All Israel is saved

[JIMINZ]

The overcomer, the firstfruits, the remnant, Mt Zion, the Tabernacle of David these are all the same. God's elect

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Christians?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

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Christians?

There are two groups of people I the book of Revelation when it comes to believers; those who overcome (God’s elect) and everyone else.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Christians are those before the throne not overcomers

The Book of Revelation is the most spiritual book in the entire Bible and it not written to the lost, the heathen or the soulish man. Most soulish men may be religious and can no hear the spiritual message in the book of Revelation. Those who are hearing the book of revelation are not the lost, not the religious; but God's elect.

 

[JIMINZ]

There are two groups of people I the book of Revelation when it comes to believers; those who overcome (God’s elect) and everyone else.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Christians are those before the throne not overcomers

The Book of Revelation is the most spiritual book in the entire Bible and it not written to the lost, the heathen or the soulish man. Most soulish men may be religious and can no hear the spiritual message in the book of Revelation. Those who are hearing the book of revelation are not the lost, not the religious; but God's elect.

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So these people, being Christians, are they also the Elect of God Jews?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

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So these people, being Christians, are they also the Elect of God Jews?

Read the verses there are those on the throne and before the throne. There is absolutely nothing bad about either. God's elect will rule and reign for they are on the throne or in His court. They will be Kings and Priest for the remainder of all who God never called.

The great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, are christian all those who were never called. Look at the number in red.

 

[mathinspiration]

This ethnic Jews would mean people who are also distant relatives of Jewish people or are all believers will all have Jewish blood eventually.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

This ethnic Jews would mean people who are also distant relatives of Jewish people or are all believers will all have Jewish blood eventually.

This has nothing to do with what God is going in the ages to come? I see Israel more than the Jews who were just one tribe. We are speaking of Spiritual Zion, Israel not physical. Sands of the sea (natural Israel) Star in the heaven (Spiritual Israel)

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

In the Old order before Mt Zion the priest was named Ichabod which means the glory had departed. If you read how the ark was taken to the enemies camp because the glory had departed. Same with the religious system the glory has departed.


Mount Zion or The Tabernacle of David; here was a small tent where the Ark of God was brought to Mount Zion/Sion; how many times is this name mentioned in the NT. Zion was mentioned 152 times in OT; where Sion was mention 7 times in NT; sure this was David’s home Solomon etc; but is also a symbolism.


Zion was the natural home of King David who is a type of Christ in Natural Jerusalem. Mt Zion was the head of natural Kingdom; just as Spiritual Mt Zion is the Spiritual high place of Christ in the book of Revelation. David did not need to go to a priest; let alone a high priest to visit the Ark (or the glory of God) it was in a tent or tabernacle on his back porch at Mt Zion. This is a beautiful type which tells us myriads of what God is tying to tell us in the Spirit of the Word.


David was king; He was God’s anointed King; not like Saul who was also anointed by God; but chosen by the people; like many ministries in the church (little c) realm today. David was one of those special people God called, anointed and was one after God’s own heart. David lived in Jerusalem and Mount Zion (Sion); That is where the earthly anointed King lived and all His court; what a wonderful type of the ruler ship of the spiritual Mount Zion.


When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.


2 Samuel 6:

14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD


Point being God is going to reestablish the Tabernacle of David in a called out people to become kings and priest unto God for the remainder of God’s people he has not called.

 

[claninja]

A remnant is a small piece

Agree, Paul was a part of this Jewish remnant during his generation that would be saved

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
Romans 11:1-2,5

The sands of the sea speaks of natural Israel

Does scripture say this, or is it your interpretation?

the stars in the heaven speaks of spiritual Israel.

Does scripture say this, or is your interpretation?

Your math does not add up.

It’s not my math, it's Pauls:

even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Romans 9:24

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27


Spiritual Israel in the time of Paul was the gentiles and remnant israel.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Agree, Paul was a part of this Jewish remnant during his generation that would be saved

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
Romans 11:1-2,5



Does scripture say this, or is it your interpretation?



