how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

[LoveofTruth]

So you ignore the verse on Tartarus. Yes Hell and death will be cast in the Lake of Divine purging that means no more death and no more hell. All will be saved in the end.

I dont ignore it , it has its own place and context and meaning.

and no not all will be saved, that is a heresy and another gospel.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I dont ignore it , it has its own place and context and meaning.

and no not all will be saved, that is a heresy and another gospel.

According to you who are ignoring scripture it is heresy but according to God's Word you are the heretic. Show me in scripture where universal salvation is heresy??????

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):

KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

Who is this verse addressing???


This is your fundamental belief that Jesus is going to damn billions. That’s heresy according to God’s Word which you claim to believe in. They bring damnations , destruction, perish etc.


Looks like Rome missed this verse when they changed the meaning of God’s Word and inserted words like hell and eternal.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Get a good KJV , you are reading a wrong translation

but the text says

"That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

The words "Might seek the Lord: are the key. Some might seek and others not. Seek the Lord while he may be found scripture says. If not then they will never find Him for life and hope. They will die and be separated forever from God in the lake of fire and it shall never be quenched.

King James has too many errors. Its ok sometimes. I really like the other versions especially with this verse.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

By the way it is the Spirit of Truth not the KJV of the Bible that leads and guides us into all truth. Man has had his carnal hands on the interpretation of the Bible from the beginning of the printing press. That is one reason we should trust the Christ within not a letter that killeth so we can rightly divide the revelation or unveiling of the Spirit.

 

[LoveofTruth]

This is your fundamental belief that Jesus is going to damn billions.

No my God so loved the word that he calls all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If they do not they will perish and be cast into the lake of fire. God's wrath against sin cant be appeased by any torment n hell or by what men do. Thats why there is no redemption in hell. Or after suffering in hell.

The gospel is 1 Cor 15. To say there is another way is to preach another gospel and so be accursed Galatines 1

Do you think if God sent His Son into the world and he died on a cross for us that God would allow another way to come to him besides this.

Jesus said he who doesn't believe is condemned already. Jesus is the one who spoke of wailing and gnashing of teeth and a fire that shall never be quenched.

You are the one denying His words and twisting it and judging God as unjust to send any to eternal everlasting forever and ever fire.

If you end up in the lake of fire ( and I pray you don't) you may be shaking your fist at God but maybe not for you will possibly know why you went there and the others as well

Jesus said "few there be that find" the way to life many go the broad road to destruction.

 

[LoveofTruth]

By the way it is the Spirit of Truth not the KJV of the Bible that leads and guides us into all truth. Man has had his carnal hands on the interpretation of the Bible from the beginning of the printing press. That is one reason we should trust the Christ within not a letter that killeth so we can rightly divide the revelation or unveiling of the Spirit.

The Spirit will guide us into all truth and the Holy scriptures are called the scriptures of truth



1+1=2

 

[LoveofTruth]

King James has too many errors. Its ok sometimes. I really like the other versions especially with this verse.

no it doesn't

and this is a 45 hour talk to expose the other versions, maybe another time

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

No my God so loved the word that he calls all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If they do not they will perish and be cast into the lake of fire. God's wrath against sin cant be appeased by any torment n hell or by what men do. Thats why there is no redemption in hell. Or after suffering in hell.

The gospel is 1 Cor 15. To say there is another way is to preach another gospel and so be accursed Galatines 1

Do you think if God sent His Son into the world and he died on a cross for us that God would allow another way to come to him besides this.

Jesus said he who doesn't believe is condemned already. Jesus is the one who spoke of wailing and gnashing of teeth and a fire that shall never be quenched.

You are the one denying His words and twisting it and judging God as unjust to send any to eternal everlasting forever and ever fire.

If you end up in the lake of fire ( and I pray you don't) you may be shaking your fist at God but maybe not for you will possibly know why you went there and the others as well

Jesus said "few there be that find" the way to life many go the broad road to destruction.

