Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?"

[truefiction1]

I do not believe in denominational superiority, only in truth as it's presented in the Bible. Jesus was very specific in what He said and it wasn't to join with others that don't believe what He taught.

The critical Truth found in the Bible is accessible only by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides the True Church, as indicated in Scripture, and is present in this Church: the Orthodox Church. What other Church is there that has existed from the beginning, and which has not overthrown the teaching authority of the Holy Spirit and replaced it with some other, whether it be the infallible papal office held by fallible men, or infallible Scripture being read and interpreted by fallible men?

There is a Church that is the "pillar and foundation the of Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). This is so whether we accept it or not. It is not the Roman church with her pernicious, "logos biased" deviations from Holy Tradition, nor it's daughter: the widely scattered and doctrinally diverse protestant church along with its many and varied sectarian offshoots. It is the Orthodox Church.

This is not denominational superiority, or Orthodox triumphalism. Rather, it is the gift of God and the keeping of His promise to send the Holy Spirit to lead us into all Truth.

 

[truefiction1]

Would you please clarify which verses you are referring to in John? Thanks

John 16:12-16

 

[GingerBeer]

And here I thought that I had been really careful to be equally offensive to all.

Thanks for the opinion!

I will try to do better.

That's a good thing, I think.

 

[Hank77]

John 16:12-16

Thank you.

 

[truefiction1]

It's people like Major1 that always try to bash Catholic doctrine. Again and again. This thread is yet another way of trying to bash Catholic doctrine!

The gates of hell will NOT prevail!

The Catholic church was started in the upper room at Pentecost. People hate that. They hate all things Catholic! I am proud to be a Catholic. This church is guided by the Holy Spirit. It has Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition entwined. It has survived 2,000 years of stormy seas.

Major1 and his gang of merry men will not sink this ship!

The upper room at Pentecost was not in Rome. It was in the Orthodox Christian patriarchate of Jerusalem. I am humbled to have received the gift of the Orthodox Church, which has held fast to the Holy Tradition of the Apostles and not deviated from it. I'm not worthy.

 

[PeaceB]

The upper room at Pentecost was not in Rome. It was in the Orthodox Christian patriarchate of Jerusalem. I am humbled to have received the gift of the Orthodox Church, which has held fast to the Holy Tradition of the Apostles and not deviated from it. I'm not worthy.

You have all of the Sacraments. That is certainly worth being grateful for.

How do you know that the Orthodox Church has held fast to Tradition? Your Protestant friends certainly do not agree.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

My biggest problem (outside of the teachings/confusion the catholic church makes for new people) is that whenever I try to debate/convert someone they 99% of the time bring of christians are evil because of the crusades and they did it because God told them too. It drives me nuts. I have to explain the crusades were lead by the pope, not God. And it was done by catholics, not "christians" in general. Catholics, baptists, pentecostals, protestant.....whatever, they are all denominations/groups of varied christians.

Its like saying muslims, chrsitians and jews are all the same religion. Or that burgers, hotdogs, chicken are all the same because they are meat. They are versions of something, not the same thing.

BTW this doesn't mean I dislike catholics. Most everyone in my family (outside of my parents and wife) are catholic. Many couples we talk to/hang with are catholic. So for me this subject is more about how outsiders view everything.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It's enough to make a lesser person upset.

Us lesser people might disagree with you. You greater people might see us as upset, but we would argue that we are only energized by our enthusiasm for the subject.

until most of the rest of the world ends up falling into a gross descent into atheism, as we have seen in Western Europe, the birthplace of the Reformation.

The Reformation was born in the same place as Roman Catholicism. If Europe falls to atheism, then it comes by way of an initial falling into corruption from within the highest ranks of the Catholic Church. That Roman Catholicism really messed up big time is not the issue. They agreed with that enough to attempt some manner of reform on their own. The only thing left to debate is whether Protestantism is speeding along that descent, or whether it saved the collective bacon of Europe from falling into that proverbial fire much sooner.

Maybe the answer in the end is for Protestants, Catholics and Oriental Orthodox to all become Eastern Orthodox and make it one Church?

And then with full consensus we might fall as a single unit into destruction together. If we should all agree upon Orthodoxy, then let us do so separately. There's a very good reason why a ship's life boats are numerous and small.

You simply cannot accept the fact that your understanding of Scripture could be wrong

I, for one, am quite comfortable with that possibility. In fact, I expect it as a product of being human. What I simply cannot accept is the idea that your understanding of scripture could be right. There's a distinct difference between those two, which I hope you might understand.

We pray the Our Father every Sunday at Mass. Feel free to join us.