Does scripture say this, or is your interpretation?



It’s not my math, it Pauls:

even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Romans 9:24

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27


Spiritual Israel in the time of Paul was the gentiles and remnant israel.

It is differently my interpretation but you tell me what it means?
Saved? Are you speaking full salvation or justification of faith. The remnant I see as full salvation for they are God's elect. You point out only a remnant of them will be saved which really limits Jesus blood. Scripture also says
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

As well as the convenient God made with Israel so what I see is two different things God is doing not one he is speaking of His remnant and all of Israel which is all people.
Genesis 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore[/b]; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How many millions of grains of sand can you put in your two hands at the sea shore; how many stars can you count on a cold winter day; and that only the ones you can see. Just think how many grains of sand in a dump truck?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16 "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.'

Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

Amos 9:1 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David (Zion/remnant/ firstfruits) that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: (God's Spiritual temple)
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. (time frame)
14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.


15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.







Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.



Latin Vulgate
15:17 ut requirant ceteri hominum Dominum et omnes gentes super quas invocatum est nomen meum dicit Dominus faciens haec

King James Version
15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

American Standard Version
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,

Bible in Basic English
15:17 So that the rest of men may make search for the Lord, and all the Gentiles on whom my name is named,

Darby's English Translation
15:17 so that the residue of men may seek out the Lord, and all the nations on whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who does these things

Douay Rheims
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who doth these things.

Noah Webster Bible
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Weymouth New Testament
15:17 In order that the rest of mankind may earnestly seek the Lord--even all the nations which are called by My name,'

World English Bible
15:17 That the rest of men may seek after the Lord; All the Gentiles who are called by my name, Says the Lord, who does all these things.

Young's Literal Translation
15:17 that the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the nations, upon whom My name hath been called, saith the Lord, who is doing all these things.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

That the residue of men - This verse is quoted literally from the Septuagint, and differs in some respects from the Hebrew. The phrase, “the residue of men,” here is evidently understood, both by the Septuagint and by James, as referring to others than Jews, to the Gentiles the rest of the world - implying that many of them would be admitted to the friendship and favor of God. The

And all the Gentiles - Heb. all the pagan; that is, all who were not Jews. This was a clear prediction that other nations were to be favored with the true religion, and that without any mention of their conforming to the rites of the Jewish people.

Bibliography
Barnes, Albert. "Commentary on Acts 15:17". "Barnes' Notes on the New Testament". https:Acts 15 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible. 1870.

"This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of hosts. Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it." (Zechariah 4:6-7).

Not only was there a literal fulfillment of this Scripture, in Zerubbabel's day, but it also holds within it a PROPHETIC WORD, of the greater temple being built, and the establishment of the NEW COVENANT, of which Jesus Christ is both the Chief Cornerstone, and the Capstone. He is both Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and without Him there would be no LIVING TEMPLE established. He is THE ALL!

The Dictionary defines a headstone as: the principle stone in a foundation, the cornerstone. JESUS CHRIST IS THAT STONE! Peter writes this very clearly, "To Whom we come, as unto a Living Stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious."
(1 Peter 2:4). Without this Stone, the next verse would never have been written. "You also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (v. 5). All that we are, all that we shall ever become to His praise, is BY JESUS CHRIST. We are His workmanship, and we are to be conformed to His image. "Wherefore also it is contained in the Scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a CHIEF CORNERSTONE, elect, precious: and he that believes on Him shall not be confounded." (v. 6).


"This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of hosts. Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it." (Zechariah 4:6-7).


Revelation 11:2
But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


Why would God leave out the “court which is without the temple” in a natural physical temple?

 

[claninja]

It is differently my interpretation but you tell me what it means?

This is Hebrew parallelism. The stars do not mean spiritual Israel and the sand natural Israel. They both mean the same thing: that Abraham will have many offspring. To separate them is to add meaning that isn’t there.

17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore[

You point out only a remnant of them will be saved which really limits Jesus blood.