Like I said God has many ages to call all the people he never called. I posted verses on this and you ignored them because you are so obsessed with doom and gloom. I posted the verse on Acts a:14 which you dismissed with the error ridden KJV of the Bible. Than you replace the Spirit of Truth with the letter that killeth. You are killing God's Word by your limited old warn out wine skin and refuse to see the new wine (revelation) is GOOD NEWS not doom and gloom.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

no it doesn't

and this is a 45 hour talk to expose the other versions, maybe another time

KJ V Bible Baal and Easter

Take the word Easter" in Acts 12:4 Here you have a pagan Goddess that was placed in the Bible by corrupt translators.

Easter is far more than just a Pagan word. Below we find the KJV totally mistranslating the word Passover and inserting the word for the Chaldean goddess (Baal), the queen of heaven

Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter (Passover) to bring him forth to the people.



Rom 11:3-6

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

(KJV)



EASTER


pascha ^3957^, mistranslated "Easter" in <Acts 12:4>, KJV, denotes the Passover (RV). The phrase "after the Passover" signifies after the whole festival was at an end. The term "Easter" is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast, but was not instituted by Christ, nor was it connected with Lent. From this Pasch the pagan festival of "Easter" was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity. See PASSOVER.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)



Other words you should look at closer, hell, eternity, godhead and there are plenty more.



You better do a little research on your own Richard Bancroft as well as James the 1st King of England had the KJV of the Bible written so they could influence its content. They wanted to make sure the Puritans of their times were swayed towards the king and the Church of England. All Bibles are some what influenced by religion; that is a fact, like it or not. The Bible is the Word of God; but it is not the truth; the truth comes from the Spirit of truth that will lead and guide us in to all truth. If we truth another then all you have is another religion.

 

[LoveofTruth]

KJ V Bible Baal and Easter

Take the word Easter" in Acts 12:4 Here you have a pagan Goddess that was placed in the Bible by corrupt translators.

Easter is far more than just a Pagan word. Below we find the KJV totally mistranslating the word Passover and inserting the word for the Chaldean goddess (Baal), the queen of heaven

Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter (Passover) to bring him forth to the people.



Rom 11:3-6

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

(KJV)



EASTER


pascha ^3957^, mistranslated "Easter" in <Acts 12:4>, KJV, denotes the Passover (RV). The phrase "after the Passover" signifies after the whole festival was at an end. The term "Easter" is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast, but was not instituted by Christ, nor was it connected with Lent. From this Pasch the pagan festival of "Easter" was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity. See PASSOVER.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)



Other words you should look at closer, hell, eternity, godhead and there are plenty more.



You better do a little research on your own Richard Bancroft as well as James the 1st King of England had the KJV of the Bible written so they could influence its content. They wanted to make sure the Puritans of their times were swayed towards the king and the Church of England. All Bibles are some what influenced by religion; that is a fact, like it or not. The Bible is the Word of God; but it is not the truth; the truth comes from the Spirit of truth that will lead and guide us in to all truth. If we truth another then all you have is another religion.

like I said 45 hour talk

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You did not even know what Tartarus is because was because the KJV mistranslated it.

 

[expos4ever]

With all politeness, I want to ask those who believe in a literal lake of fire whether they recognize an effective metaphor when they see one. Scripture is chock full of metaphor, and yet fundamentalism has somehow succeeded in slowly convincing us that, for example, Jesus will return with a flaming sword and slaughter countless millions (this notion comes from what I see as an obvious misreading of Revelation). Or that countless millions will be tortured in hell for all eternity.

I believe that part of the "flaming lake of fire" concept derives from another distortion of what I think the Biblical narrative really tells us. And I offer this from NT Wright in this regard:

Of course, there have been crude and unbiblical versions of the doctrine of atonement, and many have rightly reacted against the idea of a vengeful God determined to punish someone and being satisfied by taking it out on his own son. But do not mistake the caricature for the biblical doctrine. Paul says, in his most central and careful statement, not that God punished Jesus, but that God ‘condemned sin in the flesh’ of Jesus (Romans 8.3).

Another important problem in this respect is what I see as the widely-held, yet I believe unBiblical, notion that the ultimate destination for the believer is heaven (in a disembodied state). Scripture instead teaches that the redeemed will ultimately be given a resurrection body in a re-made physical creation.

