Jesus as Michael

[LoveofTruth]

Lol... never said created angels were God... man your comprehension skills are a bit rusty. Here's a clue... the word translated angel can mean a messenger. Jesus was certainly a messenger sent from the Father... would you disagree with that? The angel of the Lord in the burning bush was also the I AM. I know this sends you head for a loop but it's plainly revealed in scripture.

Anywho... this has been fun but seeing as how this issue is non salvational, I'll take my leave.

It is a salvation issue if you deny the Son and who he really is.

If Jesus is an angel as you say (Michael is who you say he is as i understand). Tell me if this is wrong. Then Michael is a created being from God. But the Son is before all things and created all things. So the Son of God is God the Son as scripture says, not an angel/ To which of the angels did God say at any time "thou are my Son, this day have I begotten thee"?

God speaks through angels and men but they are not God

Is Jesus Christ God in your understanding and at the same time Michael the arch angel? When I ask is Jesus Christ the Son of God, God? i mean is he the ALMIGHTY God? not a created being called "god" as the JWS teach in John 1:1.

I have to be very clear with people like you because you will play on a technicality often.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Of course a holy angel at God's command with preparation can make ground holy. The I AM was in the angel and spoke through him.

You've got to be kidding, right?

Holy angels can prophesy perfectly, and perfectly take prayers to God. Angels are full of the Holy Spirit.

Do you have any Biblical proof of these claims? Can created angels be worshipped?

 

[LoveofTruth]

. the word translated angel can mean a messenger. Jesus was certainly a messenger sent from the Father... would you disagree with that?

Hebrews 2:7
"Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:"

"4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."(Hebrews 1:5,6 KJV)

We are not to worship angels nor are angels to worship angels. Only God is to be worshipped.

"16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."(Hebrews 2:16 KJV)

Colossians 2:18
"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,"

That should settle the issue.....but I fear not, for some

 

[SBC]

Lol... never said created angels were God... man your comprehension skills are a bit rusty. Here's a clue... the word translated angel can mean a messenger. Jesus was certainly a messenger sent from the Father... would you disagree with that? The angel of the Lord in the burning bush was also the I AM. I know this sends you head for a loop but it's plainly revealed in scripture.

Anywho... this has been fun but seeing as how this issue is non salvational, I'll take my leave.

It wasn't meant to be funny but enlightening.
Michael is revealed TO BE an Angel that worships the Lord.
The Lord IS Spirit that Created Angels.
So no, the Lord is not a created Angel.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[LoveofTruth]

You've got to be kidding, right?


Do you have any Biblical proof of these claims? Can created angels be worshipped?

curious who are these three men to you?

"And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,"(Genesis 18:1,2 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

You've got to be kidding, right?


Do you have any Biblical proof of these claims? Can created angels be worshipped?

do you believe in the Trinity?

 

[LoveofTruth]

You've got to be kidding, right?


Do you have any Biblical proof of these claims? Can created angels be worshipped?

Do you believe that Jesus Christ the Son of God is the ALMIGHTY God?

 

[Buzz_B]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ the Son of God is the ALMIGHTY God?

You can read, Right? What does Isaiah 9:6 say? Does it call Jesus ALMIGHTY GOD ?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You've got to be kidding, right?


Do you have any Biblical proof of these claims? Can created angels be worshipped?

You've got to be kidding, right?


Do you have any Biblical proof of these claims? Can created angels be worshipped?

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunken with wine, wherein is riot, but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 speaking one to another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
Col 2:6 As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him,
Gal_3:14 (ASV) that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
2Co_11:4 (ASV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or if ye receive a different spirit, which ye did not receive, or a different gospel, which ye did not accept, ye do well to bear with him.
2Co 4:6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Treasure in Jars of Clay
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves;
Joh_14:17 (ASV) even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb,
Rev 22:2 in the midst of the street thereof. And on this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve manner of fruits, yielding its fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rom 5:5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us.

I am not sure if some or all the angels have bodies, but they are not like angels in Islam, they drink and eat of God, they are full of the Spirit, light, love, oil, fire, bread...

God's presence fills, fills hearts, and space, and the Ark of the covenant... God is omnipresent.
Eph 1:23 The church is Christ's body and is filled with Christ who completely fills everything. ASV
Exo 23:20 Behold, I send an angel before thee, to keep thee by the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Take ye heed before him, and hearken unto his voice; provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgression: for my name is in him. ASV

Heb 1:5 God has never said to any of the angels, "You are my Son, because today I have become your Father!" Neither has God said to any of them, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son!"
Heb 1:6 When God brings his first-born Son into the world, he commands all of his angels to worship him.
Heb 1:7 And when God speaks about the angels, he says, "I change my angels into wind and my servants into flaming fire." CEV
Heb 1:13 God never said to any of the angels, "Sit at my right side until I make your enemies into a footstool for you!"
Heb 1:14 Angels are merely spirits sent to serve people who are going to be saved. CEV
Heb 2:2 The message spoken by angels proved to be true, and all who disobeyed or rejected it were punished as they deserved. CEV
Heb 2:4 God himself showed that his message was true by working all kinds of powerful miracles and wonders. He also gave his Holy Spirit to anyone he chose to. CEV
Heb 2:5 We know that God did not put the future world under the power of angels. CEV
Heb 6:4 But what about people who turn away after they have already seen the light and have received the gift from heaven and have shared in the Holy Spirit? What about those who turn away after they have received the good message of God and the powers of the future world? There is no way to bring them back. What they are doing is the same as nailing the Son of God to a cross and insulting him in public! CEV

So there are many scriptures about the Holy Spirit inside saints and angels. He empowers, anoints, puts love inside. No angels can be worshiped, not Michael or Lucifer or Gabriel...

