Yahushua, Yahusha or Jesus?

[Devin P]

So then you do not keep the law.

Perfectly no, but he does keep it. Is knowing that we can't keep the law perfectly a good reason to throw it all out the window? No, But we try our best, and where we slip Jesus (Yeshua) will catch us.

We are to walk as He walked, and He kept Torah. He was Torah. What we're freed from was the nonsense traditions of our fathers, and the lies we've inherited, not the freedom that Torah brings us. Torah is a light to our feet, showing us what is wrong and what is right. David kept Torah, but yet had a man killed out of adultery, should he then have cast aside all of Torah? Well no, he made a mistake, and he repented, and moved forward.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Perfectly no, but he does keep it. Is knowing that we can't keep the law perfectly a good reason to throw it all out the window? No, But we try our best, and where we slip Jesus (Yeshua) will catch us.

We are to walk as He walked, and He kept Torah. He was Torah. What we're freed from was the nonsense traditions of our fathers, and the lies we've inherited, not the freedom that Torah brings us. Torah is a light to our feet, showing us what is wrong and what is right. David kept Torah, but yet had a man killed out of adultery, should he then have cast aside all of Torah? Well no, he made a mistake, and he repented, and moved forward.

Then how do you reconcile this?

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

 

[seventysevens]

When I did research on Yeshua and Yaweh and YHWH I found more than 3 dozens ways to spell Yeshua and it ended up with finding Yeshusa and YHWH to be the same name ,
In the word pictures in Hebrew it 'Behold the Hand Behold the Nail'

the name of Jesus is fine as it is the same person

 

[LivingRightInWrongWorld]

the name of Jesus is not some incantation. It is not the phonetic sounds that come from our mouth that has any power it is the person behind that name and our heart when citing his name. We see this same spirit manifested in scripture in Acts 19:16 where Jewish priests actually have adopted using the name of Jesus to cast out evil spirits but it didn't work and the spirits just fired back at them "Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?" I am quite certain those Jews were pronouncing his name properly but the voiced name had no power.

This quest of finding the perfect pronunciation is fruitless and is in the same spirit of trying to figure out the correct pronunciation of Yahweh. There is no power in these sounds and subscribing to that thinking is counter-gospel and a pagan mindset.

If you watch the video untill the end, you see that I wanted to make a point that it does not matter which transliteration of the name you use if you know you're calling up to Son of God, God manifest in flesh, one and only messiah.

 

[SteveCaruso]

In the word pictures in Hebrew it 'Behold the Hand Behold the Nail'

That's not how Paleo-Hebrew works...

 

[Devin P]

That's not how Paleo-Hebrew works...

Where did you study at? (Not attacking or degrading, just curious since I'm learning hebrew as well). Did you do it on your own, under a rabbi, at college, online, what?

 

[SteveCaruso]

Where did you study at? (Not attacking or degrading, just curious since I'm learning hebrew as well). Did you do it on your own, under a rabbi, at college, online, what?

I studied at Rutgers, and also traded IT and programming favors to learn Syriac from a local professor (as that was something Rutgers didn't offer at the time). From there I translated various Aramaic and other Semitic languages professionally for 15+ years, and have been a part of several Aramaic research grants (2 from the NEH, one faculty research grant at my institution currently underway).

 

[seventysevens]

That's not how Paleo-Hebrew works...

Well I am not an expert on it , but regardless I seen a lot of references to it and it was very descriptive , perhaps I did not do it justice in repeating it as it has been a few years since I research it as I was only researching the names , it was called tetragrammaton and showed pictures for every letter in the hebrew language

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You make this sound like an isolated incident.

The Tanak calls Yahshua, Joshua, 197 times.

What about this one?

Luke 3:29

the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,

I think that serious confusion has been created, by teaching false names.

Acts 4:12

New International Version
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

Yeshua is from Yehoshua

 

[HARK!]

Yeshua is from Yehoshua

That may be; but how is that relevant to changing his name to Jesus?