I expect to post more, but I have narrowed my position on hell to two options:

1. Annihilation
2. The lost, while not ultimately annihilated, become shadows of the ideal human beings they were intended to become.

 

[Ronald]

Gods nature revealed in the Bible is Holy, pure, Love, justice, compassion . Some might say how does God equate His holiness and wrath against sin and justice, with His love compassion and mercy.

The way he showed us all is in the cross of Jesus and his resurrection.

It is not God that did not provide a way to be free and have eternal life. It is men who deny him and reject His mercy. They cannot come to him any other way. Only through Jesus Christ. Jesus himself, said no an comes to the father but by him.

God does not just ignore his justice and wrath against sin. His holiness is pure and He is a consuming fire in His nature. But His love reaches out for men to come. Yet he will not deny who He is and that being the case all sinners who do not come to Him through Christ will be damned forever. To say no they won't because that would make God a horrible being and not loving. Is gross ignorance and an attack upon the Holy God of the Bible.

One word _ "forvever" is translated from aion, which means for generation(s), age(s), epoch, lifetime(s). "Everlasting" then can be translated age-lasting or age-during. "Eternity", "eternal", should only be used to describe God, His domain, His Word and our salvation. Everything else was create and according to the Bible, all former things will pass away (referring to the first earth and first heaven). It also says that Death and Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. Destroyed means to put an end to. To say Hell is an indestructible destruction or imperishable perishing is contradictive. We know what destroy means, we know what fire means _ but those words have been changed to mean something symbolic, not what we understand them to mean. So Hell becomes a spiritual place not physical, fire becomes something else since the damned are in darkness. The mystery gets more confused when you alter it to mean something abstract. If you choose to accept eternal damnation and you are comfortable with your family or friends suffering in there forever (with your meaning of it), while you enjoy love and peace in heaven, you have at it!
Merry Christmas

 

[SkyWriting]

Preached there is a different word from preached for salvation in other places. It simply means to proclaim or declare what has been done. There is no evangelizing in hell. Once to die then the judgement.

My post includes links to each word.
19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison

kérussó: to be a herald, proclaim
Original Word: κηρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kérussó
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-roos'-so)
Short Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach
Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach.
HELPS Word-studies
2784 kērýssō – properly, to herald (proclaim); to preach (announce) a message publicly and with conviction (persuasion).

2784 /kērýssō ("to herald") refers to preaching the Gospel as the authoritative (binding) word of God, bringing eternal accountability to all who hear it.

[2784 (kērýssō) is "preaching by a herald sent from God" (BAGD, "declaration," TDNT, 3:703). To "gospelize" (2097 /euaggelízō) stresses the victory of God's Gospel-message in the totality of His "good news."]


Jesus went to Hell, then left.
Is Jesus a poor example to follow?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

My post includes links to each word.
19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison

kérussó: to be a herald, proclaim
Original Word: κηρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kérussó
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-roos'-so)
Short Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach
Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach.
HELPS Word-studies
2784 kērýssō – properly, to herald (proclaim); to preach (announce) a message publicly and with conviction (persuasion).

2784 /kērýssō ("to herald") refers to preaching the Gospel as the authoritative (binding) word of God, bringing eternal accountability to all who hear it.

[2784 (kērýssō) is "preaching by a herald sent from God" (BAGD, "declaration," TDNT, 3:703). To "gospelize" (2097 /euaggelízō) stresses the victory of God's Gospel-message in the totality of His "good news."]


Jesus went to Hell, then left.
Is Jesus a poor example to follow?

Amazing. Thank you.

 

[AACJ]

If you are speeding in the first place, you are guilty of the offense, whether caught or not, so the law is as Damocles' sword.

For those that never speed, do you think they are concerned with the laws of speeding? Are you concerned with the laws of killing someone?

You, I, and every other person in the world sins every day by thought, word, or deed--no matter our commitment or condition. So if your point is that we can live without committing sin--however you classify or categorize each sin (sins committed in ignorance, willfulness, "high-handedness, ect)--and you consequently presuppose that godly fear is not a factor in our walk with God, well, then you're wrong.

