch. 6, the Plagues and 21 Judgments start with the First Seal also, its 21 Judgments on Mankind. It runs from Rev. ch. 6 to Rev. ch. 16.

Jerusalem is not going to be destroyed or burned, Jesus is going to be King of kings there for 1000 years. All nations will come up to Jerusalem to pay homage. Israel has REPENTED by the time the Beast takes over, why would God thus Judge a CITY when Israel has already REPENTED, this makes no sense whatsoever. But because that's what we first went with we got to keep going with it don't we !!



And what did John SEE in the VISION?

BABYLON THE GREAT tattooed on her forehead !!



Another IDEA to try to explain the inexplainable hey?

The MANY WATERS are the WHOLE WORLD. Jerusalem is not in OTHER NATIONS or on MANY WATERS. The MANY WATERS are the Nations, Tongues, Multitudes and Peoples.

Jerusalem is a Harlot, not as Gods Holy City but the people thereof, whereas Babylon stands for Satan's unholy Kingdom. The People of Jerusalem is what was being SPOKEN OF, not a city, not an inanimate object !!

The People were thus scattered, the people were thus BROUGHT BACK, and God has every intention to Bless Israel now....God did not regather Israel just to call them a Harlot and burn down Jerusalem. God has already punished Israel by this time and brought them back unto Israel, Hes not going to then turn on Israel and burn Jerusalem as you seemingly think, its just not going to happen. You just have on BLINDERS and you fail to see that BABYLON THE GREAT is that GREAT CITY John saw, because you have preconceived notions.

The angel was very clear.This requires wisdom to understand this verse.

Revelation 17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
 
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shilohsfoal

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A71

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Or Jerusalem above?
REV 12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The Child is Jesus, if the woman represents a city then the City is Bethlehem not Jerusalem. And that does not fit the teaching that the woman represents Jerusalem.
 
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A71

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I gave you a like. I know how frustrating it can be.
I joined this current of the thread late. Now we are talking, I am reading intently.

God never breathed life into Jerusalem. They went into Babylonian exile and then came back and rebuilt the temple.

I've been reading the Bible for 48 years, please don't patronize me.

You don't understand the seals.

God will destroy ALL false religious systems regardless of location.



The City is the PEOPLE, that is exactly the point I was making. Now who is God coming to destroy at the end via Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Who is God destroying with the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets and Seven Vials? The PEOPLE of Babylon (Dark Kingdom run by Satan on this Earth). Or all the Wicked inhabitants of all the earth. Not the PEOPLE of Jerusalem, whom God gathered back unto Israel/Jerusalem and breathed life back into them. NO, NO, NO !! The Scriptures say just the opposite of what God will do to THE PEOPLE of Jerusalem and Israel in the END TIMES if you would just read the Bible a little bit.

Zechariahh. 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariahh 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain (Blood of Jesus) opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

IN THAT DAY !! What day? Well of course in the day that Israel REPENTS !! And that happens before the First Seal is broken via Malachii 4:5-6.

Malachii 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

God is not going to DESTROY Jerusalem or the Jewish peoples He just spent years regathering unto Israel. Hes going to DESTROY the Harlot (All False Religions) and Babylon ( The Dark Kingdom of Satan). Lets see, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem with the Jewish peoples, and there will be NO RELIGIONS that worship and serve other Gods, and Satan will be LOCKED IN THE PIT. Look, this isn't even debatable. Babylon is Satan's Dark Kingdom on this earth. The Harlot is MEN WORSHIPING FALSE Gods. (Both will be DESTROYED.)

The Levites is the Priesthood.
 
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A71

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@RT

You quote Zechariah 12, but this simply proves that Jerusalem exists in some terrestrial form other than Jerusalem
6 and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

Viz...On the nations, as Babylon the Great City
 
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A million books can not supersede the word of God. I did the same lil' trick you tried to pull off. It doesn't work, just because you espoused this position still doesn't mean you understand the word of God does it?