 

[DamianWarS]

When I did research on Yeshua and Yaweh and YHWH I found more than 3 dozens ways to spell Yeshua and it ended up with finding Yeshusa and YHWH to be the same name ,
In the word pictures in Hebrew it 'Behold the Hand Behold the Nail'

the name of Jesus is fine as it is the same person

SteveCaruso you are free to correct me on this as you seem to be more learnt in these areas but from my research the hebrew for Jesus is Yehoshua (Strongs H3091).

In Paleo-Hebrew there are 2 character parent roots that can form 3 character child roots which then go on to form more broad words. Yehoshua is one of these more broad words YOD-SHIN-VAV-AYIN-HEY which is from the 4 character child root YOD-SHIN-AYIN and this is from the 2 character parent SHIN-AYIN and from what I understand from Paleo-Hebrew it is from this parent root that shapes the child roots and words that are derived from it.

SHIN-AYIN (meaning:watch/shepherd)
here is the excerpt from the Ancient Hebrew Lexicon (AHL) (replaced pictographs with modern hebrew characters)

"Watch co: Shepherd ab: Delight: The pictograph [ש] is a picture of the teeth used for devouring or destruction, the [ע] is a picture of the eye. Combined these mean 'destroyer watches'. The shepherd carefully watches over the flock and the surrounding area always on the lookout for danger. When a predator comes to attack, the shepherd destroys the enemy."

Then as we move to the 3 character child root (YOD-SHIN-AYIN) the AHL says "(YShAh) ac: Rescue co: ? ab: ?: When one of the flock is in trouble, the shepherd rescues it."

this all somehow shapes the word for Yehoshua which strong's defines as "something saved, i.e. (abstractly) deliverance; hence, aid, victory, prosperity:—deliverance, health, help(-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare."

What is added from the 3 character child root is the HEY and VAV. HEY is the final character and turns this into a feminine noun. VAV is an image of a tent peg (hebrews were a tent dwelling nomadic people so tent language is common). It has a meaning of "Add, Secure, Hook" and probably where this "Behold the Nail" came from but I'm not going to speculate how this further defines the word.

Your "Behold the Hand" would come from the YOD which is the pictograph of an "arm and a closed hand" and has a meaning of "Work, Throw, Worship" it can have a concept of release which too me fits the 3 character child root and subsequent words as "throwing" can have an abstract concept of release and with words like rescue, deliverance, salvation, etc.. concretely it can develop an image of removing/unbinding and then a throwing away.... if I wanted to speculate further and apply it to Jesus there is a release and rescue from sin but it also a release and rescue from the law (certainly form the judgment of it) Something about an image of Jesus taking hold of our sin or taking hold of the judgment of the law and throwing it away seem powerful to me... but speculation will do that

What I find neat is this is in a shepherding context which isn't that unusual as the hebrews were basically nomadic shepherds so it's not that odd that shepherding language transfers to abstract concepts like salvation. The parent root meaning from the AHL is of "destroyer watches" is interesting when applied to Jesus but we can't read to much into it however it's not that odd as shepherds were strong symbols of authority, the shepherds hook itself is the pictograph of character LAMED and held an abstract concept of authority which has evolved into a King's scepter today... but I digress.

 

[Radagast]

SteveCaruso you are free to correct me on this as you seem to be more learnt in these areas but from my research the hebrew for Jesus is Yehoshua (Strongs H3091).

Even if you're right, Jesus' family and friends spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew. And the name the Bible uses is the Greek one.

In Paleo-Hebrew

The origins of Paleo-Hebrew letters are pure guesswork, and don't tell us anything about meaning.

 

[AFrazier]

A little Bible study that I did on the name of our Lord Jesus. What are your opinions on it? I believe that salvation is in the name of Jesus or in any of the previous forms of the name. People claiming only salvation under one transliteration of the name are making confusion and divide the body of Christ.

God bless in Jesus name.

The English pronunciation "Jesus" comes from the Latin "Iesus," which comes from the Greek "Iesous," which is the Greek version of Yeshua, which has been translated "Joshua" in English. We can call him Jesus, Yesus, Yeshua, or Joshua. It all amounts to the same thing in terms of identification. None are right or wrong. It's all really just a matter of pronunciation, and should rightly be decided by the language you speak in my opinion.

