Millennial Considerations

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Marilyn C]

Faith will be over as to believing without actually knowing that God exists. These people at the end of the world will be judged how they treated others. The lake of fire will have been created already and the beast and false prophet put in it. The Gog war will end with fire out of heaven. Only wicked people have been dying. The resurrection of the unjust will take place. For the living people being judged time, Jesus seems to place that as the time of Him on the throne of glory. For the dead of the unjust rise time, John seems to see a new throne for the first time - a great white throne.

Hi vinsight4u,

Faith is over!!!! Where on earth or heaven did you come up with that doosie.

`For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power AND GODHEAD,, so they are with out excuse.` (Rom. 1: 20)

The `throne of His Glory` is referring to His authority, as the word `throne` in Gk. tells us. It is a throne of judgement I agree and it is the one that John saw with the lightnings and thundering of judgment, as all judgment is given into the hands of the Son, (the Father said).

However it is just the nations at that point being as how they treated Christ`s brethren, Israel. Do you ever look outside your back door (metaphorically) and wonder why many of the nations are coming against Israel?

`I will also gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; (outside Jerusalem) and I will enter into judgment with them there ON ACCOUNT OF MY PEOPLE, MY HERITAGE ISRAEL...` (Joel 3: 2)


No new earth & new heavens there bro. Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

2 Peter 3:7

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
This verse the present heavens and earth will be here until the ungodly men are judged. This means that the Gog war is over and how much time is to pass after that.

Have thought that the start of Rev. 21 is when the heavens and earth burn up. They flee away first and no place is found for them. This is similar to Revelation 12:8 as to their place is found no more in heaven. Where did it go? Was it burned up? The wicked angels no longer have their place in heaven, but it is gone as destroyed? Daniel 2 shows man's empire fall and become as chaff. The wind carries away and no place is found for them. Did they burn up?
Rev. 21 - passed away///2 Cor. 5:17 -shall pass away

Hi vinsight,

I hope you don`t mind my `humour.` in that last post. Not trying to put down or anything, just exclaiming.

And with this post, I do agree with you that Rev. 21 is where we read of the heavens and earth being burnt up. As to connecting that with Dan. 2 the Great Image represents all of the Gentile world Rulers down through the ages, with the Gentile`s last world empire going, that finishes the `times of the Gentiles.` (Luke 21: 24)

Then we see that God will restore the kingdom/rule to Israel as the 11 disciples said to Jesus when He was about to ascend. (Acts 1: 6) Different times there, bro.

PS. Glad we can agree on some things, regards, Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Then we see that God will restore the kingdom/rule to Israel as the 11 disciples said to Jesus when He was about to ascend. (Acts 1: 6) Different times there, bro.

Based on the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, who do you think God is going to restore the kingdom to?


On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.
Who was Peter talking to?

In the letter written by James he addressed it to "the twelve tribes".
Who was James talking to?

The fact of the matter is that when the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites.
Paul confirms this in Romans 11:1.
Paul still considered himself an Israelite after his conversion.
The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.
Paul provides no plan B, outside of the Olive Tree in the passage.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart once a person comes to understand the New Covenant of Christ.

However, some of us cannot let go of the doctrine brought to America by John Nelson Darby.

.

 

[seventysevens]

Look at Revelation 12 again. It makes a clear correlation between Satan being cast out of heaven and Jesus receiving his authority.

Revelation 12
But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb

Look. The brothers and sisters triumphed over the accuser by the blood of the lamb. How could this possibly have taken place before Adam was created? Before Adam there were no brothers and sisters and there certainly was no "blood of the lamb".

Obviously this happened when Jesus triumphed over death and established his kingdom. It doesn't get much clearer than this.

satan is currently in the 2nd heaven , where the stars , sun, moon are .
satan still has access to all the earth and he is called the prince of the air
When he makes his accusations of the people of God he is allowed access to the Throne of God which is the 3rd heavenly realm

Eph 2:2 (KJV)
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

When Jesus was crucified and shed His innocent blood Jesus exclaimed 'It Is Finished.
What he means is His task of shedding his innocent blood as a sacrificial lamb providing the method by which all of humanity can be saved from eternal damnation

By accepting that Jesus died on the cross and rose to life again to pay the penalty of death and repenting of your sins , asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins and believing in your heart that Jesus died to pay for your sins and that you believe that by being born-again in the spirit; of Thee Christ and will be among those that have overcome satan and death by accepting the free gift of eternal life obtained through the blood of the lamb Jesus.