Have you ever found yourself breaking the speed limit in ignorance (accidentally)? Of course you have. And what went through your mind? Even sins of ignorance require blood atonement (Leviticus chapters 4 and 5) and are inseparable from godly fear.

Your example of a moral anecdote seems to presuppose that the presence of Godly fear somehow involves or equates to imputed sin or inevitable wrath/destruction. Nothing can be further from the truth, despite the fact that there are those who live in unnecessary fear due to a lack of certain knowledge pertaining to the benefits and work of the Cross.

 

[AACJ]

Missing the glory of eternity is punishment... if your child misbehaves and was looking forward to going to an event with friends and you said that they couldn't go, that is punishment for the child. No lack of accountability... this life is the staging area for the wonderful eternity to come and if you are excluded from it because of unrepentence, then to me there can be no greater "punishment". We as humans think of corporal punishment as being the most severe and "just" retribution for disobeying God... lucky for us, we have a compassionate and loving Father... read what is said of Him

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked;

Isaiah 55:8,9
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Hi,

Your example presupposes that all individuals that die in their sins believe in the existence of a "wonderful eternity to come." I have already thoroughly refuted your claim in another post. In addition, it would not matter at all even if such individuals did believe in such a glorious afterlife; as I have demonstrated elsewhere, being rendered non-existent cannot possibly be a form of punishment.

It has already been Scripturally and logically demonstrated that the existence of an eternal Hell is fully compatible with a loving God. Also, the attempt at demonstrating a lack of accountability (the so-called Problem of the Heathen) for inclusion as a factor in this debate is unfounded and unprovable. All dying in their sins have been previously given equal opportunity and access in exposure to knowledge that can lead to regeneration in Christ.

 

[razzelflabben]

You don't even understand my claim. I DONT THINK GOD CREATED AN ETERNAL TORTURE CHAMBER. I BELIEVE THE FIRE IS PHYSICAL AND BOTH BODY AND SOUL ARE DESTROYED QUICKLY.
If you believe Hell is eternal and God isn't torturing anyone in it, whose judgment is it? He created the punishment whatever or wherever it may be. Eternal punishment does not conform to the nature of God presented throughout the Bible. His justice is fair.,I don't care how much you lessen the punishment, nor how severe the crime, an infinite punishment is not a justifiable judgment for a finite life of sin.

who is reducing anything? As I have said many times over now and you apparently are not "hearing" me, hell is the consequence of sin not the punishment for it.

Let's start by going back to Genesis....what does the account of the first sin say? If you eat of the tree you will die...right. Now what happens when Adam and Eve sinned? They were punished with pain during child birth and weeds....notice the punishment was pain and weeds, whereas the consequence of sin is death.

Now we can move forward from Genesis into Habakkuk 1:13...see where death/separation for sin comes from? Here is another one...2 Corinthians 6:14-15 Now nothing in that diminishes the horrors of hell but it does show us that it is not God torturing people but rather the nature of a holy God and unholy man.

 

[Shempster]

This is a really good thread. Good points and good dialogue.
Can I ask a non-biblical, emotional feely-good question? For those who really "know" God....does the God you worship use violence to get what He wants? Is He obligated to conform to His own terms of justice? Would He forsake and never look back at you except to maintain hell's heat eternally so the torture doesn't ease up?

....or not? What is His true nature and character to you? This question is what I see might be all we are left with after exhausting every verse and word translation trying to figure this out.

Just a thought.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

This is a really good thread. Good points and good dialogue.
Can I ask a non-biblical, emotional feely-good question? For those who really "know" God....does the God you worship use violence to get what He wants? Is He obligated to conform to His own terms of justice? Would He forsake and never look back at you?
Would He maintain hell's heat eternally so the torture doesn't ease up?

....or not? What is His true nature and character to you? This question is what I see might be all we are left with after exhausting every verse and word translation.

Our God is an awesome God as the song says. The deeper you dig in His wonderful deep SPIRITUAL Wold the more awesome God is.