On a forum like this, where we all speak English, I think we should be referring to him as Jesus. It is the name we know and understand. It is the name that new Christians know and understand. It is the name unbelievers know and understand.

Using versions of the name from ancient languages, in my view, does nothing more than create confusion, and we know that God is not the author of confusion. When people have no idea who or what you are referring to because you choose to use a variant form of the name, you drive people away. Either they don't understand you, or they think you sound weird, and so you lose them.

Furthermore, the Apostles themselves, who surely all spoke Aramaic, never once throughout the gospels or the epistles referred to Iesous (Iesus in Latin, Jesus in English) as Yeshua. Thus, it seems to me rather presumptuous to take it upon yourself to use Yeshua rather than Jesus. The Apostles clearly did not find it necessary. By their example, neither should we. We are told that it is by the name "Iesous" that all men are saved, not "Yeshua."

It is also my opinion that most people using variant pronunciations, whose native tongue is English, are really just being pretentious. Often enough, they don't speak the language from which their chosen pronunciation is derived. They use it because deep down, they think they sound smart with their Hebrew names for things, even if they're not willing to admit it. Intentional or not, they pretend to a level of knowledge they don't sincerely possess. This is haughty behavior, and it is ungodly.

Because of the confusion it creates and the pretentious behavior that often accompanies the use of alternate pronunciations, I decided long ago that versions like "Yeshua" should be reserved for academic discussions, as in the case of this thread. Calling Jesus "Yeshua" in any and all casual conversation causes more harm than good, and should therefore be avoided.

 

[ConvictionofGod]

I think if you have a preference, it's OK to use that. However, He knows you mean Him, and that's all that matters.

Agreed, i don't actually think it matters, in Islam theres 100 names for Allah, (i was once muslim many years back). Certain churches might have a preference, in that regard their preference should be respected, but you, as a lone practitioner may call him any of the three.

 

[ConvictionofGod]

The English pronunciation "Jesus" comes from the Latin "Iesus," which comes from the Greek "Iesous," which is the Greek version of Yeshua, which has been translated "Joshua" in English. We can call him Jesus, Yesus, Yeshua, or Joshua. It all amounts to the same thing in terms of identification. None are right or wrong. It's all really just a matter of pronunciation, and should rightly be decided by the language you speak in my opinion.

On a forum like this, where we all speak English, I think we should be referring to him as Jesus. It is the name we know and understand. It is the name that new Christians know and understand. It is the name unbelievers know and understand.

Using versions of the name from ancient languages, in my view, does nothing more than create confusion, and we know that God is not the author of confusion. When people have no idea who or what you are referring to because you choose to use a variant form of the name, you drive people away. Either they don't understand you, or they think you sound weird, and so you lose them.

Furthermore, the Apostles themselves, who surely all spoke Aramaic, never once throughout the gospels or the epistles referred to Iesous (Iesus in Latin, Jesus in English) as Yeshua. Thus, it seems to me rather presumptuous to take it upon yourself to use Yeshua rather than Jesus. The Apostles clearly did not find it necessary. By their example, neither should we. We are told that it is by the name "Iesous" that all men are saved, not "Yeshua."

It is also my opinion that most people using variant pronunciations, whose native tongue is English, are really just being pretentious. Often enough, they don't speak the language from which their chosen pronunciation is derived. They use it because deep down, they think they sound smart with their Hebrew names for things, even if they're not willing to admit it. Intentional or not, they pretend to a level of knowledge they don't sincerely possess. This is haughty behavior, and it is ungodly.

Because of the confusion it creates and the pretentious behavior that often accompanies the use of alternate pronunciations, I decided long ago that versions like "Yeshua" should be reserved for academic discussions, as in the case of this thread. Calling Jesus "Yeshua" in any and all casual conversation causes more harm than good, and should therefore be avoided.

