Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?"

[PeaceB]

Thank you as I am in fact a Saint. The Bible says that ALL Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are saints. YES it does, just try and read the Bible and you will see that Paul address his letters to the "SAINTS in ............!

You my dear friend are free to believe anything you want to believe.

Yes, in the NT the word saints generally is used to refer to people alive on Earth. That is precisely why Revelation 8 tells you that the angels in Heaven can hear our prayers here on Earth.

You can start with a prayer to St. Michael tonight.

 

[Major1]

Isn't that the lynch pin of the system really. This notion of the priestly/laity system that says there are those who are set aside to be holy and all of us other folks get to be holy through them. The notion that others intercede on our behalf and we just show up, do a few hand gestures, repeat some prayers, but never understand or look for truth ourselves? Never really allowing the Holy Spirit to change the inward man through honest sanctification and repentance. Well you never really have to do any of that if another does it for you and you can take communion, confess to a man, and leave in good standing just to repeat the same things over and over again.

Yes. Absolutly an excellent point.

But then again, since the Bible is the authority of the Protestant believer, would he naturally quote the Scriptures which tell us that we are all equal under the eyes of God?

Galatians 3:28...............
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "

Galatians 3:28 ............
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "

YOU read that and conclude that YOU are just as equal to God as is the Pope or Billy Graham.

 

[PeaceB]

You just said..........
"If this were such a central part of Christianity surely it would have been defined as dogma within the first few decades of the Church, therefore we must reject it

Now I am Just asking.......did you mean to say that you reject the doctrine of the Trinity?

Yes, I am a Jehovah’s Witness secretly masking myself as a Catholic. Your brilliant investigative work has finally exposed me.

 

[Major1]

Yes, in the NT the word saints generally is used to refer to people alive on Earth. That is precisely why Revelation 8 tells you that the angels in Heaven can hear our prayers here on Earth.

You can start with a prayer to St. Michael tonight.

YOU just made my point my friend.

First of all, any Bible student will tell you that There is NO Church doctrine in the Revelation my dear friend. You are beating a dead dog with that idea.

Then, Personally right there is the difference I spoke of on AUTHORITY.

YOU just told me to start a prayer to ST. Michael. I would never say a prayer to an angel as it is strictly prohibited by the Scriptures but YOU would. Right there is the divide!

Matthew 6:9 ....................
"Pray then like this: Our FATHER in heaven, hollowed by your name"!!!!!!!!!!!
Our Father in heaven,

 

[Major1]

Yes, I am a Jehovah’s Witness secretly masking myself as a Catholic. Your brilliant investigative work has finally exposed me.

I did not ask you if you were a JW. I just asked if you reject the Trinity as that what is appears YOU actually did say and I wanted to be sure.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes. Absolutly an excellent point.

But then again, since the Bible is the authority of the Protestant believer, would he naturally quote the Scriptures which tell us that we are all equal under the eyes of God?

Galatians 3:28...............
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "

Galatians 3:28 ............
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "

YOU read that and conclude that YOU are just as equal to God as is the Pope or Billy Graham.

Yes, those who are truly in Christ we are one, neither Jew nor Gentile. But let's look at what Jesus said himself.

John 8
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Jesus told us not one above another. Jesus told us he is our intercessor. Jesus told us not follow traditions of men. Jesus told us not to repay evil with evil (inquisition, among other historical persecutions, foxes book of martyrs).

I will say this, it is not Catholic people that are the issue here, it is a false system of men usurping authority they were never given inserting their own made up traditions.

 

[Major1]

Yes, those who are truly in Christ we are one, neither Jew nor Gentile. But let's look at what Jesus said himself.

John 8
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Jesus told us not one above another. Jesus told us he is our intercessor. Jesus told us not follow traditions of men. Jesus told us not to repay evil with evil (inquisition, among other historical persecutions, foxes book of martyrs).

I will say this, it is not Catholic people that are the issue here, it is a false system of men usurping authority they were never given inserting their own made up traditions.

Agreed and the whole thing comes full circle to "authority" and who do we give it to.

Man/men who are sinners or the Word of God that is without error.

 

[PeaceB]

YOU just made my point my friend.

First of all, any Bible student will tell you that There is NO Church doctrine in the Revelation my dear friend. You are beating a dead dog with that idea.

Then, Personally right there is the difference I spoke of on AUTHORITY.

YOU just told me to start a prayer to ST. Michael. I would never say a prayer to an angel as it is strictly prohibited by the Scriptures but YOU would. Right there is the divide!

Matthew 6:9 ....................
"Pray then like this: Our FATHER in heaven, hollowed by your name"!!!!!!!!!!!
Our Father in heaven,

You really don’t have to use boldface and exclamation points to get your point across, you know. It is rather unnecessary for an infallible pope such as yourself.

