how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

[razzelflabben]

Wow, if the imagery and concept of eternal Hell, being thrown into fire and consumed forever is not torture, then no one has ever been tortured on earth. Torture then, doesn't have a meaning. You are implying that if someone on earth could be tortured, Hell would be a lesser punishment. Also many who are tortured and/or in pain or starving would then prefer the less severe existence of torment in Hell. Hell would not be a severe detourant but an alternative and relief from some earthly life conditions.

you are misrepresenting what I said...hell is torment, I said that, depending on the definition we can even say hell is torture as in trying to eat the meal she made was pure torture...but!!!!! that does NOT mean that God is torturing anyone. Hell is the consequence of sin not the punishment as such God is NOT a torturer, He is a judge who upholds the law.

You are trying to lessen the severity, make it sound not so bad - "Oh, its not really torture, just torment_ forever."

Absolutely NOT...that is a misconstruction of what I said and that should be obvious given the correction I just offered. Please do NOT reinvent what I said to suit your bias.

This is human nature, to change the concept of eternal Hell. You don't like it, so you lessen the severity - "It's not so bad, God wouldn't torture people ... just torment them forever."

Actually I do NOT believe there are enough words to describe how bad hell is...see, you are trying to lessen what I said he hell is by making this false claim about what I said. It all boils down to our understanding who what or who goes to hell and why rather than the horrors of hell.

What the heck is the difference?
Hell is severe and it should be a deterrent and btw it's worse than any kind of torture or torment on earth except one, burning to death.
This is why I have also searched the scriptures and reasoned through this concept and have found that the word "eternal" is and must be misinterpreted. You can't burn to death in fire endlessly. You can't be destroyed over and over. If it was an eternal punishment with only torment, then scripture wouldn't include the words destruction or perish and specific instructions and imagery of being thrown into a fire and burned. No, it would just include outer darkness, apart from all that is good, misery, the torment of knowing what you missed out on, etc. So what do you do about the fire, brimstone, destruction and DEATH? By default, to try to grasp it, people are forced to redefine death itself to not mean the end. Oh, so what is it a new life of torment forever? So what scholars have done is assign a symbolic meaning to it all, "It must be a spiritual existence and place and not literally physical fire, but a spiritual fire - the burning torment or something. How could there be fire in outer darkness they postulate - is it dark fire? Fire that really doesn't destroy and a place where the soul is sustained in this torment forever is abstract. See, there's definitely a mystery, and something is just not right with this traditional view, it's not crystal clear.

huh??? How does anything in this address what I said...here is a hint for you...I believe that we don't know nearly as much about hell as we think we would or should like to know. What we do know is that it is torment and eternal and that death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire. Oh, we also know that hell was not created for man but for the demons. Beyond that we don't know all that much....what we can add to our understanding is the purpose for hell, which again is the consequence of sin not the punishment for it. As such God is NOT the torturer that you are trying to make Him out to be here. He simply "reads the names in the book of life" and based on that hands out the sentence the law requires. You are trying to paint the judge out as being a torturer because he hands out the sentence to the criminal. Forget the law, forget the jury, forget everyone but the judge...since the judge hands out the sentence the law requires he is torturing the criminal, right?! Of course not...which is what I pointed out about God and hell. To point out that the judge hands out the sentence the law requires does not reduce the bad things about jail as you also tried to claim here...so please once again I ask you politely to stop reinventing what I said and if you want to discuss what I said then do so based on what I said not on what you want to reinvent me to have said.

The only clear understanding available is that it is real fire, it is real Lake of Fire that destroys both body and soul, a real end to existence and not eternal at all.

see above...and compare it to this passage...Rev. 20:14

 

[LoveofTruth]

If you pay close attention you might notice that most all the warnings of potential impending terrors in the bible, they are directed at God's people, not the evil pagans.

well consider

"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7 KJV)

" And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."( 2 Thess. 1:7-10 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

You have a real evil Jesus her. I said like the Lake of fire because I was referring to they both being spiritual fire. You obviously are a religious literal believer not a spiritual man for if you were you would understand God is a spirit and His Word can be as the letter killeth or the spirit quicken or makes alive.

John 4: 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I have met a few like you who try to air condition hell, and the lake of fire and try to wish it away with their carnal reasoning

the natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit

"consider

"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7 KJV)

" And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."( 2 Thess. 1:7-10 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

God's fire is spiritual not literal. Does God need to roast hot dogs what use is physical fire for a God that is spirit.

sounds literal to me

"
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

How do you spiritualize wailing and gnashing of teeth?

