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Show me evidence for Noah's flood.

DogmaHunter

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The flood is not a myth it is a paradigm. There is a huge difference. Just like evolution theory is not a myth is it a paradigm. This is why we have paradigm shifts in science and even paradigm shifts in how we define evolutionary theory. A new synthesis: Neo Darwinism for example, makes for a paradigm shift.

We have an exact place and a exact point in time for Noah's flood. That makes the flood a paradigm because it is literal and not a metaphor.

I can give you an exact date and place detailing where the intergalactic emperor Lord Xenu has dumped the immortal Thetans that live inside our bodies.

But somehow, I have a feeling that you wouldn't be accepting that as evidence of it being an accurate claim.

You see.... merely elaborating on your claim, or piling on more claims, won't make your initial claim more believable or something... On the contrary actually: it renders it even LESS believable.
Because in the end, piling on claims makes matters worse: because now THOSE claims are ALSO in need of evidential support - on top of the original claims.

So the result here, is that you now need to present even more evidence then before....
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Surely though you could provide at leaast something of substance? This isn't hard if as you say there is in fact evidence of a scientific nature to support this.

I could say that I'm closely related to the Queen of England and scientific evidence would also be consistent with my claim too - doesn't make it real though. To demonstrate that is the actual case, I would require Evidence. Perhaps DNA Evidence, or birth records could be contributory (but not overwhelming) evidence too. Again, what you're providing here is wind and no evidence.

Really? I searched "satellite garden of eden" and got nothing of value (scientifically speaking of course). Here's some links and my observations off the first page:

Gerard Wakefield's Articles
This is a 2002 article (so I guess this is as far as they got...) talking about how they think they found a 'fossilized river' along with some but the search continues...

This article: Has the Garden of Eden been located at last? (which refers to this article: Has the Garden of Eden been located at last?) talks about the possibility of two locations, again refers to this fossil river and conjectures over how the original Garden of Eden could be buried under miles of sediments never to be found again.... but no evidence apart from the inferred connection because of the bible.

We then have this short article: Is THIS where the Garden of Eden stood? Researchers claim to have discovered biblical site which like the others (but more conveniently cuts out the 99% of conjecture beforehand) goes on to say that "No present topography or underground surface could possibly bear any resemblance to the pre-flood world.”, so again, no evidence...

Then there's this: http://www.israel-a-history-of.com/biblical-garden-of-eden.html- it seems though that this is just biblical references and conjecture with nought in the way of non-biblical references short of the archaeological work that has so far failed to yield anything of value in support of the biblical Adam and Eve in their garden of eden, a worldwide flood and of Noah and his family repopulating the world (or the middle east depending on your outlook..... neither of which bears out in the evidence btw).

There's also this: Proof of the Garden of Eden which is a rehash of some of the aforementioned links repeating the same ... <cough> "State of the Art" satellite imagery and archaeological discoveries (that still aren't definitive by their own admissions) from 1987 through 1996, and nothing since.

And Finally (for a fresh breath of rationality), there's This article from Creation.com: Has the Garden of Eden been found? - creation.com - Here the author lays out logical reasons why the two sites bandied around on 20 to 30 year old LANDSAT images and conjecture as being possible sites of the Garden of Eden are NOT contenders at all. I certainly don't agree with their reasons for discounting these locations as biblically substantiated, but nonetheless, they don't agree and give logically sound reasons (even though I believe flawed premises) to disregard all of these claims.
A point of observation here, Google Satellite imagery is much more accurate than these ones referenced in all these articles, perhaps someone somewhere has tried looking into all this since? Anyway, Doing my own research just highlights the fact you need to substantiate your case, I researched your nonsense and found nonsense. Feel free to pick up your game. If your God were real, and gave me a mind with which to reason, then who is he to complain when I reason in a way he doesn't like, how is that my mistake? How can you be sure some other God isn't set to condemn you for following the wrong God? As I understand it, the Egyptian Gods that predate the Judeo-Christian religions were trickster Gods (as were the Greek & Roman Gods that formed in their shadows too).