Then I guess it’s isaiah that limits the blood of Jesus

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27

Scripture also says
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

And it also says not all Israel is israel

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
Romans 9:6

As well as the convenient God made with Israel so what I see is two different things God is doing not one he is speaking of His remnant and all of Israel which is all people

Your right in that he is doing 2 things:
1. Saving all Israel by saving only the remnant, as only the remnant is true Israel.
2. Destroying the majority of Israel, that is not true Israel:
And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”
Romans 9:29

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

This is Hebrew parallelism. The stars do not mean spiritual Israel and the sand natural Israel. They both mean the same thing: that Abraham will have many offspring. To separate them is to add meaning that isn’t there.




Then I guess it’s isaiah that limits the blood of Jesus


And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27



And it also says not all Israel is israel

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
Romans 9:6



Your right in that he is doing 2 things:
1. Saving all Israel by saving only the remnant, as only the remnant is true Israel.
2. Destroying the majority of Israel, that is not true Israel:
And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”
Romans 9:29

God always hides his deep Spiritual Word. Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

You are correct it is Hebrew parallelism and there is Greek parallelism as well. It is a hidden spiritual language the Bible is pregnant with. but you are wrong to say it is the same thing. How can sand and stars mean the same please explain? God does not write two things in His divine word to mean the same thing especially when we both know there is a natural mystery here and a spiritual mystery to be revealed. 1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

NT:5178 a tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of
No your understanding limits the blood of Jesus because nothing limits that precious blood.

Jesus even preached the gospel to Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

preaching.

From kerusso; a proclamation (especially of the gospel; by implication, the gospel itself) -- preaching.

see GREEK kerusso

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

What an amazing spiritual example than stars or a natural carnal example as sand. Adam is a dust man formed from the dust of the earth and made a living soul. Jesus is the bright and morning star.
Yet in Ps. 147:4 we read that "GOD telleth the number of the stars; HE calleth them all by their names." God is not only able to number the stars- these billions of billions of blazing suns- but He calls each of them by name--He has ascribed a nature, a power, a purpose to each!

Psalm 19, "The heavens declare the glory of God." and the firmament sheweth his handiwork.

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge. There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world (Ps. 19:1-4).

God's Word declares there is a vast different in the dust realm compared to the stars

Job 38:6 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Stars speak of the realm of the Spirit this is not my opinion I just posted verses from God's Word that declare this.

 

[claninja]

You are correct it is Hebrew parallelism and there is Greek parallelism as well. It is a hidden spiritual language the Bible is pregnant with. but you are wrong to say it is the same thing. How can sand and stars mean the same please explain?

Definitely not wrong. Let's use scripture to interpret scripture.

1.)Natural (ethnic) Israel in the time of Moses was compared to number of the stars of heaven. Moses stated "this day", not a future one, that Israel had been multiplied and compared in number to the stars of heaven:
Deuteronomy 1:10
The LORD your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are this day like the stars of heaven in number.

2.) Natural (ethnic) Israel and Judah were also compared to the number of sand on the seashore.
1 Kings 4:20
20Judah and Israel were as numerous as the sand that is on the seashore in abundance; they were eating and drinking and rejoicing.

The "stars in heaven" and "sands of the seashore" are used to describe in a metaphorical way how many descendants will come from Abraham. You are putting your interpretation into the meaning of stars being spiritual and sand meaning natural. Again this is classic Hebrew parallelism, where 2 different descriptions are used to mean the same thing.

Here is another example of Hebrew parallelism, where something is described twice in 2 different ways, but means the exact same thing:
Psalm 24:1-2
The earth is the LORD’S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.
For He has founded it upon the seas And established it upon the rivers.

No your understanding limits the blood of Jesus because nothing limits that precious blood.

It literally says only a remnant will be saved.

So you're a universalist?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Natural (ethnic) Israel as you call them are God’s chosen people and yes both considered natural and spiritual does not matter what physical time for God’s will is timeless and spiritual especially when it comes to His chosen people. Did you find another example of the nations around Israel spoken of in these terms? So yes… Israel had been multiplied and compared in number to the stars of heaven which will be spiritual in the fact of God’s timing.

