Jesus as Michael

[miknik5]

For those who think Jehovah's Witnesses are the inventors of the belief that Jesus Christ and Michael the Archangel are one and the same person, I found the following article in my old notes. I really do not know who wrote it, as I must have forgotten to note who. But the article speaks for itself:



If anyone knows from where I must have gotten that article, I would appreciate your letting me know so that I may make record of it.

Thank you.

You should not go beyond what is written or go beyond the apostles teachings or go beyond the doctrine of CHRIST of progress above the ONE who is THE HEAD of HIS BODY

 

[Buzz_B]

You should not go beyond what is written or go beyond the apostles teachings or go beyond the doctrine of CHRIST of progress above the ONE who is THE HEAD of HIS BODY

Amen. I completely agree with you on that. That is why I say that it is not proper to push the view that Michael and Jesus are surely the same persons.

But one does no wrong to recognize that the belief that Jesus and Michael are one and the same by no means was birthed by Jehovah's Witnesses. For there are supporters of that idea long before them. And that is just fact. It has nothing to do with going beyond what is written in the Scriptures to recognize that fact.

If you mean that because I say I recognize Jesus as the Son of God you need to remember that the phrase, "God the Son", is no where in the Bible and so you are not following your own advice not to go beyond what is written.

But thank you for your comment.

Edit: I should add that, as you likely know, I have no right to defend a belief that Jesus is not God but only the Son of God, equal as a Son to a Father, on this site.

Being as I have no right to defend that belief, don't you think it a bit hypocritical for others to be allowed to push their belief that Jesus is God on me? I am certain God does not see that as being fair.

So I humbly ask of you, Do not prod me about it being as you know I am not allowed to speak about it.

Second edit: Come to think of it, with the rules saying no one is allowed to speak against the Trinity, how is a thread entitled, 'Jesus-as-Michael' even allowed? It all seems so very obviously hypocritical.

 

[miknik5]

You are adding to confusion by bringing a whole slew of notes of writings and claiming you would like some one to provide the source of where you got this extensive list?

This opens up to those who are ignorant and to those who are openly and deliberately serving another “father” more confusion

It’s not stopping the dam it’s actually opening it wider and wider

 

[miknik5]

Amen. I completely agree with you on that. That is why I say that it is not proper to push the view that Michael and Jesus are surely the same persons.

But one does no wrong to recognize that the belief that Jesus and Michael are one and the same by no means was birthed by Jehovah's Witnesses. For there are supporters of that idea long before them. And that is just fact. It has nothing to do with going beyond what is written in the Scriptures to recognize that fact.

If you mean that because I say I recognize Jesus as the Son of God you need to remember that the phrase, "God the Son", is no where in the Bible and so you are not following your own advice not to go beyond what is written.

But thank you for your comment.

Edit: I should add that, as you likely know, I have no right to defend a belief that Jesus is not God but only the Son of God, equal as a Son to a Father, on this site.

Being as I have no right to defend that belief, don't you think it a bit hypocritical for others to be allowed to push their belief that Jesus is God on me? I am certain God does not see that as being fair.

So I humbly ask of you, Do not prod me about it being as you know I am not allowed to speak about it.

Second edit: Come to think of it, with the rules saying no one is allowed to speak against the Trinity, how is a thread entitled, 'Jesus-as-Michael' even allowed? It all seems so very obviously hypocritical.

Your words reveal your true and personal agenda

 

[miknik5]

If you mean that because I say I recognize Jesus as the Son of God you need to remember that the phrase, "God the Son", is no where in the Bible and so you are not following your own advice not to go beyond what is written.

Edit: I should add that, as you likely know, I have no right to defend a belief that Jesus is not God but only the Son of God, equal as a Son to a Father, on this site.

Being as I have no right to defend that belief, don't you think it a bit hypocritical for others to be allowed to push their belief that Jesus is God on me? I am certain God does not see that as being fair.

So I humbly ask of you, Do not prod me about it being as you know I am not allowed to speak about it.

Second edit: Come to think of it, with the rules saying no one is allowed to speak against the Trinity, how is a thread entitled, 'Jesus-as-Michael' even allowed? It all seems so very obviously hypocritical.