NONE of the high school biology text books spruik any nonsense about Adam and Eve or Noah and his family that we're all allegedly descended from. At least drop a reference to whatever it is thinks supports your claim so we can see it for the rubbish it actually is.

Nothing in this research about populations that are alive today speaks to there being an Abraham or Noah or even Adam. Feel free to present it if you have any...

I agree (with Evolution being fact), but I find that YEC and Fundamentalists frequently discount the Theory of Evolution because it doesn't support their pet belief, facts be damned... Since we're still very light on supporting evidence, perhaps any info about this mitochondrial eve (circa 150,000BCE) supporting your assertions might help your case??

Then for Pete's Sake, Supply Something, Anything at all to support your case!!! Why keep it all to yourself if you seem to think it's so relevant??

.... This has nothing to do with the Bible. There's nothing about anything to support your 'seeds on the Ark' conjecture - could you try explaining why this is supposed to support your claim?


You have an impressive mind....so did Einstein....wonder how he is doing at this moment....better a simple mind like me that has eyes to see.here’s a tidbit of “wisdom “ for you....God is not on trial here....YOU are
 
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Acts2:38

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An interesting proposition. How do you know?

I was surprised to find out myself, what the consensus was on reading level for the scripture. I didn't just pull this out of my hat. Look it up.
 
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ruthiesea

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Do you have a Phd in Botany? Are you an expert on the domestication of wild plants in the Middle East? Are you an expert on the Plants that we read about in our Bible. I would be glad to have a thread on this subject and we could talk about the various books written on the subject.
Do you have a PhD?

A PhD is not necessary for a person to have a lot of knowledge on a subject. There are intelligent people who read, study, and use critical thinking. That is why G-d blessed us with intelligence, curiosity, and the desire to learn (well, some of us).
 
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joshua 1 9

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Do you have a PhD?
I go to people with PhD's to learn what they have to offer. I do not go to people with a two year associate degree and expect them to be an expert. Right now I am reading Peter Corning. He has a PhD in Social Science. I quote people like Francis Sellers Collins an American physician-geneticist noted for his discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the Human Genome Project.

Do what you want with what the experts say. I am just the messenger.

"Son of man, give your people this message: The righteous behavior of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the wicked behavior of wicked people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins." Ezekiel 33:12 New Living Translation
 
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Speedwell

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I was surprised to find out myself, what the consensus was on reading level for the scripture. I didn't just pull this out of my hat. Look it up.
Here's the list from Bible Gateway:

  • Mounce — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • KJV — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • RSV — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • Geneva — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • WEB — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • NRSV — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • NASB — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • Amplified — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • MEV — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • LEB — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • ESV — 10+ (ages 15+)
  • J.B. Phillips NT — 10+ (ages 15+)
  • NABRE — 9+ (ages 14+)
  • NIV — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • CEB — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • NET — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • GNT — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • ISV — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • NKJV — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • HCSB — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • The Voice — 6+ (ages 11+)
  • NLT — 6+ (ages 11+)
  • CEV — 5+ (ages 10+)
  • GW — 5+ (ages 10+)
  • The Message — 4+ (ages 9+)
  • Living — 4+ (ages 9+)
  • ERV — 4+ (ages 9+)
  • NCV — 3+ (ages 7+)
  • ICB — 3+ (ages 7+)
  • NIrV — 3+ (ages 7+
Bible Translation Reading Levels - Bible Gateway Blog

Other sources appear to give similar numbers.
 
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joshua 1 9

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But somehow, I have a feeling that you wouldn't be accepting that as evidence of it being an accurate claim.
No but I do accept the Bible and Bishop Usshers book. What YOU do is up to YOU and YOU will be held accountable. My job is to deliver the message and you can do whatever you want to do with it once it is delivered. Does the UPS driver or the mail man care what you do with the pkg they deliver to you? They just deliver it.
 