Latin
Case Singular
nominative - Iēsus
genitive - Iēsū
dative - Iēsū
accusative - Iēsum
ablative - Iēsū
vocative - Iēsū

 

[Ken Rank]

Can't be bothered with all this Shalom Shabbat hogwash and G-D and Hebrew roots bibles and praying to Yashua.

Load of nonsense and just another thing designed to distract the gullible and make them think there's something "new" that they need to discover.

A distraction from the evil one, no less and no more.

No, just misunderstood by those trying to draw closer to God. Unless you believe that all you know right now is all God will EVER expect you to know... then you can't take a position that rules out our understanding increasing as we draw closer to His return. These people, and I was one of them.. who thought that using a certain name matters... miss the point that God is who confounded the language at Babel. That means, God inspired all language and speaking to Him in the language we are raised in is acceptable to Him. So if that means we say Jesus, or Iesous (ee-ay-soos), or Yeshua, or hey-soos, or whatever it is one is raised in... I think that is fine. Because in the end, "calling on His name" has nothing to do with what we call Him and everything to do with calling on His authority and power. That is what "name" means in Hebrew... which matters since Yeshua was raised Hebrew.

 

[Ken Rank]

A little Bible study that I did on the name of our Lord Jesus. What are your opinions on it? I believe that salvation is in the name of Jesus or in any of the previous forms of the name. People claiming only salvation under one transliteration of the name are making confusion and divide the body of Christ.

God bless in Jesus name.

Those that claim a certain pronunciation have no clue how we got to Jesus nor do they have a clue what "name" even means to a Hebrew. They ended up picking a pronunciation that is in harmony with their CURRENT understanding.... and then they divide and polarize everyone around them. If God wants us to use a certain name, He will instill it in ALL His people to use that name. And I think a day might come where that is the case, perhaps in the Millennial Kingdom or beyond... but not today. God confounded the language at Babel which means He inspired ALL language. To think that He can only hear a certain pronunciation rather than a certain heart condition... turns whatever word we use into an "abracadabra" magic word and God into some genie who needs His bottle rubbed a certain way before He will answer. That turns a holy and righteous God into a pagan god.

 

[SeraTaru]

No, just misunderstood by those trying to draw closer to God. Unless you believe that all you know right now is all God will EVER expect you to know... then you can't take a position that rules out our understanding increasing as we draw closer to His return. These people, and I was one of them.. who thought that using a certain name matters... miss the point that God is who confounded the language at Babel. That means, God inspired all language and speaking to Him in the language we are raised in is acceptable to Him. So if that means we say Jesus, or Iesous (ee-ay-soos), or Yeshua, or hey-soos, or whatever it is one is raised in... I think that is fine. Because in the end, "calling on His name" has nothing to do with what we call Him and everything to do with calling on His authority and power. That is what "name" means in Hebrew... which matters since Yeshua was raised Hebrew.

The view I gave is *my* opinion and I'm happy with it.

You have *your* opinion and you're happy with it.

All's good.

 

[Ken Rank]

The view I gave is *my* opinion and I'm happy with it.

You have *your* opinion and you're happy with it.

All's good.

Well, it really isn't. When you say that the path I have been on for 22 years is "A distraction from the evil one, no less and no more" then you are either calling me and the hundreds of thousands if not millions (and growing daily) or Torah following/Jesus believing people "deceived" or you are revealing your own lack of understanding regarding our walk. I admit, there are a small (but loud) percentage of people like you mention that create an image that does not reflect the majority. I abhor what these people teach, there is no balance nor historical basis for most of what they teach. But for most of us, you'll find people that are simply trying to walk as Messiah walked... do as he did... and if you malign us for walking as he did... you malign him in the process.

The argument over what "name" one should say is the basis for this thread. On that we agree and should stop there. Otherwise, division and strife is caused between brethren and God "hates" that. (See Pro. 6:16-19)

Be blessed.
Ken

 

[Radagast]

If God wants us to use a certain name, He will instill it in ALL His people to use that name.

For example, by giving us a Greek Bible where Iēsous is the name?

And the Bible is rather harsh on preaching Torah observance. Read the Epistle to the Galatians, for example.