Only (???) THE SON of GOD who came forth from GOD and into the world?


Do you know of any other?

 

[miknik5]

Buzz

Do you agree that many profess to have god?

But those who do not have THE SON do not have THE ONE who sent HIM and that those who have THE SON have the FATHER also?

Do you agree that there is only one Gospel and that another Jesus is no different than another gospel?

 

[Buzz_B]

Your words reveal your true and personal agenda

Do they to you? What then is your agenda?

 

[Buzz_B]

Only (???) THE SON of GOD who came forth from GOD and into the world?


Do you know of any other?

Capitalizing on a simple word with your imagination are you?

We could not know God but for Christ revealing to our minds and hearts who God is in terms of his thinking and personality, for we are told that we cannot know the mind of God but we do have the mind of Christ to go by:

1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Should we not be satisfied with that?

Edit: No I am sorry. I did error. God spoke to me the moment I closed out of the web and told me to revisit my opinion of 1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

God told me to look closer at the context.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

So I had that wrong and God himself corrected me just as he always does. What I emboldened is one thought. And what Paul said is that no man can judge us because they do not have the mind of the lord Christ Jesus as we have.

So you see how I quickly repent when I need to and how God always actually does speak to me to tell me when i need to.

I had to post this retraction because the last thing in this world I would ever desire to do is teach anything contrary to the truth of God. Let this serve as proof that I do not lie when I say God directly teaches me. And He does so because he knows I am faithful to him with all sincerity and careful to avoid being compromised.

Edit again Seems I got a bit too concerned with making a retraction for when I got off the web again, I was spoken to again and told I still did not fully understand. So I looked deeper but I feel it best to not discuss what I found here.

This is what happens to me all of the time. It has given me a very deep knowledge of many things. It is an exciting journey.

 

[Buzz_B]

Buzz

Do you agree that many profess to have god?

But those who do not have THE SON do not have THE ONE who sent HIM and that those who have THE SON have the FATHER also?

Do you agree that there is only one Gospel and that another Jesus is no different than another gospel?

Yes I fully agree with that.

 

[Buzz_B]

You are adding to confusion by bringing a whole slew of notes of writings and claiming you would like some one to provide the source of where you got this extensive list?

This opens up to those who are ignorant and to those who are openly and deliberately serving another “father” more confusion

It’s not stopping the dam it’s actually opening it wider and wider

You can't do better than that? I humbly stated that I could not remember the source for having failed to originally note it and asked that if anyone recognize where it came from to let me know. The information contained in it is easily traceable on the web and does check out as valid.

If that offends you i think you are just looking for something to argue about. And if that is all you are interested in doing pardon me for begging away from you.

Have a nice day.

 

[miknik5]

Do they to you? What then is your agenda?

CHRIST plus nothing more....nothing less than CHRIST

ONE GOSPEL
ONE BAPTISM
ONE SPIRIT
ONE LORD
ONE FAITH
ONE GOD
ONE TRUTH
ONE HOPE

Not many

 

[miknik5]

You can't do better than that? I humbly stated that I could not remember the source for having failed to originally note it and asked that if anyone recognize where it came from to let me know. The information contained in it is easily traceable on the web and does check out as valid.

If that offends you i think you are just looking for something to argue about. And if that is all you are interested in doing pardon me for begging away from you.

Have a nice day.

It offends me yes
Because it’s a lie and the difference between one TESTIMONY and many false testimonies

 

[miknik5]

Capitalizing on a simple word with your imagination are you?

We could not know God but for Christ revealing to our minds and hearts who God is in terms of his thinking and personality, for we are told that we cannot know the mind of God but we do have the mind of Christ to go by:

1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Should we not be satisfied with that?

Edit: No I am sorry. I did error. God spoke to me the moment I closed out of the web and told me to revisit my opinion of 1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

God told me to look closer at the context.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

So I had that wrong and God himself corrected me just as he always does. What I emboldened is one thought. And what Paul said is that no man can judge us because they do not have the mind of the lord Christ Jesus as we have.

So you see how I quickly repent when I need to and how God always actually does speak to me to tell me when i need to.