People who accept Jesus gift of salvation and truly believe that Jesus will give them eternal life will love Jesus more than they love their own life ; even until death ,
some people may accept Jesus gift then love their own life more than Jesus when they are threatened their life will end if they don't submit to the Man of Sin direction , or it could be they are hungry and want food and accept the mark of the beast and forfeit eternal life with Jesus. ,

Jesus says people that lose their life for Jesus sake will have eternal life with Jesus
The book of Revelation is a book of prophecy about the things that will happen before Jesus returns to earth

Rev 12 shows that when the time of the Man of Lawlessness occurs Michael the Arch Angel and his angels fight satan and cast satan down to earth; this is when satan realizes that he has no more access to heaven and his time is short

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

When satan is cast out of heaven he is not bound at all , he is sent to earth and acts in the Man of Lawlessness to cause as many people as he can to worship him as God

This is when the mark of the beast will be implemented

In the near future satan will be cast down to earth and will seek to kill as many people as he can ,
so no satan is not yet bound and is still free to roam and access the Throne of God to make accusations of the people of God

 

[BABerean2]

In the near future satan will be cast down to earth and will seek to kill as many people as he can ,
so no satan is not yet bound and is still free to roam and access the Throne of God to make accusations of the people of God

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;



Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


The beginning of Revelation chapter 12 is a history lesson, which includes the fall of Satan and the wicked angels who followed him, and the birth and death of the "man-child" who will rule with a rod of iron, who is Christ based on Psalm 2.

The "air" to where Satan now resides, is confined to this planet.

God's Son sits at the right hand of the Father, and Satan is no longer welcome there in the presence of the Father and the Son.

There is no vision in the Book of Revelation that shows Satan and God together, during the time that John saw the events in heaven.

The verses above are all written in past tense.

.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi LastSeven,

Mmm I think you have me confused with `whoever.` Of course there is death in the millennium, as there are still mortals of the nations and of Israel, who are learning the ways of God, as God had purposed and then brings to fulfilment.

Marilyn.

When Jesus Christ returns the final judgment, eternal kingdom takes place. Matthew 25:31-46

There is no 1000 year millennium in scripture where Jesus hangs out on earth with mortal humans. Jesus warned the believer against this teaching Matthew 24:23-27

 

[seventysevens]

Wrong,
Your dilemma is that when you place scripture out of order or call future events that have not yet happened a history lesson you will always end up with a false interpretation ,angels who have chosen to leave their abode is not relevant to the topic

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;



Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


The beginning of Revelation chapter 12 is a history lesson, which includes the fall of Satan and the wicked angels who followed him, and the birth and death of the "man-child" who will rule with a rod of iron, who is Christ based on Psalm 2.

The "air" to where Satan now resides, is confined to this planet.

.

 

[seventysevens]

WRONG Again and will always be wrong as this has been proven wrong many times , but you keep repeating this folly , must be a desperation to to convince anyone who will sucumb to false teachings

When Jesus Christ returns the final judgment, eternal kingdom takes place. Matthew 25:31-46

There is no 1000 year millennium in scripture where Jesus hangs out on earth with mortal humans. Jesus warned the believer against this teaching Matthew 24:23-27

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I'm not sure why it's so difficult to spiritualize scripture when the entire book is about spiritual warfare.

Do you spiritualize Israel vs Literal Israel after the Cross? If you do not then why not?

 

[Truth7t7]

satan is currently in the 2nd heaven , where the stars , sun, moon are .
satan still has access to all the earth and he is called the prince of the air
When he makes his accusations of the people of God he is allowed access to the Throne of God which is the 3rd heavenly realm

Eph 2:2 (KJV)
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

When Jesus was crucified and shed His innocent blood Jesus exclaimed 'It Is Finished.
What he means is His task of shedding his innocent blood as a sacrificial lamb providing the method by which all of humanity can be saved from eternal damnation

By accepting that Jesus died on the cross and rose to life again to pay the penalty of death and repenting of your sins , asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins and believing in your heart that Jesus died to pay for your sins and that you believe that by being born-again in the spirit; of Thee Christ and will be among those that have overcome satan and death by accepting the free gift of eternal life obtained through the blood of the lamb Jesus.

People who accept Jesus gift of salvation and truly believe that Jesus will give them eternal life will love Jesus more than they love their own life ; even until death ,
some people may accept Jesus gift then love their own life more than Jesus when they are threatened their life will end if they don't submit to the Man of Sin direction , or it could be they are hungry and want food and accept the mark of the beast and forfeit eternal life with Jesus. ,

Jesus says people that lose their life for Jesus sake will have eternal life with Jesus
The book of Revelation is a book of prophecy about the things that will happen before Jesus returns to earth

Rev 12 shows that when the time of the Man of Lawlessness occurs Michael the Arch Angel and his angels fight satan and cast satan down to earth; this is when satan realizes that he has no more access to heaven and his time is short

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

When satan is cast out of heaven he is not bound at all , he is sent to earth and acts in the Man of Lawlessness to cause as many people as he can to worship him as God

This is when the mark of the beast will be implemented

In the near future satan will be cast down to earth and will seek to kill as many people as he can ,
so no satan is not yet bound and is still free to roam and access the Throne of God to make accusations of the people of God

As Barean stated satan is not in heaven with God.