Luke 16:24
"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

Is Abraham a spiritual figment only or a real person?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I have met a few like you who try to air condition hell, and the lake of fire and try to wish it away with their carnal reasoning

the natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit

"consider

"7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7 KJV)

" And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."( 2 Thess. 1:7-10 KJV)

That funny air condition you call spiritual language because I dare attack you doom and gloom doctrines of damnation. I see you did not attempt to refute my post. So why do you believe Jesus needs to torture billions of people he never called for ever and ever and ever with no mercy?

Here is a verse for Sodom and Gomorrah here Jesus went to your so called hell and preached to the Spirit who lived during the time of Noah in other words Sodom and Gomorrah. What did He preach? what else but the good news."Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient”, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).

AGELY.....

The real problem with words like eternal everlasting and for ever and ever is the Babylonian religious system that refuse to look outside of their man made religious box. The seminaries keep puppeting the same old doctrines of damnation generation after generation.

Occasionally you will find a Bible scholar willing to agree with the following. A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.” It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.


Eternal, eternity, etc. is not actually found in Scripture though in some aspects applied through inference of propositions. The problem is that the Greek words which were translated to "eternal" actually do not translate properly in English because there is no word in English which translates it properly. In this case, the word is "AIONIOS" and it is a descriptive adjective which just means "of, or in, or belonging to, or coming from, or resmbling, or befitting the AION.

AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be indefinitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

So anytime you saw Jesus say "Eternal" this and "Eternal" that, he didn't say "perpetuality of time" but rather an indeterminate duration that is neither perpetual or definifitive.




Everlasting destruction

 

[LoveofTruth]

That funny air condition you call spiritual language because I dare attack you doom and gloom doctrines of damnation. I see you did not attempt to refute my post. So why do you believe Jesus needs to torture billions of people he never called for ever and ever and ever with no mercy?

Here is a verse for Sodom and Gomorrah here Jesus went to your so called hell and preached to the Spirit who lived during the time of Noah in other words Sodom and Gomorrah. What did He preach? what else but the good news."Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient”, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20).

AGELY.....

The real problem with words like eternal everlasting and for ever and ever is the Babylonian religious system that refuse to look outside of their man made religious box. The seminaries keep puppeting the same old doctrines of damnation generation after generation.

Occasionally you will find a Bible scholar willing to agree with the following. A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.” It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.


Eternal, eternity, etc. is not actually found in Scripture though in some aspects applied through inference of propositions. The problem is that the Greek words which were translated to "eternal" actually do not translate properly in English because there is no word in English which translates it properly. In this case, the word is "AIONIOS" and it is a descriptive adjective which just means "of, or in, or belonging to, or coming from, or resmbling, or befitting the AION.

AION is a noun meaning, "A period of time, or perpetuity of time, or definitive age, or unbroken age." It simply means an age with unknown measure which can be indefinitive or definitive.

So literally the word "AIONIOS" being translated as "Eternal" would more accurately be defined as "agely"; however since "agely" is not a real word, that leaves the English language without a literal translation for the word "AIONIOS".

So anytime you saw Jesus say "Eternal" this and "Eternal" that, he didn't say "perpetuality of time" but rather an indeterminate duration that is neither perpetual or definifitive.




Everlasting destruction

Ive heard all this error before among some Universalist, the false interpretation of words etc.and some of those words are applied to God's character as well, and he is not just for an age.

Preaching to the spirits in prison is not the same word "preach" as used in an evangelistic effort. Preached in that verse is to herald or proclaim something already done. The word is kerusso In Greek.

Preach in the commons sense is a different Greek word "euaggelizo" , meaning to announce good news, declare show the gospel (evangelize). This is to win souls. The other use is simply a proclamation and heralding of the work done.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

sounds literal to me

"
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

How do you spiritualize wailing and gnashing of teeth?

Luke 16:24
"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

Is Abraham a spiritual figment only or a real person?

You sure an anti spiritual person.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.
Who is this verse addressing??? This is your fundamental belief that Jesus is going to damn billions. That’s heresy according to God’s Word which you claim to believe in. They bring damnations , destruction, perish etc.


Looks like Rome missed this verse when they changed the meaning of God’s Word and inserted words like hell and eternal. I love the word easter. Talk about pagan.

Notice this is not my opinion its God's Word. No one said God is not going to punish/prune the wicked but it will be a spiritual fire not a physical fire. So yes there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

THE RICH MAND AND LAZARUS: Luke chapter 16

Mark 4:34 says, "But without a parable Jesus spoke not unto them but when they were alone He expounded all things to His disciples." This scripture proves that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is only a parable. Contrary to traditional teaching, the rich man does not represent the wicked; neither does Lazarus the beggar represent the righteous. Psalm 37:25 says, "I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread." This parable is not a type of the righteous begging bread from the wicked.