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joshua 1 9

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As I've already demonstrated, Google searches don't support your case. YOU need to demonstrate why YOU believe this to support your claim that it's concordant to the Bible.
Are you bot? You always reply with the same response. Like a cat playing with a mouse. Let me know if you ever want to have a real conversation.
 
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joshua 1 9

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In Noah's defense, in the movie "Evan Almighty", Evan is also told to build a gigantic ark and at the end (spoiler alert) it just so happens that it's just a dam breaking.

So, as demonstrated in that movie, it is perfectly reasonable to build a physically impossible ark to save animals that don't even live in the area to be saved from a flood in that area, which otherwise wouldn't have affected them at all in the first place.

/end-sarcasm
We know what was saved on Noah's ark because there are experts on the domestication of ancient plants in the middle east. Science also has put a LOT of work into understanding how farming and civilization spread from the Middle East to the rest of the world.
 
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Acts2:38

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Paul tells us to AVOID the genealogies because of the endless arguments.

I never mentioned anything about genealogies. In your response right here to my prior statement, I merely mentioned that the bible is 5-7th grade reading levels. The consensus of many groups. My opinion is that the KJV and the likes, to me, would be a bit harder.

What I do know that is fact, is that the scripture is God breathed. God is the author. If the bible says the "high hills were covered under the whole heaven" then that is what happened. I also look to the Hebrew text to see the words involved. Like I said before, you are missing the context of the sentence structure.

I can only answer for myself when people ask me what I believe.

No, most of what I saw in this thread, was you posting and pushing your "opinion" as fact. If you were merely telling people what you believe, I might not have even said anything.

I agree that when it comes to my opinion, I can only mention what I believe. However, when the bible says something, it is no longer my opinion, but fact. Regardless of your false scientific findings by men who water the scriptures down and make the bible as nothing.

If you want to say the whole earth was flooded then that would mean the Bible is not true because all of the evidence snows us that the entire earth was not flooded at the time of Noah. That does not mean there was no world wide flood. We know that there was a world wide flood at time of Pangaea was broken up. Usually when the world was flooded with water the water was frozen and science calls this a snowball earth. If you read Jonathan Cahn's book about how the Bible is written to be a Paradigm then you can see that Noah's flood was written to be a Paradigm of a flood at a different point in time that involved the whole world. But if your going to say that Noah's flood around 4500 years ago was a world wide flood then you are going to have to say that science is not true. Because there is overwhelming scientific evidence to show us that Noah's flood was not a world wide flood.

Forgive me for not taking Jonathans Cahn's opinion to heart. He too must not see the context of sentence structure. His opinions clearly show he has little regard for the bible and what it says by expressing beliefs and opinions contrary to what the bible clearly states. I am reminded of 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

No it is not I that is refuting bible scripture, it is you. I have repeatedly mentioned the context of the scriptures I have listed which you have not been able to decipher. I really do not like sounding like an ogre but you are clearly having much difficulty understanding context and words used. Maybe it is because you wish for or are lured in false science, like evolutionary believing Atheists who say they have science to back their claims.

I believe the bible is true and 100% correct. I believe God when He says He does not lie, and I know God does not make mistakes. When God worded Genesis 6-8 the way He did through Moses, it is clearly stating the entire world. You just cannot get around verses like this....

Genesis 8:9 - But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

It baffles me, for you to say that you believe scripture, and then contradict with the silly notion of "local flooding".

Think about it. In the South Pacific there are over 10,000 islands. Each and every island has their own bio diverse ecology. Noah would have to go to every one of those islands, pick up the animals on that island, then after the flood take them back to where he got them. Actually if you study the islands you will see that the bio diversity was established during the ice age when the water level was a lot lower.

Noah didn't gather the animals my friend, God did. Noah was told to gather food and take care of the animals. God brought forth the animals as how else would a lion enter in the ark with a gazelle 2 by 2?

As far as your island statement, now it sounds like your just trying to find excuses. The landscape/environment was much different then before the flood. You should have known this. Whats to say the earth was not one large land mass before the flood? After all...

Gen.7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Tectonic movement? Was it on a mass scale?


