Collusion...is there any doubt now?

[KCfromNC]

Often times getting multiple people's impression of the same event can be very enlightening.

Yes, I agree. For example, comparing the opinion piece you posted to a reliable news source is very enlightening.

This is exactly what the gospels do. They give the same story from four perspectives. And each person emphasizes what he tends to emphasize in his world view. And sometimes it even seems contradictory. I mean, do you want to get into a serious discussion about why one book says that before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows, Peter will deny Jesus three times, but another one says, "before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows twice...".

The obvious answer is that the books are made up fiction, just like the article you linked to. Sure, in both cases you can spin them lots of ways to get to an answer you wish were true but that's totally unconvincing to people who don't already believe. So yeah, good example but I'm not sure it helps whatever it is you're trying to show.

In any case, though, I'd much prefer to stay on topic and discuss the facts showing the Mueller investigation is leading to arrests and convictions related to the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia.

 

[Almost there]

Yes, I agree. For example, comparing the opinion piece you posted to a reliable news source is very enlightening.


The obvious answer is that the books are made up fiction, just like the article you linked to. Sure, in both cases you can spin them lots of ways to get to an answer you wish were true but that's totally unconvincing to people who don't already believe. So yeah, good example but I'm not sure it helps whatever it is you're trying to show.

In any case, though, I'd much prefer to stay on topic and discuss the facts showing the Mueller investigation is leading to arrests and convictions related to the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia.

Perhaps my post just before this one could shed some light. Regarding your comments about the gospels, what are you doing on a Christian forum site then?

It's kinda like me being on a horse lover's site. i.e. it's not my thing so I leave them to discuss their particular interest.

 

[KCfromNC]

It just keeps getting funnier.

Rep. Devin Nunes Demolishes The Russian Collusion Delusion

Wait, a member of Trump's transition team says that Trump's team didn't collude with Russia? Where have I heard that before - oh yeah, from some of Trump's guys arrested by Mueller for lying about their contacts with Russia.

 

[KCfromNC]

Perhaps my post just before this one could shed some light.

Nope, doesn't help explain why you posted an opinion piece where the opinions are based on things which are not true.

Regarding your comments about the gospels, what are you doing on a Christian forum site then?

Discussing politics. If you're bothered by forums where non-believers are allowed to post, there are other options on this very site.

 

[Almost there]

Wait, a member of Trump's transition team says that Trump's team didn't collude with Russia? Where have I heard that before - oh yeah, from some of Trump's guys arrested by Mueller for lying about their contacts with Russia.

Different guy.

 

[whatbogsends]

Often times getting multiple people's impression of the same event can be very enlightening.

This is exactly what the gospels do. They give the same story from four perspectives. And each person emphasizes what he tends to emphasize in his world view. And sometimes it even seems contradictory. I mean, do you want to get into a serious discussion about why one book says that before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows, Peter will deny Jesus three times, but another one says, "before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows twice...".

I mean, some would argue that that proves the bible is a bunch of made up baloney. To that I say, "Nobody goes there any more because it's too crowded." (see tag line)

I agree that we should look at multiple perspectives regarding any given topic before forming an opinion.

I don't weigh perspectives equally if one of those perspectives is shown to be playing fast and loose with the truth.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about the Bible, but when you start with the proposition that a source is the inerrant truth, you often get into the business of having to twist logic to ensure that source is consistent and trustworthy.

 

[KCfromNC]

Different guy.

Not sure what you mean. Nunes was on Trump's transition team : California Rep. Devin Nunes named to Trump's transition team. Given that plus his ethics issues I'm less than inclined to take him at face value.

 

[Almost there]

Discussing politics. If you're bothered by forums where non-believers are allowed to post, there are other options on this very site.

I'm not bothered. I'm just confused.

 

[Almost there]

Not sure what you mean. Nunes was on Trump's transition team : California Rep. Devin Nunes named to Trump's transition team. Given that plus his ethics issues I'm less than inclined to take him at face value.

He was not arrested.

 

[whatbogsends]

It just keeps getting funnier.

Rep. Devin Nunes Demolishes The Russian Collusion Delusion

You mean the same Devin Nunes on the Intelligence Committee who was sharing his findings with those being investigated and not sharing them with the other committee members?

Regardless of whether Trump colluding with the Russians was illegal or even unusual, it's pretty hard to deny at this point, that members of his administration and campaign team have repeatedly lied about their contacts with Russia.

 

[KCfromNC]

He was not arrested.

I was pointing out a parallel between him and another of Trump's team who denied things in similar ways. Maybe it is a total coincidence, but let's see how it plays out before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Almost there]

You mean the same Devin Nunes on the Intelligence Committee who was sharing his findings with those being investigated and not sharing them with the other committee members?

Regardless of whether Trump colluding with the Russians was illegal or even unusual, it's pretty hard to deny at this point, that members of his administration and campaign team have repeatedly lied about their contacts with Russia.