I had to post this retraction because the last thing in this world I would ever desire to do is teach anything contrary to the truth of God. Let this serve as proof that I do not lie when I say God directly teaches me. And He does so because he knows I am faithful to him with all sincerity and careful to avoid being compromised.

Edit again Seems I got a bit too concerned with making a retraction for when I got off the web again, I was spoken to again and told I still did not fully understand. So I looked deeper but I feel it best to not discuss what I found here.

This is what happens to me all of the time. It has given me a very deep knowledge of many things. It is an exciting journey.

How do we have the mind of CHRIST

In the same way that the SPIRIT of CHRIST was in all the prophets?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Saint Michael could not do some things Jesus and the Holy Spirit can do. Omnipresence... His name asks, "Who is like God?" He is not God or self existent. Angel means messenger, but who would receive a message before all creation? Angels are Spirit filled but not the Spirit themselves.

 

[Buzz_B]

How do we have the mind of CHRIST

In the same way that the SPIRIT of CHRIST was in all the prophets?

Not necessarily, no. For not all are lesser prophets and the prophet is Christ himself . For most it is the spirit on the written word of God that we benefit from because of having emulated "the way" that Christ represented to us. That "way" was his moral attitudes, ambitions, and loyal love. It is really only in making his ways our own that we come to be able to benefit from the spirit which is in Christ and upon God's word. And it is then that the holy spirit is able to work in us helping us recall what we have learned from God's word, put the pieces together properly, and apply them as we should.

Many like to think of it as some super miraculous thing but all they accomplish by doing so is to become conceited. And if God is really going to speak to a person, they must first understand that, because God is in no way going to be party to conceit.

So how do we know if it is our own conceit we are hearing? We must be extremely humble about it. It is not something we can force to happen and it often happens when our thoughts are totally directed elsewhere. Its like boom, why did I suddenly hear that being as I was thinking about something else! For example, I have been asleep at night and a Scripture location will come to me and suddenly I find myself wide awake and cannot resist looking it up to see what it says. It has always proved to be an answer to something I was earlier pondering which I could not quite figure out. And once I read it my confusion was gone. It is not something which can be mistaken for the voices of your own thinking or the reverse. One knows who it is doing it no if ands or buts.

 

[miknik5]

Not necessarily, no. For not all are lesser prophets and the prophet is Christ himself . For most it is the spirit on the written word of God that we benefit from because of having emulated "the way" that Christ represented to us. That "way" was his moral attitudes, ambitions, and loyal love. It is really only in making his ways our own that we come to be able to benefit from the spirit which is in Christ and upon God's word. And it is then that the holy spirit is able to work in us helping us recall what we have learned from God's word, put the pieces together properly, and apply them as we should.

Many like to think of it as some super miraculous thing but all they accomplish by doing so is to become conceited. And if God is really going to speak to a person, they must first understand that, because God is in no way going to be party to conceit.

So how do we know if it is our own conceit we are hearing? We must be extremely humble about it. It is not something we can force to happen and it often happens when our thoughts are totally directed elsewhere. Its like boom, why did I suddenly hear that being as I was thinking about something else! For example, I have been asleep at night and a Scripture location will come to me and suddenly I find myself wide awake and cannot resist looking it up to see what it says. It has always proved to be an answer to something I was earlier pondering which I could not quite figure out. And once I read it my confusion was gone. It is not something which can be mistaken for the voices of your own thinking or the reverse. One knows who it is doing it no if ands or buts.

Is there anything higher than THE hidden wisdom of GOD which HE has made known to us?

 

[miknik5]

There isn’t

Some think they should keep professing more than THE FOUNDATION revealing that they don’t understand THE hidden wisdom of GOD

Which is, by the way, THE MESSAGE of THE CROSS

 

[Buzz_B]

Is there anything higher than THE hidden wisdom of GOD which HE has made known to us?

More than a little waits for Christ to appear before we can understand. And even as prophets of old when God reveals ahead to us things so that we can for a purpose give early warning it does not mean we fully understand until it actually arrives. 1 Peter 1 speaks of the prophets desiring to peer into the things revealed to us even though they had prophesied to us concerning the coming of these things.