The rich man in this parable represents Judah who had "five brethren." Judah retained the throne of Israel, which is typified by the purple the rich man was clothed in. Judah retained the priesthood which is typified by the fine linen that he was clothed in. And Judah retained Jerusalem, the prosperous headquarters of Israel, which "fared sumptuously."

Lazarus represents the rest of Israel who lived outside the gates of Jerusalem. They had lost the kingship. They had lost the priesthood, and they depended on Judah for both natural and spiritual government. Because of their rebellion against the Lord they had become spiritually starved and sick. The dogs represented the Gentiles, who shared the crumbs from the Master's table and were more of a comfort to the ten other tribes of Israel than Judah was.

The beggar died first, which represents the ten norther tribes going into captivity. "He was carried by the angels" represents God's control over their journey into captivity. And, he was comforted in Abraham's bosom, represents the spiritual revival that took place while they were in captivity.

Later on the rich man died. This represents Judah being taken into captivity about 100 years later. It says that Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom, but it says that the rich man was "buried." It does not say that Lazarus was buried. Judah, as a nation, was buried, never to be a nation in its own right again. The people of Judah will find restoration only when God reunites them once again with their brethren in the other tribes. It is true that some of Judah returned to their land after captivity, but they have lived out a miserable existence and have never been recognized as a nation in their own right again. Not even the present day state of Israel is the restoration that God is going to bring about.

The scripture says that Jesus came to his own, but His own received Him not. And Jewerey has been in a veritable lake of fire ever since they rejected Christ. There was a great gulf fixed between Lazarus and the rich man. This represents the division that was predicted in Zechariah 11:14. "I cut asunder my other staff that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." And verse ten says they lost the covenant blessing. This great gulf is fixed so that even though Christ rose from the dead, they will not, indeed they cannot believe.

But thank God, this gulf is not eternal. A time is coming when God is going to purify and untie Israel once again and establish them as rulers in His millennial kingdom. Hosea 1:10 & 11 predicts, "In the place where it was said unto them Ye are not My people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together and appoint themselves on head (even Jesus Christ the Messiah whom they had before rejected).

Christ has bridge the great gulf and will restore the covenant blessing to a united Israel when the time is right to do so. Then will all Israel, including Judah, benefit from Ephesians 2:12-16, "That ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise. But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us, that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."

 

[LoveofTruth]

You sure an anti spiritual person.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damn…. Strong's NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.
Who is this verse addressing??? This is your fundamental belief that Jesus is going to damn billions. That’s heresy according to God’s Word which you claim to believe in. They bring damnations , destruction, perish etc.


Looks like Rome missed this verse when they changed the meaning of God’s Word and inserted words like hell and eternal. I love the word easter. Talk about pagan.

Notice this is not my opinion its God's Word. No one said God is not going to punish/prune the wicked but it will be a spiritual fire not a physical fire. So yes there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

I am concerned for your soul, the judgements you fling may come on your head

Fire shall never be quenched, and wailing and gnashing of teeth

 

[LoveofTruth]

THE RICH MAND AND LAZARUS: Luke chapter 16

Mark 4:34 says, "But without a parable Jesus spoke not unto them but when they were alone He expounded all things to His disciples." This scripture proves that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is only a parable. Contrary to traditional teaching, the rich man does not represent the wicked; neither does Lazarus the beggar represent the righteous. Psalm 37:25 says, "I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread." This parable is not a type of the righteous begging bread from the wicked.

The rich man in this parable represents Judah who had "five brethren." Judah retained the throne of Israel, which is typified by the purple the rich man was clothed in. Judah retained the priesthood which is typified by the fine linen that he was clothed in. And Judah retained Jerusalem, the prosperous headquarters of Israel, which "fared sumptuously."

Lazarus represents the rest of Israel who lived outside the gates of Jerusalem. They had lost the kingship. They had lost the priesthood, and they depended on Judah for both natural and spiritual government. Because of their rebellion against the Lord they had become spiritually starved and sick. The dogs represented the Gentiles, who shared the crumbs from the Master's table and were more of a comfort to the ten other tribes of Israel than Judah was.

The beggar died first, which represents the ten norther tribes going into captivity. "He was carried by the angels" represents God's control over their journey into captivity. And, he was comforted in Abraham's bosom, represents the spiritual revival that took place while they were in captivity.