Only the Christ is called son, never Michael. All angels not all other angels worship the Christ. We and angels never receive a Spirit other than Christ or the Holy Spirit, the love of the Father...

Php 2:13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. ASV

This is why angels are able to obey God and live, the Spirit is within them for strength. Angels excel in strength and obedience. God's presence fills the universe, even the Christ after glorification. He is the Son and worshiped, not an angel. God and human spirit and body as one thing.

And God was in the created angel, the burning bush. His name was in the angel, and Moses hearkened unto him and Him.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You can read, Right? What does Isaiah 9:6 say? Does it call Jesus ALMIGHTY GOD ?

so before I answer i want to be clear on your position.

You don't believe that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, is that what your saying

say

yes - for he is Almighty God

no- for He is not Almighty God

 

[Buzz_B]

so before I answer i want to be clear on your position.

You don't believe that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, is that what your saying

say

yes - for he is Almighty God

no- for He is not Almighty God

No. I know the Trinity is born of fusing paganism into Christianity.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

No. I know the Trinity is born of fusing paganism into Christianity.

Fusing paganisms into Christianity is alright. It is like Moses having learned under the Egyptian royalty before becoming a prophet. And Moses did not invent the concept of laws. Nor electrical charge, wood and gold craft...

Just so long as the Holy Spirit uses what the pagans had through obedient apostles, the conglomerate makes up firm truths.

 

[Buzz_B]

Fusing paganisms into Christianity is alright. It is like Moses having learned under the Egyptian royalty before becoming a prophet. And Moses did not invent the concept of laws. Nor electrical charge, wood and gold craft...

Just so long as the Holy Spirit uses what the pagans had through obedient apostles, the conglomerate makes up firm truths.

OK.

And you know that by whose wisdom? 1 Corinthians 3:18-19

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

OK.

And you know that by whose wisdom? 1 Corinthians 3:18-19

Often sceptics refer to Paul the apostle and his understanding of blood covenant and resurrection accusing him of making up the faith as he goes using paganism. But the Holy Spirit met people where they were at, Paul and accurate instrument kindly debated with them and used their knowledge, sifting truth from error, into a base for concrete truth from God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

No. I know the Trinity is born of fusing paganism into Christianity.

Jesus Christ is Almighty God as scripture shows. And your wrong the concept of the Tri Unity or Trinity come from scripture clearly as I will show

“ Revelation 1 - 8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ..11. Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. ...17. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18. I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”(Revelation 1:8,11,17,18 KJV)

" And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."(Zechariah 12:10 KJV)

and more about the first and the last, the Lord God and one pf the most powerful trinity verses in the bible ( with 1 John 5:7 KJV)

"12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."

more about the Alpha and Omega the first and the last

"13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last...16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."( Revelation 22:13,16 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

No. I know the Trinity is born of fusing paganism into Christianity.

another question

1. is the Son of God God manifest in the flesh? Yes or no?

2. Is the Son of God God? yes or no?

3. Did the Son of God exist eternally before he came in the flesh?

4. Did the Son of God have glory WITH the father before he came to the Earth? Yes or no?

Remember if you deny the Son you have not the father.

 

[Buzz_B]

another question

1. is the Son of God God manifest in the flesh? Yes or no?

2. Is the Son of God God? yes or no?

3. Did the Son of God exist eternally before he came in the flesh?

4. Did the Son of God have glory WITH the father before he came to the Earth? Yes or no?

Remember if you deny the Son you have not the father.

(1) Yes
(2) No
(3) No
(4) Yes

 

[Buzz_B]

Often sceptics refer to Paul the apostle and his understanding of blood covenant and resurrection accusing him of making up the faith as he goes using paganism. But the Holy Spirit met people where they were at, Paul and accurate instrument kindly debated with them and used their knowledge, sifting truth from error, into a base for concrete truth from God.

I am not one who believes that Paul makes up a faith as he goes using paganism.

I am one that believe and knows that most people who say they are Christian do not really understand what Paul says.

I myself used to not understand what Paul says back when I believed as the majority of Christians do.

 

[Buzz_B]

I will get to post 155 in a short.

There is much misunderstood there and so i will put a little time into showing how it is misunderstood.

 

[Buzz_B]

Jesus Christ is Almighty God as scripture shows. And your wrong the concept of the Tri Unity or Trinity come from scripture clearly as I will show

“ Revelation 1 - 8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ..11. Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. ...17. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18. I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”(Revelation 1:8,11,17,18 KJV)

" And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."(Zechariah 12:10 KJV)

and more about the first and the last, the Lord God and one pf the most powerful trinity verses in the bible ( with 1 John 5:7 KJV)

"12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."

more about the Alpha and Omega the first and the last

"13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last...16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."( Revelation 22:13,16 KJV)

You do the typical job of throwing out so much at once that not only do you not really see what the Scriptures have said but you make it difficult for anyone else to explain to you where you have went wrong.

It is like if I wanted to show you a defect on the second floor of your building plans, instead of focusing on the second floor you throw forward the plans of your entire house so that you can look everywhere but where I, as the one trying to help you, needs for you to look.

That is typical of how mistaken ideas entrap people so that they feel it unnecessary to home in on their errors.

First you have to admit that the word, "Christ", means "chosen one" similar to Messiah, meaning, "anointed one." God anoints the one he has chosen by his holy spirit, equipping his chosen one to do what God has chosen him to do. And so "Christ" is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew "Messiah."

Now notice in the very first verse of Revelation how it starts out: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him ..."

IOW's - the book of Revelation is the revealing by God of his chosen one who is Jesus. And this is speaking of the resurrected glorified Christ showing that now back in heaven Jesus is yet God's chosen one. God does not have to choose or anoint himself. God chose and anointed one who is a Son to him. Jesus is in fact God's first Son of many sons.

Are you following this far?