Deuteronomy 1:10
The LORD your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are this day like the stars of heaven in number.

2.) Natural (ethnic) Israel and Judah were also compared to the number of sand on the seashore.
1 Kings 4:20
20Judah and Israel were as numerous as the sand that is on the seashore in abundance; they were eating and drinking and rejoicing.

Yes again we have a natural Israel and a Spiritual Israel.

Again there will be a new heaven and a new earth and the new heaven will not be carnal we are speaking of the realm of God knew and the earth has always been the Lord even the natural earth. So what is your point?

How can we carnal human beings learn what spiritual is but by God showing us something physical but as an example of the spiritual. Take the Baby goat in Matthew 25. It cannot be the loss because a goat is a clean animal according to the Law of Moses. So a baby goat is a immature believer.

Another examples in Revelation we find the HEAVEN, EARTH, and SEA. These are, of course, symbolical and prophetical terms in the moat spiritual book ever written the Book of Revelation!
The lowest realm of these three spiritual realms is the sea. In the book of Revelation there are a number of examples that are the sea: notice these examples do not come from natural understanding but from God’s Word, but better source do we have then God’s very Word to understand the deepest most spiritual book in scripture.

“And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and a third part of the sea became blood.” “I stood upon the sand of the sea, and I saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns.” “And the sea gave up the dead that were in it.” “Woe to the inhabiters of the sea, for the devil is come down unto you.” “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth…and there was no more sea.”

In the Bible the sea is a type of the turbulent nature and inner storms of the Adamic man. Isaiah wrote these inspired words: Isa. 57:20-21 “The wicked are like the troubled sea, which cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt. There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked”

Jude 13 “These are raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame”


John, on the isle of Patmos, had a vision of a great harlot sitting on many waters. The angel revealed the meaning of the many waters, saying, “the waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues” (Rev. 17:15).


The natural sea is a great deep, an abyss (Gen. 1:2; 7:11; 8:2; Deut. 8:7; 33:13).


The Psalmist wrote of this abyss of the wickedness of man, “They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart is D-E-E-P (an abyss)” (Ps. 64:6).


The beast speaks of our carnal beastly nature.


Yes Jerusalem is a real city, but like Mount Zion and all these symbolisms to include the pearly gate and the streets paved with gold is not literal but spiritual in nature.


Gold speaks of divine life, Jerusalem is the city where divine authority reigns, Zion is where the Ark of God sat (Tabernacle of David/Acts 15:16) where the King and his court dwells, yes these we all once natural examples where king David once lived and walked; but God is trying to show us something deep, beyond that which is natural.

 

[Blade]

Amen.. what is "all Israel". Fact as it is right now anyone that does not believe in trust in Yeshua as lord as the only way to the Father.. Jewish or not will be lost. Since He chose them to take His word to the world .. they failed. Yet Christ came to His own 1st.

Does GOD view Israel as flesh and blood? What was MADE new in you that believe in Jesus? How is that which the Father made new.. different then ANYONE else that confess Yeshua as lord? Yes.. some are org of the vine...but YESHUA is still the VINE. One HAS to believe in HIM to be saved. As it is right now. Whats coming... i can not say about that.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Another point about the remnant. God has always had his elect as well as a chosen people. Moses, David, Abraham etc were God's elected and He always
had a greater message for these called out and chosen people. I love the verse:

Psalm 103:7

He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

Moses knew God face to face; not like the children of Israel who knew only God’s acts. The blind lead the blind in religion today; they know only the acts…

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Amen.. what is "all Israel". Fact as it is right now anyone that does not believe in trust in Yeshua as lord as the only way to the Father.. Jewish or not will be lost. Since He chose them to take His word to the world .. they failed. Yet Christ came to His own 1st.