I was for example given two dreams one after the other just a few week before the 911 World Trade Center terrorist attacks. The reason is that I was living with a rather isolated group of men at the time in a situation where once that happen we may have been consumed by fear and the only point seems to have been God telling us not to panic. For because of the dreams I knew buildings would be toppled; I knew that it would be an event in America; I knew that it would be an event which would shake the whole world up and cause the purposes of God to begin advancing faster down to the time of Christ's appearance; but I could not say exactly which buildings it was to be though I knew they had to be important buildings; and I could not say in exactly what location in the United States it would be but I knew it had to be in important locations. And I knew I was supposed to speak about it to those close around me in the same or similar situation as myself and so for the weeks before what I dreamed would always be brought back up at our many meetings together and mused about.

As we stood together watching on TV, one psychologist standing next to me committed, "Well, at least they (referring to the World Trade Center Buildings) are still standing." I responded, "Yes, for the moment, but we know they will fall." I had been saying that all along. That person almost got angry at me for saying that, exclaiming, "OH, how dare you even think such a thing." And it was not long after the first one did fall. And that person then asked me about the second one and I told them yes, that it would fall. And a short time later it fell. You should have seen the looks on the faces of those I had been revealing all that to ahead of it happening. I was really in no way responsible for having known. I did not know for the reason that there was anything particularly special about me. Yet I found that when that happens people begin to treat you almost like they think you are God. And I do not like that part of it although I understand that tendency they have. Those things were no credit to me at all. I was nothing special nor should anyone treat me as if I am. God could have used anyone he so desired to use.

But that does describe our situation insofar as what we really know ahead.

 

[miknik5]

More than a little waits for Christ to appear before we can understand. And even as prophets of old when God reveals ahead to us things so that we can for a purpose give early warning it does not mean we fully understand until it actually arrives. 1 Peter 1 speaks of the prophets desiring to peer into the things revealed to us even though they had prophesied to us concerning the coming of these things.

No. that was the angels. The prophets on the other hand did not fully know that what they prophecies was pointing to the glories and the grace found in CHRIST JESUS alone. What they didn’t fully know then...they do now
And they understand that they were serving us and that they would not be (until CHRIST) made perfect (until CHRIST) without us and the generation who benefitted by THE GRACE of GOD which comes to us in CHRIST JESUS.

You minced two pieces of the WORD of TRUTH together. Angels desired to look into these things...the prophets however, by the SPIRIT of CHRIST in them prophecies of these things

I was for example given two dreams one after the other just a few week before the 911 World Trade Center terrorist attacks. The reason is that I was living with a rather isolated group of men at the time in a situation where once that happen we may have been consumed by fear and the only point seems to have been God telling us not to panic. For because of the dreams I knew buildings would be toppled; I knew that it would be an event in America; I knew that it would be an event which would shake the whole world up and cause the purposes of God to begin advancing faster down to the time of Christ's appearance; but I could not say exactly which buildings it was to be though I knew they had to be important buildings; and I could not say in exactly what location in the United States it would be but I knew it had to be in important locations. And I knew I was supposed to speak about it to those close around me in the same or similar situation as myself and so for the weeks before what I dreamed would always be brought back up at our many meetings together and mused about.

As we stood together watching on TV, one psychologist standing next to me committed, "Well, at least they (referring to the World Trade Center Buildings) are still standing." I responded, "Yes, for the moment, but we know they will fall." I had been saying that all along. That person almost got angry at me for saying that, exclaiming, "OH, how dare you even think such a thing." And it was not long after the first one did fall. And that person then asked me about the second one and I told them yes, that it would fall. And a short time later it fell. You should have seen the looks on the faces of those I had been revealing all that to ahead of it happening. I was really in no way responsible for having known. I did not know for the reason that there was anything particularly special about me. Yet I found that when that happens people begin to treat you almost like they think you are God. And I do not like that part of it although I understand that tendency they have. Those things were no credit to me at all. I was nothing special nor should anyone treat me as if I am. God could have used anyone he so desired to use.

But that does describe our situation insofar as what we really know ahead.

i do not know what your dream
has to do with THE GOSPEL other than. did you,after this dream and before these people remind and encourage them to continue to believe in the LORD JESUS CHRIST?

 

[miknik5]

1 peter 1which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should comeunto you: 11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.


Prophets prophecies of THE GOSPEL
Angels didn’t