For starters, I don't do errors, because those things that are MY UNDERSTANDINGS I call them as such, things I have deduced via logic, but have not been shown by the Holy Spirit, when the Holy Spirit shows me something, only then is it set in stone forevermore with me, so your error quip makes no sense. As per Rev. 12 you have yet to cite the SUPPOSED ERROR. Please do so first. Then we can discuss the above with some added depth as per your meaning of my Rev. 12 ynderstanding, I don't think you know my Rev. 12 understanding.



It sire isn't subjective, and that is of course why I understand you to be wrong here. The Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel, not just Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem is a stand in for the Israel PEOPLES, just like when Jesus used it on Matthew 23 when he said O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, he was speaking of the Israel people as a whole with Jerusalem being her Capital city so to speak.

And it not a mistake, its a FACT. Read Genesis 37:9:

Gen. 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

So the CODE in Rev. ch. 12 leads us here, the SUN, MOON and 12 Stars are of course Israel.

Why do you leave off SCRIPTURE to try and make a point brother, that is not honest is it? Allow me to give the full scripture.

Matt. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Opp's, you left out where we are gathered from, HEAVEN, whence we went at the Rapture to Marry the Lamb. Then we return back with Jesus after an Angel gathers us from the four corners of Heaven. Come on man, you can not leave out whole words on purpose from scriptures !!



Israel flees unto the Wilderness, its the Jewish Peoples who Flee Judea. The Angel REVEALED the Mystery in Rev. 17:7 saying let me show you the Mystery, then proceeds to do so in verses 8-18. Thus its no longer a Mystery. You are lost on this brother. Back up and start again with a BLANK MIND. The Wilderness in most instances in the bible means a PLACE OF SOLITUDE a place of quiet, a place away from the rest of the World. Even though this Wilderness Israel Flees to in Edom is I think Petra, and it is a PHYSICAL PLACE, its called Mountains by Jesus, but it has the exact same meaning as the word used for Wilderness in most cases, it will separate Israel from the rest of the WORLD, it will be a place of solitude, just like the Prophets sought. Except in this instance God will protect the Jews here for 1260 Days. These are just FACTS. The Women in 17:3 is False Religion being JUDGED.
You should throw your logic out the window when it comes to reinterpreting what the scriptures say and don't say.
1. Concerning Isa 66. Zion is equated with Jerusalem and secondly it would be an oxymoron to say that Zion refers to the people of Israel when it specifically says that "for as soon as Zion travailed, SHE brought forth her children.
2. Joseph's dream involved 11 stars and the sun &moon, not 12, with the vision interpreted to mean Joseph would one day rule over his 11 brothers and his mother and father representing the sun & moon.
3. You might want to rethink your understanding of the 4 winds when it comes to the following:
*[[Dan 8:8]] KJV* Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the FOUR WINDS of HEAVEN.
*[[Dan 11:4]] KJV* And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the FOUR WINDS of HEAVEN; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
*[[Eze 5:12]] KJV* A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into ALL THE WINDS, and I will draw out a sword after them.
4. You have been asked repeatedly to supply a scriptural basis for believing that the woman/ harlot represents "all false religions", but you don't, because you can't. It is dangerous ground to reject scripturally supported positions in favor of personal "understandings", which includes where you think the wilderness is. You lack understanding of the scriptures. Ezekiel 20 provides a clear picture of "Israel" being scattered into all the countries of the world BEFORE she is brought back TO the wilderness to meet with the LORD, face too face. Your conceitedness is getting the best of you.
4. Micah 4, says that the daughter of Zion shall go to dwell in Babylon. There are numerous places in scripture that symbolically uses a woman to represent a city and the people who worship there.
5. The use of the symbolic "harlot city" is used to convey a forsaking of the truth. There has only been one city recognized for truth in worship, Jerusalem. Why is it that you see the importance of Israel in understanding Rev. 17, but miss the fact of where true worship has been ordained? The people of Israel have worshipped many false gods and religions, but i have my doubts about connecting her with ALL false religions. Jerusalem is the one who has played the harlot with the one and only true God. Jerusalem has slain the true prophets of God. Not false religion. I've been where you are at with "understanding" Rev. 17 nigh unto thirty years, all the while without scripture to support that understanding. You are right about Israel's subjection unto the 7 kingdoms of Rev. 17, but it's not the kingdoms that they were in subjection to, but the gods that they served that kept them in subjection to another king, instead of her own. We didn't disagree on what is meant by the wilderness, contrary to your attempt to say otherwise. Going to Petra, in the wilderness, is another one of your "understandings" that are without scriptural backing. I will at least commend you for saying that you "think" that it is there where the woman flees, instead of "understanding" it to be so. You keep yourself from understanding the deep things of God, kept secret from the very foundation of the world, by holding onto unsubstantiated "truths".
The PuP
 