I disagree. I think it is possible that there was some lying going on with one or two guys, and about irrelevant stuff, but I'm still waiting to hear what specific crimes any are actually being accused of, and what, exactly, the Russians did for them. So far it's like the cops saying they are holding a guy for robbery but they won't tell us what he stole or from where. Just that he "committed robbery".

Yeah, sure.

So far, I see nothing here but politics as usual - swamp politics, that is. I don't understand why there is even an investigation other than for the usual political reasons.

I'm willing to say this out loud because I have a strong feel for where this is headed. The worst that may come out of this is another Skooter Libby scapegoat.

 

[KCfromNC]

You mean the same Devin Nunes on the Intelligence Committee who was sharing his findings with those being investigated and not sharing them with the other committee members?

He was also part of Trump's transition team. Maybe someone should start a thread to discuss the possibility of some collusion going on. You know, so we don't distract from this one discussing whether people who don't own horses should post on horse owner's forums.

 

[KCfromNC]

I disagree.

Good for you. But unless you're going to share your thinking why it doesn't appear you have any good reason to.

 

[whatbogsends]

I'm not bothered. I'm just confused.

I can't speak for KC, but i'm an atheist on this site that had previously debated Christian apologetics back when this forum had an area for that content. Regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of Christianity, it definitely has an impact on my life, because, as an American, I encounter Christians in pretty much every facet of my life.

I continue to debate on "ChristianForums" because as an American, Christianity and its adherents have a significant impact on our country, and very much so in politics. It has so much impact on politics, that being a non-Christian is still essentially a non-starter for an office such as the President due to bias prevalent among Christians which represent a majority of Americans.

 

[Almost there]

I can't speak for KC, but i'm an atheist on this site that had previously debated Christian apologetics back when this forum had an area for that content. Regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of Christianity, it definitely has an impact on my life, because, as an American, I encounter Christians in pretty much every facet of my life.

I continue to debate on "ChristianForums" because as an American, Christianity and its adherents have a significant impact on our country, and very much so in politics. It has so much impact on politics, that being a non-Christian is still essentially a non-starter for an office such as the President due to bias prevalent among Christians which represent a majority of Americans.

Thank you. That is exactly the answer I was fishing for.

I suppose if I was constantly coming into close contact with horseback riders on the roads where I live, I'd be active in the political threads on their sites, at least to some degree. Well, maybe not. I dunno. Gimmee another beer.

 

[whatbogsends]

I disagree. I think it is possible that there was some lying going on with one or two guys, and about irrelevant stuff, but I'm still waiting to hear what specific crimes any are actually being accused of, and what, exactly, the Russians did for them. So far it's like the cops saying they are holding a guy for robbery but they won't tell us what he stole or from where. Just that he "committed robbery".

Yeah, sure.

So far, I see nothing here but politics as usual - swamp politics, that is. I don't understand why there is even an investigation other than for the usual political reasons.

I'm willing to say this out loud because I have a strong feel for where this is headed. The worst that may come out of this is another Skooter Libby scapegoat.

There was lying going on with: Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, and Trump Jr that has been confirmed. It's more than one or two guys, and they are people close (or in) Trump's inner circle.

If there weren't any specific crimes they were trying to hide, lying under oath (or on federal clearance forms) isn't wise thing to do.

There has always (at least in the modern era) been swamp politics in DC, and Trump is not draining the swamp as he campaigned on, rather he is neck deep in swamp politics himself, and has been digging the swamp deeper in many parts. (hint: replacing the old crocodiles with new crocodiles isn't draining the swamp, it's business as usual)

 

[Almost there]

There was lying going on with: Flynn, Sessions, Kushner, and Trump Jr that has been confirmed.

I disagree. I remember that in some cases it was only "lying" in the same way that me saying I never met with black people was a lie since I shook hands with a couple of black guys at a dinner event.

I don't see that as something that rises to the level of lying.

And then there is the guy who meets with people with Russian citizenship all the time in their job as do most members of congress, but says he never met with "the" Russians.

I think a lot of these people shouting collusion are like the guy in The Jerk shouting, "HE'S NOT CARNIVAL PERSONNEL!"

I'm still waiting to find out what actual crime was committed. The press implies "russian collusion" but never gets into specifics. I confess that it is a source of entertainment for me. I'm not worried about how it will turn out, so I can enjoy it. I'm a little like the tourists in the movie, "The Grand Tour".

 

[KCfromNC]

I disagree. I remember that in some cases it was only "lying" in the same way that me saying I never met with black people was a lie since I shook hands with a couple of black guys at a dinner event.

You might also remember that a Trump campaign official was convicted based on his lying about his contacts with Russians.

And then there is the guy who meets with people with Russian citizenship all the time in their job as do most members of congress, but says he never met with "the" Russians.

Yeah. Weird someone who claims something is routine also feels the need to lie about it happening.

I'm still waiting to find out what actual crime was committed.

One of the crimes was lying to investigators about their contacts with Russians. Kinda weird someone would feel the need to do that if there really wasn't anything illegal going in in those meetings.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The real collusion was and is between Democrats and the mainstream propaganda media.