Does GOD view Israel as flesh and blood? What was MADE new in you that believe in Jesus? How is that which the Father made new.. different then ANYONE else that confess Yeshua as lord? Yes.. some are org of the vine...but YESHUA is still the VINE. One HAS to believe in HIM to be saved. As it is right now. Whats coming... i can not say about that.

I disagree. God is not calling the whole world now. If you are not called you cannot come.

 

[Deadworm]

In Romans 11:5, 7 Paul distinguishes "the elect" as the faithful "remnant" (Jewish Christians) from the rest of ethnic Israel whose hearts "were hardened." Then in 11:11 Paul tells us that God intends Gentile salvation to be a means of provoking Israel's hardened hearts to a "jealousy" that leads to their conversion. Then Paul's universalist mindset prompts him to ask us to envision what an astounding, turnaround--the full inclusion of ethnic Israel--would mean:
"Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean (12)!"

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I glorify my ministry 14 in order to make my own people jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead!

The hearts of the faithful remnant, Jewish Christians, have not been hardened, but the hardening of the rest of Israel will removed through the salvation of all the Gentiles:

"I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved (25-26)."
Any illusion we might have that this universal salvation will be restricted to the elect is removed by 11:32: "For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all." Divine "imprisonment" here means that the Fall was part of God's plan independently of poor human choices. The second "all" stands parallel to the first "all," so that both are universal in scope. The implication is stunning: God's intention has always bee to use our inevitable disobedience as a vehicle to show all humanity mercy by His grace. Paul does not make clear how this "mystery" will unfold. Will all ethnic Israel be converted when Gentiles stream into Israel after Christ's return? Will the process of saving everyone, Jew and Gentile, continue after our death? We are not told here.

Paul now grounds this divine intent to save everyone in the purpose of creation:
"For from him and through Him and back to Him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen (36)."It is the Creator's plan that everything derives from Him and everything, including the unrighteous, is destined to return to Him.
The grand implication is a relentless divine loving pursuit to reclaim the unrighteous in this life and after death. Paul is not in the mood here to consider whether and how many will resist His relentless offer of mercy.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

In Romans 11:5, 7 Paul distinguishes "the elect" as the faithful "remnant" (Jewish Christians) from the rest of ethnic Israel whose hearts "were hardened." Then in 11:11 Paul tells us that God intends Gentile salvation to be a means of provoking Israel's hardened hearts to a "jealousy" that leads to their conversion. Then Paul's universalist mindset prompts him to ask us to envision what an astounding, turnaround--the full inclusion of ethnic Israel--would mean:
"Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean (12)!"

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I glorify my ministry 14 in order to make my own people jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead!

The hearts of the faithful remnant, Jewish Christians, have not been hardened, but the hardening of the rest of Israel will removed through the salvation of all the Gentiles:

"I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved (25-26)."
Any illusion we might have that this universal salvation will be restricted to the elect is removed by 11:32: "For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all." Divine "imprisonment" here means that the Fall was part of God's plan independently of poor human choices. The second "all" stands parallel to the first "all," so that both are universal in scope. The implication is stunning: God's intention has always bee to use our inevitable disobedience as a vehicle to show all humanity mercy by His grace. Paul does not make clear how this "mystery" will unfold. Will all ethnic Israel be converted when Gentiles stream into Israel after Christ's return? Will the process of saving everyone, Jew and Gentile, continue after our death? We are not told here.

Paul now grounds this divine intent to save everyone in the purpose of creation:
"For from him and through Him and back to Him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen (36)."It is the Creator's plan that everything derives from Him and everything, including the unrighteous, is destined to return to Him.
The grand implication is a relentless divine loving pursuit to reclaim the unrighteous in this life and after death. Paul is not in the mood here to consider whether and how many will resist His relentless offer of mercy.

Why would God bless Jewish Christian as a remnant? God is a spirit and is doing a spiritual thing this does not include Jewish Christians. Where do you get this? it is a spiritual temple God is building, a spiritual remnant, a spiritual priesthood and yes all people will be blessed in the ages to come but not by some Jewish christian.