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Revealing Times

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The angel was very clear.This requires wisdom to understand this verse.

Revelation 17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
And you most certainly do not understand how to decode Revelation. You repeat the same thing over and over. Jesus tells me to stop casting pearls...........

Revelation 17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

I wonder why its so difficult for some people to understand something so simple and straight toward as this verse.Its as if they simple can't take any knowledge from scripture.Some people can believe the most unbiblical tales but can understand a simple verse like this.

You can't eve get that the Harlot and Babylon are TWO DIFFERENT Entities.

I gave you a like. I know how frustrating it can be.
I joined this current of the thread late. Now we are talking, I am reading intently.

God never breathed life into Jerusalem. They went into Babylonian exile and then came back and rebuilt the temple.

I've been reading the Bible for 48 years, please don't patronize me.

You don't understand the seals.

God will destroy ALL false religious systems regardless of location.
Its not frustrating to me, it was not frustrating to the prophets to preach the truth. I am amused. I see this all the time, 200 different interpretations of Babylon, the Harlot, etc. etc. etc. Just like when Jesus was come to earth as God in flesh, they were saying, where is God. LOL. I understand exactly what is going on. I see people who follow men and men's traditions.

I understand the Seals perfectly, Jesus breaks them at the Midway point of the 70th Week. The Ant-Christ and his 10 Kings destroys all the FALSE RELIGIONS, God places this in his heart:

Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The whole Chapter is about the JUDGMENT of the Harlot. She gets KILLED OFF. It goes hand in hand with the Beasts DESIRE (God put it in heir hearts) to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! God gave this to me two years ago via the Holy Spirit, correcting a BLOG I had that said different. Now what the difference here? I listened to correction, I was told I was WRONG after studying for a couple of years on the subject. It was like the Holy Spirit said, hey Ron, that blog you just wrote, well ITS WRONG.

Only those willing to be wrong sometimes can hear Gods voice. I had it all worked out where this was Rome, and the Holy Spirit was like NOPE, its not Rome, its not the RCC, its not Islam per se, its not NYC, its not America, its not Babylon proper nor Jerusalem. None of that is there it all, that just MEN'S IMAGINATIONS, read it again and tell me what John actually saw in the VISION Ron.

Boom, he saw Babylon the Great. And I knew Babylon would never be inhabited again. So I knew God was using it as a Metaphor for something, BUT WHAT? Then it was like God was moving the pages because I saw Rev. ch. 16 right there, and guess what, it shows what God sees as Babylon !!

Rev. 16:19 And the great city (Jerusalem/Earthquake) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Who are the CITIES OF THE NATIONS that fall? The ones God sees as BABYLON?

Well look above, the Kings of the East come forth and the COUNTRIES of the WHOLE WORLD are ENTICED by three Demon Spirits to come forth to Armageddon. So who are the NATIONS that fall?

The Whole World !! So who is Babylon as seen by God? The Whole World !! BUT WHY? Its Satan's Dark Kingdom, he told Jesus in Luke ch. 4 that all of the Kingdoms of this world was his to do as he pleased with. That's why the Dragon is mentioned in Rev. 12 and the BEAST HEADS have Crowns on them, because the Dragon is the prince over them all. In Rev. 13 the CROWNS are on the 10 Kings because its the Anti-Christ that's being spoken of.

So I am not just guessing, I used to guess, when the Holy Spirit reveals his truths, I really don't care what anyone else thinks of these truths. I just spread the Gospel of Christ.
 
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