I have heard this over and over and over now lets consult three irrefutable jewish sources.
According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud,
I've been following this thread for a while now. I had a brother pass away a week ago and I wanted to know about this topic further.
I can say that it is a difficult topic in both complexity and meaning.
I ran across this article today and I thought it had some good points. Although I found that several of the biblical passages were not as clear as the article made them to appear.
Faith Defenders - Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna
There were some very good posts in this thread with a lot of biblical support for each position. I guess that means I have to hit the "BOOK" myself! Going to the scriptures with prayer,
asking for wisdom through the Holy Spirit is ultimately where my decision will rest. Many of the scriptures posted in this thread will be a springboard for more study. For that I am grateful.
The following is my response to the "conclusion" at the end of that article:
CONCLUSION
Gehenna as a place of final punishment was a clear rabbinic teaching before Christ was ever born. The Midrash, the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds, and apocryphal literature refer to Gehenna hundreds of times. The Midrash alone refers to Gehenna over seventy-five times.
I assume you are aware that those writings are not inspired. So what is of primary importance is what Christ & the Scriptures teach. Christ warned against the false teachings of the
Pharisees & Sadducees. "Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."
Additionally, there is ancient Jewish literature that speaks of many who go to Gehenna & then later come out of it. It also speaks of Gehenna being destroyed. These statements are opposed
to the notion of it being a place of endless torments. For more on this subject, please refer to the debate between Der Alter & William Tanksley Jr in this thread:
Conditional Immortality Supports Annihilationion, Refutes Eternal Conscious Torment and Universalism
Moreover there are early Christian writings in support of universal reconciliation.
The vivid imagery and striking phraseology found in the intertestamental literature, which described Gehenna as the ultimate place of eternal torment for the wicked, was clearly carried
over into the New Testament itself by the teaching of Christ and the apostles.
Similarly to my previous comment, i refer you to the Scriptures:
"Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14)
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)
Jesus said this to the Pharisees, "I well know that you do not have the Love of God in you..." (Jn. 5:42). So what would they know of a God Who - is - love - & the Saviour of the whole world,
not just certain Jews or Pharisees only?
Jesus said re the Pharisees:
"This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)
Jesus said the Pharisees' father was Satan the devil, they were children of Hades, and they taught false doctrines and the commandments of men.
The Pharisees had their oral traditions, which were not Scripture. Jesus rebuked them regarding their traditions.
That the ultimate fate of the wicked will be eternal, conscious torment will be further argued in a later chapter, but we have demonstrated in this chapter that Gehenna is the ultimate fate of all impenitent sinners according to rabbinic and New Testament literature.
Scripture says after the wicked are resurrected they will go into the - lake of fire - which is the second death. Death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God will be "all in all" (v.28).
Scripture trumps & opposes any "rabbinic...literature" in support of a dogma of endless punishments.
The concept of Universalism, which sees no one going to Gehenna, or Gehenna ultimately being emptied of all sinners, is an ideal which is absolutely foreign to the intertestamental and New Testament literature.
There will certainly be those who go to Gehenna. The questions are (1) whether or not it is to be equated with the lake of fire, or (2) only the millennial kingdom of Christ or (3) the
judgement of the Jews (c. 70 AD), or (4) a combination of the three. And (5) can/will those who go there be saved. BTW, in one Gehenna passage, Jesus says everyone will be salted with fire
(Mk.9:43-49).
The idea of annihilationism, in which the wicked cease to exist, may indeed be found in some of the intertestamental literature, particularly those works which were influenced by the Sadducees
or Stoics. But enough has been given in this chapter to demonstrate that the majority view, that of the common man in the street, was of an eternal, conscious torment of the wicked in Gehenna.
Was any evidence given of Jewish beliefs at the time of Jesus' mortal life (c. 30 AD). How do we know that the Jews were not divided in their views re the afterlife, including beliefs in
universalism, endless torments & annihilation?
"Of the doctrine of the Pharisees he [Josephus, 37-100 A.D.] says:
" "They believe that wicked spirits are to be kept in an eternal imprisonment (eirgmon aidion). The Pharisees say all souls are incorruptible, but while those of good men are
removed into other bodies those of bad men are subject to eternal punishment" (aidios timoria). Elsewhere he says that the Essenes, "allot to bad souls a dark, tempestuous place,
full of never-ceasing torment (timoria adialeipton), where they suffer a deathless torment" (athanaton timorion)." "
"...He [Philo, 20 B.C.-50 A.D.] uses the exact phraseology of Matt. 25:46, precisely as Christ used it: "It is better not to promise than not to give prompt assistance, for no blame
follows in the former case, but in the latter there is dissatisfaction from the weaker class, and a deep hatred and æonian punishment (chastisement) from such as are more powerful."
Here we have the precise terms employed by our Lord, which show that aionian did not mean endless but did mean limited duration in the time of Christ."
"...Had our Lord intended to indoctrinate the doctrine of the Pharisees, he would have used the terms by which they described it. But his word defining the duration of punishment
was aionian, while their words are aidion, adialeipton, and athanaton. Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion,
eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he used aionion kolasin, an adjective in universal use for limited duration,
and a noun denoting suffering producing improvement."
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/prevailing/upd3.html
10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.
Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.
Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46
Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
Is there salvation after death?