More like Satan is before Gods throne because the earth is Gods footstool. Isaiah 66:1

 

[seventysevens]

As Barean stated satan is not in heaven with God.

More like Satan is before Gods throne because the earth is Gods footstool. Isaiah 66:1

I never said satan is with God , he has access to the THRONE of God
The Throne Room is like a courtroom , like a King has a throne and he sits on the Throne as Judge
Ha~satan is the accuser and he does not reside in the realm where God is but he is permitted to come before the throne to present his case in accusing the brethren

It be like you having to go to court to face a charge against you -- you are there only for the court proceedings then you leave - you don't reside there you are there Only on business of the court

The sky , the moon and the stars are not the Throne of God , not the 3rd heavenly realm where God resides

 

[Truth7t7]

I never said satan is with God , he has access to the THRONE of God
The Throne Room is like a courtroom , like a King has a throne and he sits on the Throne as Judge
Ha~satan is the accuser and he does not reside in the realm where God is but he is permitted to come before the throne to present his case in accusing the brethren

It be like you having to go to court to face a charge against you -- you are there only for the court proceedings then you leave - you don't reside there you are there Only on business of the court

The sky , the moon and the stars are not the Throne of God , not the 3rd heavenly realm where God resides

God has no residence, he is the Alpha and Omega, God Is Omnipresent Beyond the 1000th heaven

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


Where is the beast now?

.

Bottomless pit
The “bottomless pit” comes from the Greek word “abbusos,” where we get our word “abyss,” and it means a desolate empty place; similar to the word “void” in Genesis 1:2.

Could it be that a literal reading of the verse may not be telling us where the beast is but a discription of it.

Consider this if you would please

http://olivetjournal.com/the-bottomless-pit-and-the-beast/

"Starting with the original Scripture in the NKJV:

Revelation 11:7
“When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.”

Instead of the above, with my suggestions, Revelation 11:7 might have beenexpressed in this way:

“When they finish their testimony, the beast that will be ascending out of the bottomless pit, at that time, will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.” (my addition in Italic)"

We know that after the first resurrection there will be no humans alive on this planet thus it is a void as in Genesis

Rev 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Truth7t7]

Bottomless pit
The “bottomless pit” come from the Greek word “abbusos,” where we get our word “abyss,” and it means a desolate empty place; similar to the word “void” in Genesis 1:2.

Could it be that a literal reading of the verse may not be telling us where the beast is but a discription of it.

Consider this if you would please

The Bottomless Pit and The Beast

"Starting with the original Scripture in the NKJV:

Revelation 11:7
“When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.”

Instead of the above, with my suggestions, Revelation 11:7 might have beenexpressed in this way:

“When they finish their testimony, the beast that will be ascending out of the bottomless pit, at that time, will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.” (my addition in Italic)"

We know that after the first resurrection there will be no humans alive on this planet thus it is a void as in Genesis

Rev 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The resurrection of all John 5:28-29 takes place at the second advent and dissolving of this earth by the Lords fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Malachi 3:2, Nahum 1:5

Perhaps you don't see this earth being dissolved by fire?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[seventysevens]

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Those who satan shall deceive after the 1000 years are over are human , how can they not be ?

Bottomless pit
The “bottomless pit” comes from the Greek word “abbusos,” where we get our word “abyss,” and it means a desolate empty place; similar to the word “void” in Genesis 1:2.

Could it be that a literal reading of the verse may not be telling us where the beast is but a discription of it.

Consider this if you would please

The Bottomless Pit and The Beast

"Starting with the original Scripture in the NKJV:

Revelation 11:7
“When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.”

Instead of the above, with my suggestions, Revelation 11:7 might have beenexpressed in this way:

“When they finish their testimony, the beast that will be ascending out of the bottomless pit, at that time, will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.” (my addition in Italic)"

We know that after the first resurrection there will be no humans alive on this planet thus it is a void as in Genesis

Rev 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The resurrection of all John 5:28-29 takes place at the second advent and dissolving of this earth by the Lords fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Malachi 3:2, Nahum 1:5

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.

I think that your interpertation of the verses above might be off a lit bit as there are two ressurection spoken of, the resurrection of life and unto the resurrection of judgment, It does not say they are both resurrected at the same time.

Only those who have given their lives to Jesus and submitted to His authority will be resurrected at the Second Coming

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Perhaps you don't see this earth being dissolved by fire?

Yes I Do as that is what the Bible teaches. The timing of this is after New Jerusalem decends from Heaven and the second resurrection of the wicked takes place. It is called the lake of fire.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Exodus 15:18

“The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.”

Does this mean that all of the wicked kings had been taken down on the old earth and Jesus Christ/God was ruling from New Jerusalem for ever and ever on the new earth?

Short answer YES