But this is high school science and you do not want to go there and function at the level of a high school graduate. Which is fine with me if that is what you want to do.

I never said that I didn't want to go there. Quote me where I said this? Again, you are having problems with deciphering words/sentences/context. How in the world are you even going to debate anything rationally if you cannot understand?

Again, I say again, I merely said, the reading level of the bible is agreed upon as 5-7th grade reading levels.

I also take it that you have not read the link. That is okay though, I didn't expect you to do so. It's just that they too, bring about scientific evidence that the flood WAS world wide.
 
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Acts2:38

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Careful that you are not guilty of what you accuse others of. God does not give you the ability to judge me. He only gives you the ability to judge yourself and your own heart.

No, you misunderstand again, but that is not surprising anymore.

What I basically said, is if you say something happened in scripture, that did not happen regardless of what the bible said, then you make God a liar.

That has nothing to do with judging you. Besides, I can have righteous judgement John 7:24. However, we would be getting off topic. Let us end this part.
 
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Acts2:38

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O come on. Every point your making you learned somewhere. None of this is original to you. It is all someone else argument that has been around a while.

This has to be, by far, one of your most embarrassing posts. Not embarrassing for me, but for you. I hope you see how ridiculous this statement you made is.

None of your ideas are original as well. I am sorry to burst your bubble here. Of course I learn things. I also don't take peoples word for things until I come to the consensus on my own with the facts through study. Doesn't anyone?

No sir, you are not making any "original" arguments. Your making someone else's argument as well. Someone else who cannot see the context and you fell for it. For your sake, I hope you can delete your statement before more people see this. Maybe you were tired? Maybe I frustrated you? In that case I would recommend you take a breather and come back when you have composed yourself.
 
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Acts2:38

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Here's the list from Bible Gateway:

  • Mounce — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • KJV — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • RSV — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • Geneva — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • WEB — 12+ (ages 17+)
  • NRSV — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • NASB — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • Amplified — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • MEV — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • LEB — 11+ (ages 16+)
  • ESV — 10+ (ages 15+)
  • J.B. Phillips NT — 10+ (ages 15+)
  • NABRE — 9+ (ages 14+)
  • NIV — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • CEB — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • NET — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • GNT — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • ISV — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • NKJV — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • HCSB — 7+ (ages 12+)
  • The Voice — 6+ (ages 11+)
  • NLT — 6+ (ages 11+)
  • CEV — 5+ (ages 10+)
  • GW — 5+ (ages 10+)
  • The Message — 4+ (ages 9+)
  • Living — 4+ (ages 9+)
  • ERV — 4+ (ages 9+)
  • NCV — 3+ (ages 7+)
  • ICB — 3+ (ages 7+)
  • NIrV — 3+ (ages 7+
Bible Translation Reading Levels - Bible Gateway Blog

Other sources appear to give similar numbers.

Yea, see, I didn't just pull it out of my hat.
 
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joshua 1 9

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You will continue to get this response; I have given you plenty of scientific evidence to state the bible is 100% true.
I give you more then enough considering the media we have to work with.
 
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joshua 1 9

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But outdate abrahamic religion.
The genealogies are far from outdated because the current research in DNA verifies how accurate and true the genealogies are in the Bible. Soon they will have a family tree for the entire human race from the beginning. When you get to heaven you will be able to visit with your relatives going back to the very beginning. Evolutionary science tells us a lot about common ancestor and evolutionary science goes a LONG way to show how accurate and true the Bible really is.

Most all of the people on the 1500 by 1500 mile Arab Continental plate in the middle east consider themselves to be descendants of Abraham. This is the area that will become the New Jerusalem. Rev 21:2 "I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

280px-ArabianPlate.png
 

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yeshuaslavejeff

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yeshuaslavejeff

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Of course I learn things. I also don't take peoples word for things until I come to the consensus on my own with the facts through study. Doesn't anyone?
(note previous post) (this supports that)


But still, no, most people DO NOT seek the truth, thus if they are also UNwilling, as JESUS Said over Jerusalem, they perish.
 
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