Later on the rich man died. This represents Judah being taken into captivity about 100 years later. It says that Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom, but it says that the rich man was "buried." It does not say that Lazarus was buried. Judah, as a nation, was buried, never to be a nation in its own right again. The people of Judah will find restoration only when God reunites them once again with their brethren in the other tribes. It is true that some of Judah returned to their land after captivity, but they have lived out a miserable existence and have never been recognized as a nation in their own right again. Not even the present day state of Israel is the restoration that God is going to bring about.

The scripture says that Jesus came to his own, but His own received Him not. And Jewerey has been in a veritable lake of fire ever since they rejected Christ. There was a great gulf fixed between Lazarus and the rich man. This represents the division that was predicted in Zechariah 11:14. "I cut asunder my other staff that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." And verse ten says they lost the covenant blessing. This great gulf is fixed so that even though Christ rose from the dead, they will not, indeed they cannot believe.

But thank God, this gulf is not eternal. A time is coming when God is going to purify and untie Israel once again and establish them as rulers in His millennial kingdom. Hosea 1:10 & 11 predicts, "In the place where it was said unto them Ye are not My people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together and appoint themselves on head (even Jesus Christ the Messiah whom they had before rejected).

Christ has bridge the great gulf and will restore the covenant blessing to a united Israel when the time is right to do so. Then will all Israel, including Judah, benefit from Ephesians 2:12-16, "That ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise. But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us, that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."

fanciful invented interpretations are not scripture. You are confused

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Ive heard all this error before among some Universalist, the false interpretation of words etc.and some of those words are applied to God's character as well, and he is not just for an age.

Preaching to the spirits in prison is not the same word "preach" as used in an evangelistic effort. Preached in that verse is to herald or proclaim something already done. The word is kerusso In Greek.

Preach in the commons sense is a different Greek word "euaggelizo" , meaning to announce good news, declare show the gospel (evangelize). This is to win souls. The other use is simply a proclamation and heralding of the work done.

So you were there maybe? So tell me why did Jesus even go there? Tell them he is going torture them even more perhaps? if anyone is attacking God's character it is you who preach Jesus is a monster worst then Hitler, Stalin and Mao who only killed millions. Your Jesus is going to torture billions of people he never called forever and ever with no mercy with a literal fire.

What a nice play on words preach, Preached. Who cares. He is a savior not a monster.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

fanciful invented interpretations are not scripture. You are confused

Fanciful? I see no rebuttal all I see is you disagreeing with no substance.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I am concerned for your soul, the judgements you fling may come on your head

Fire shall never be quenched, and wailing and gnashing of teeth

Agely.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

 

[LoveofTruth]

Fanciful? I see no rebuttal all I see is you disagreeing with no substance.

it is easy to make up fanciful interpretations of scripture. Jesus refers to Lazarus by name and he speaks of Abraham by nameand the prophets, who are real men. This wasn't a parable. And a parable is based on real life stories to illustrate a truth.

the names of real people were never given in the parables of Jesus. This is one reason to consider this story of Lazarus and the rich man not a parable. Also It does not have regular form that most of the parables have with an clear introduction, analogous story, and an application.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Luke 3: 6 (amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God

(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

 

[LoveofTruth]

So you were there maybe? So tell me why did Jesus even go there? Tell them he is going torture them even more perhaps? if anyone is attacking God's character it is you who preach Jesus is a monster worst then Hitler, Stalin and Mao who only killed millions. Your Jesus is going to torture billions of people he never called forever and ever with no mercy with a literal fire.

What a nice play on words preach, Preached. Who cares. He is a savior not a monster.

different greek word for preached..plain and simple

you need to study to show thyself approved a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Fanciful? I see no rebuttal all I see is you disagreeing with no substance.

Jesus didn' t speak fabels or about made up places.

and are you a universalist

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

it is easy to make up fanciful interpretations of scripture. Jesus refers to Lazarus by name and he speaks of Abraham by nameand the prophets, who are real men. This wasn't a parable. And a parable is based on real life stories to illustrate a truth.

the names of real people were never given in the parables of Jesus. This is one reason to consider this story of Lazarus and the rich man not a parable. Also It does not have regular form that most of the parables have with an clear introduction, analogous story, and an application.

Well they did here. So are you the rule maker when it comes to how Jesus does thing. Again no rebuttal. This amazing parable is full of Old Testament types that a spiritual man would understand and especially the Jews were his audience would know. Sorry to deep its to deep for you. Babes drink milk and will choke on a spiritual steak. You need spiritual teeth to chew on it not religious teeth

 

[LoveofTruth]

Luke 3: 6 (amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God

(the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

Jesus spoke parable to the "multitudes" in the story of Lazarus he was not speaking to a large multitude.