All Israel is saved

[Soar Like and Eagle]

It has ruffled my feathers because to the Christian who does not know the horrendous effects of the idolatry of the ancient world and thinks idolatry is just about any sin has no concept whatsoever of what God has done in the earth thus far. Thereby no concept of what he can or will do in the future. We are no different than ancient Rome. Hear it all the time on these threads.

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who looks to God for help.



Romans 3:9 (MSG) So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

There's nobody living right, not even one,
nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
They've all taken the wrong turn;
they've all wandered down blind alleys.
No one's living right;
I can't find a single one.
Their throats are gaping graves,
their tongues slick as mudslides.
Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
They open their mouths and pollute the air.
They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
Don't know the first thing about living with others.
They never give God the time of day.
This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin.

 

[Buzz_B]

You give Satan far to much power. Nothing happens outside of God's will

Nothing does happen outside of God's power to
do something about it. And since sin, God is able to even use the wicked ones to the advantage of those who love him. But you are really off the mark to say that nothing happens outside God's will and saying that makes you responsible for all who hate and malign God.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

It does not matter what either of us think for what we think will not change the reality. Adam did have free-will for no man can love without they have free-will. Love apart from free-will is mere compulsion.

other than the above I have no problem with freewill.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

You give Satan far to much power. Nothing happens outside of God's will

You give Satan far to much power. Nothing happens outside of God's will

Yep, and it was God's sovereign will to give mankind power over Satan. So to the extent that Satan has power on earth is the extent that man gives it to him.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Nothing does happen outside of God's power to
do something about it. And since sin, God is able to even use the wicked ones to the advantage of those who love him. But you are really off the mark to say that nothing happens outside God's will and saying that makes you responsible for all who hate and malign God.

So are you saying there is all who hate or evil that God is helpless to control? is there a power greater than God who controls evil/hate etc and God is helpless?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Yep, and it was God's sovereign will to give mankind power over Satan. So to the extent that Satan has power on earth is the extent that man gives it to him.

Nope it is God who gives Satan the power. Little carnal man has very little power compared to the God of the universe. Show me where man or Satan has more power than God? Chapter and verse please?

 

[Buzz_B]

Freewill is not even scripture word when it comes to salvation? Did I say anything about love? You need to re-read my statement.

But freedom is spoken of in the Scriptures and what the Scriptures has to say about that freedom is related to the idea of freedom of will.

I detect signs that I need to give you a bit of space and allow some of your comments to hang for a while while you think things further through. That used to happen to me, too.

 

[Buzz_B]

So are you saying there is all who hate or evil that God is helpless to control? is there a power greater than God who controls evil/hate etc and God is helpless?

You are just arguing for the sake of having something to say now.

I will give you a rest.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

So are you saying there is all who hate or evil that God is helpless to control? is there a power greater than God who controls evil/hate etc and God is helpless?

Saying just what I said. Even though God has all the power he needs to do anything he gave man power over Satan. The extent of Satan's power in the earth is the extent man gives him that power.
Behold I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions ans over ALL the power of the enemy. Whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven.
Nothing has ever changed. Satan is bound in the heavens to do his dirty work if he cannot find a place in the hearts of people, cultures and nations.
Remember the scripture when Jesus sent the 70 out to preach, teach, heal, raise the dead? the came back rejoicing and Jesus said: I beheld Satan fall as lighting from heaven. Jesus was telling them that the way Satan will be dethroned in the world is through what he sent those seventy to do.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

But freedom is spoken of in the Scriptures and what the Scriptures has to say about that freedom is related to the idea of freedom of will.

I detect signs that I need to give you a bit of space and allow some of your comments to hang for a while while you think things further through. That used to happen to me, too.

How is carnal man free? He did not choose to be born in a body of sin and death? He is a slave to sin and a dead spiritual man cannot freely choose God for he is dead to the realm of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

Salvation is a spiritual experience

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You are just arguing for the sake of having something to say now.