I think the Father heard and understood it the first time it was said. I'm seeking new and genuine messages to convey to my Lord.

This thread is yet another way of trying to bash Catholic doctrine!

Not originally. It was initially a very good analysis of the problem. I cannot reason to a common conclusion with you, because you cannot use the Bible (my authority) to prove your doctrine, and I refuse to try to use the Pope (your authority) to prove mine. We are at an impasse.

There is a Church that is the "pillar and foundation the of Truth"... It is the Orthodox Church.

You talk like a man bragging about having the most money to a world in need of a few bucks to buy bread.

 

[truefiction1]

You have all of the Sacraments. That is certainly worth being grateful for.

How do you know that the Orthodox Church has held fast to Tradition? Your Protestant friends certainly do not agree.

I know that the Orthodox Church has been kept in Truth by the Holy Spirit because 1 Corinthians 2 defines us, and is confirmed within me by the power of God. Maybe God will reveal to some of His select protestant worshippers many blessed things that they are not currently aware of. Maybe not. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of Lights (James 1:17).

 

[PeaceB]

I know that the Orthodox Church has been kept in Truth by the Holy Spirit because 1 Corinthians 2 defines us, and is confirmed within me by the power of God. Maybe God will reveal to some of His select protestant worshippers many blessed things that they are not currently aware of. Maybe not. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of Lights (James 1:17).

Hmm. Well is it possible that in the future God will reveal to you some blessed things of which you are not currently aware?

 

[Tutorman]

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

It's not just Catholics but anyone who disagrees with evangelicals gets beaten down. I am not Catholic or Orthodox yet agree with them on most things but because I don't fit the evangelical mode I get called all kinds of things including implying not being a Christian by some rapid evangelicals here. The problem is not authority but that you all want everyone to be like you all and if they are not then they are hell bound

 

[truefiction1]

Hmm. Well is it possible that in the future God will reveal to you some blessed things of which you are not currently aware?

I hope so.

 

[Goatee]

The upper room at Pentecost was not in Rome. It was in the Orthodox Christian patriarchate of Jerusalem. I am humbled to have received the gift of the Orthodox Church, which has held fast to the Holy Tradition of the Apostles and not deviated from it. I'm not worthy.

I believe that the Catholic Church is the true church too. Throughout the centuries it has been guided by the Holy Spirit. It has revealed truths to the world.

Mary, Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ, has been shown, by the Holy Spirit, through the Church, to be a very important figure indeed.

I thank God for the Catholic church

 

[concretecamper]

Rome speaks, it is settled.

Sounds like Augustine, a giant in the Church. And someone who lived a millennium before protestism

 

[Major1]

It's not just Catholics but anyone who disagrees with evangelicals gets beaten down. I am not Catholic or Orthodox yet agree with them on most things but because I don't fit the evangelical mode I get called all kinds of things including implying not being a Christian by some rapid evangelicals here. The problem is not authority but that you all want everyone to be like you all and if they are not then they are hell bound

I do not know where you are living but that just is not the case. I realize that is what you want to see but that is not reality.

The fact is just the opposite. The Catholic church says that it is only the Catholics who will go to heaven.

Pope Innocent III (circa 1160 - 1216 CE) is considered "one of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages..." 1 At the Fourth Lateran Council (a.k.a. the General Council of Lateran, and the Great Council) he wrote:

"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved."

Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:

"Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins.

Pope Eugene IV, (1388-1447 CE) wrote a Papal bull in 1441 CE titled Cantate Domino. One paragraph reads:

"It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart 'into everlasting fire

 

[Major1]

That's a good thing, I think.

Time will tell.

 

[Major1]

Hmm. The belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist goes back well before those dates. And the Catholic Church did not define the canon of Scripture until after those dates. Your argument fails.

Of course, what a surprise that your understanding of Catholic tradition is always superior to actual recorded history.

 

[Major1]

Relax a little. You will live longer that way.[/QUO

You will have to explain that to me. I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Roseonathorn]

If You ask any european atheist they will say that Tradition is that catholics and protestants or any Christian religious groups for that matter will always fight each other more than evangelize the unbelievers. So in that aspect we have all gone astray.

 

[Sola1517]

It says in verse 10 that those that are in complete agreement are in Christ, not those that espouse different versions of the truth.

So Paul distorted the truth? (1 Corinthians 1:11-13) This undermines the underlying theme of there are differing views in the Church. What I think Paul is really saying is that there ought to be unity in essentials an diversity in non essentials. And what is most essential besides the Gospel? As long as we can agree on that (and there are some that don't) then we can still come together and be united.