We pray the Our Father every Sunday at Mass. Feel free to join us.

 

[PeaceB]

I did not ask you if you were a JW. I just asked if you reject the Trinity as that what is appears YOU actually did say and I wanted to be sure.

Relax a little. You will live longer that way.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

At the same time, 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 says all who preach the Gospel are united in Christ. We shouldn't look to be divisive.

It says in verse 10 that those that are in complete agreement are in Christ, not those that espouse different versions of the truth.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Thank you for your response which pretty much emphasizes my point. Can we not all agree on the essentials that Jesus Christ is Lord and embrace each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, while being more charitable over our differences?

Even Satan and the demons know and believe that Jesus is Lord... don't want to join in with them by being more charitable over our differences.

 

[truefiction1]

And of course the Protestants would immediately say to your post that the Bible is the highest authority and there is that rift again because the phrase...........
"Holy Tradition is the Life of the Holy Spirit in the Church" is not actually found in the Scriptures.

But it is found in Scriptures, in the Gospel of John, from our Lord's own Holy lips. What is not in Scripture is the teaching that Scripture is the highest authority.

 

[Basil the Great]

Well this seems like a rather weak argument. A Jehovah’s Witness may as well ask why did it take several hundred years for the doctrine of the Trinity to be defined? If this were such a central part of Christianity surely it would have been defined as dogma within the first few decades of the Church, therefore we must reject it.

It is essentially the same argument, except that the time periods are different (I suppose the same should also be said of Luther’s doctrines).

Yes, indeed, the same could be said for Luther's doctrines as well. The main flaw with Protestantism is that it does match up with the Early Church, as we know it anyway. It is possible that it matches up to the 1st Century Church, as we have little knowledge of such outside of the New Testament. There is little doubt that it does not match up to the Church from about 150 A.D. onward.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Even Satan and the demons know and believe that Jesus is Lord... don't want to join in with them by being more charitable over our differences.

I find this sentiment very sad. There is a far cry difference between other Christian bodies and Satan. Do you think your church is the only correct one, and do you think it an error to fellowship with Christians of a different stripe?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I do not believe in denominational superiority, only in truth as it's presented in the Bible. Jesus was very specific in what He said and it wasn't to join with others that don't believe what He taught.

 

[PeaceB]

I really do not accept the idea of "pop-mythological" over real history.

Now if I am mistaken, PLEASE post the correct teaching from the Bible which is the Protestant authority so that when we, YOU and ME do a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles.

Please post from Scriptures In the New Testament, the mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture.

If the early church was the Catholic church would not we all expect to see THOSE teaching somewhere in the writings of those who founded the early church????

What the Protestant believers will ask you to do is show them that if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity.

Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.
What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?

Hmm. The belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist goes back well before those dates. And the Catholic Church did not define the canon of Scripture until after those dates. Your argument fails.

 

[Hank77]

But it is found in Scriptures, in the Gospel of John, from our Lord's own Holy lips. What is not in Scripture is the teaching that Scripture is the highest authority.

Would you please clarify which verses you are referring to in John? Thanks

Yes, indeed, the same could be said for Luther's doctrines as well. The main flaw with Protestantism is that it does match up with the Early Church, as we know it anyway. It is possible that it matches up to the 1st Century Church, as we have little knowledge of such outside of the New Testament. There is little doubt that it does not match up to the Church from about 150 A.D. onward.

Examples of what doesn't match up, please. Thanks.

 

[Goatee]

It's people like Major1 that always try to bash Catholic doctrine. Again and again. This thread is yet another way of trying to bash Catholic doctrine!

The gates of hell will NOT prevail!

The Catholic church was started in the upper room at Pentecost. People hate that. They hate all things Catholic! I am proud to be a Catholic. This church is guided by the Holy Spirit. It has Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition entwined. It has survived 2,000 years of stormy seas.

Major1 and his gang of merry men will not sink this ship!

 

[Basil the Great]

Would you please clarify which verses you are referring to in John? Thanks

Examples of what doesn't match up, please. Thanks.

(1) Belief in literal body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist
(2) Veneration of saints, if not by 150, then soon thereafter
(3) Prayers for the dead
How is that for starters?

It should be noted though that there is little evidence in the first three centuries, that Marian veneration was anywhere at the level that it is today. That is one area where Protestantism is probably closer to the 1st Century Church than Catholicism and possibly the only key area, other than perhaps the Bishop of Rome being the head of the entire Church, as that remains a dispute between the EOC and the RCC.

 

[Hank77]

(1) Belief in literal body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist
(2) Veneration of saints, if not by 150, then soon thereafter
(3) Prayers for the dead
How is that for starters?

Thank you.
I thought there was something that I may have missed.