I will give you a rest.

Not at all. God is sovereign do you believe this or not? Or is there a sovereign power greater than God who controls evil?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Saying just what I said. Even though God has all the power he needs to do anything he gave man power over Satan. The extent of Satan's power in the earth is the extent man gives him that power.
Behold I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions ans over ALL the power of the enemy. Whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven.
Nothing has ever changed. Satan is bound in the heavens to do his dirty work if he cannot find a place in the hearts of people, cultures and nations.
Remember the scripture when Jesus sent the 70 out to preach, teach, heal, raise the dead? the came back rejoicing and Jesus said: I beheld Satan fall as lighting from heaven. Jesus was telling them that the way Satan will be dethroned in the world is through what he sent those seventy to do.

God gave Satan the mission of eating t dust. We are dust. That is where Satan's power is in the dust realm, the carnality of man. That is his food. Satan did not take that power from God, God gave him that power in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Buzz_B]

How is carnal man free? He did not choose to be born in a body of sin and death? He is a slave to sin and a dead spiritual man cannot freely choose God for he is dead to the realm of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

Salvation is a spiritual experience

What causes carnal man to be a sinner?

The answer to your question comes first in correctly understanding that, but for now you are in the flight or fight mode and oporating on too much emotion to make it worth my time to explain it to you how it works.

 

[Buzz_B]

God gave Satan the mission of eating t dust. We are dust. That is where Satan's power is in the dust realm, the carnality of man. That is his food. Satan did not take that power from God, God gave him that power in the Garden of Eden.

Are you a Muslim?

I have know hundreds of them that think as you do.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

What causes carnal man to be a sinner?

The answer to your question comes first in correctly understanding that, but for now you are in the flight or fight mode and oporating on too much emotion to make it worth my time to explain it to you how it works.

There is no emotion here. I asked you a serious question which it sounds like you are not equipped to answer? What caused mankind to be a sinner. Carnality. Being a dust man. God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. This was all God's plan for Adam to fall into the realm of sin and death. Without a fall there was no need for a savior and God had a savior before He had a sinner. The whole process of the Garden of Eden was totally God's plan.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Are you a Muslim?

I have know hundreds of them that think as you do.

Now you trying to insult me?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Are you a Muslim?

I have know hundreds of them that think as you do.

Something weird is a foot.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

God gave Satan the mission of eating t dust. We are dust. That is where Satan's power is in the dust realm, the carnality of man. That is his food. Satan did not take that power from God, God gave him that power in the Garden of Eden.

Stupid stuff. I’m through.

 

[Buzz_B]

Now you trying to insult me?

No, it was an honest question. I have a very broad scope of experience with different faiths and I honestly do see much similarity between things the many Muslims I have shared conversation with face to face have told me they believe. You see, I do not just speak to people on the web. I talk to people person to person on a regular basis similar to how Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons do. I actually prefer face to face conversations as I do much better in that area of witnessing about God to people.

You no doubt are one who believes that God creates all evil, am I right?

 

[Buzz_B]

There is no emotion here. I asked you a serious question which it sounds like you are not equipped to answer?

Will you listen and try to understand what I say if I answer?

What caused mankind to be a sinner. Carnality. Being a dust man. God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. This was all God's plan for Adam to fall into the realm of sin and death.

You are correct that the dust has special meaning in the Scriptures. You just need a bit of help to better appreciate that it is a mere analogy and not literal. Much of what we read is mere analogy rather than literal. It works the same way i described about abstracts. Abstracts are a form of analogy.

Without a fall there was no need for a savior and God had a savior before He had a sinner. The whole process of the Garden of Eden was totally God's plan.

It is true there was no need for a savior before sin, but where in the Bible do you read that God planned that man should sin? Why would God call man wayward if God planned that man should sin? Or do you believe that God planned for Adam to sin and then for no one else to sin? You see, there are too many snags and inconsistencies to what you are saying.