The Church is absolutely unnecessary.

[DavidFirth]

Im on medication as well. At first i thought it was a lack of faith, but then after much concern from my family i got on meds. Its helpful.

I think God gave us doctors and medicines with good reason.

 

[W2L]

That would be the one holy catholic and apostolic church.

What Church is that, in your opinion.

 

[W2L]

I think God gave us doctors and medicines with good reason.

I agree.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

Scripture both outlines our worship in a church body and it outright commands it in Hebrews 10:24-25:
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

The body has teaching and guiding duties toward one another...you seemed to have missed a lot in your reading or something...or do you give yourself license to break the Word?

 

[dqhall]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

Some people stayed at home and watched church on TV.

Kenneth Copeland built an 18,000 sq ft house near his office and private airport using gifts and offerings from his television outreach:
Celebrity Homes: Kenneth Copeland's 18,000+ Sq. Foot Lake House on Eagle Mountain Lake - Includes Airport!

 

[Philip_B]

What Church is that, in your opinion.

I don't have an opinion on it, I have a faith in it which I express every time I say the Nicene Creed.

And that faith does not find its expression in dividing and separating, but in building and binding, that we may be one, just as Jesus and the Father are one.

 

[Anguspure]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

Worship is everything that happens because we are part of the Church. The act of worship is in all things in service to our God.

The necessity of the Church community lies in edifying and encouraging one another towards even greater acts of goodness in service of Christ Jesus.

My experience has been that in so far as I am isolated from daily interaction with other parts of the body (and for the most part only get offered participation in singing and listening to a sermon when I am within proximity), then my life with God hits a wall and does not proceed far beyond that.

 

[A_Thinker]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.

Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

God is a God of families.

In Christ, God explicitly placed us into a spiritual family, with whom He commands to share fellowship.

"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together ..."

Hebrews 10:20-25

We are to encourage and minister to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Sola1517]

Your thoughts?

That might be correct. After all, the persecuted church don't have buildings.

At the same time, I hardly ever connect to the people I go to church with. We just don't click.

For me church is about hearing from God. Don't get me wrong, the people are great. I just think they're inauthentic.

 

[DavidFirth]

That might be correct. After all, the persecuted church don't have buildings.

At the same time, I hardly ever connect to the people I go to church with. We just don't click.

For me church is about hearing from God. Don't get me wrong, the people are great. I just think they're inauthentic.

That's sad. Maybe you should pray and find another church?

 

[Sola1517]

That's sad. Maybe you should pray and find another church?

I'm in a certain situation to where I'm able to learn but I just don't fall in line with what they think is important. It's a blessing and a curse. I'm okay.

 

[DavidFirth]

I'm in a certain situation to where I'm able to learn but I just don't fall in line with what they think is important. It's a blessing and a curse. I'm okay.

Cool. But I pray you'll one day find a church that feels your love and loves you in Christ. Blessings to you.

 

[Devin P]

That might be correct. After all, the persecuted church don't have buildings.

At the same time, I hardly ever connect to the people I go to church with. We just don't click.

For me church is about hearing from God. Don't get me wrong, the people are great. I just think they're inauthentic.

Exactly. I felt that same way. There's always a couple people from a church or two that you can really click with, but mostly, just people you see each sunday and awkwardly smile at.

That's the beauty of house churches though. You get way closer to those that you celebrate and worship with because there's less of you. It's not about upholding an image, at least it shouldn't be. Especially if you celebrate and worship God's Holy Days (Moadim) because you guys become so close to one another. There's an appointed time called sukkot, or feast of tabernacles. You literally spend a week essentially camping together, you have no choice but to get close and thrive with one another. It's awesome. That, and house churches give everyone a time to speak, they encourage each of us to share our own little piece of what God has revealed to us during the weekly reading, we each get to learn how to preach, how to teach, and you learn much more because there's no scripted speech that a pastor is giving. It's you guys just going with the flow. Sometimes you get all the way through the reading, sometimes you're so taken away with the discussion, edifying one another and uncovering things in the word that you don't quite make it all the way through, but it's awesome. Reading in this way, allows you to grow much more than in a traditional pastor speaking only type setting. Plus, it weeds out those coming just for face or tradition. It's just those that want to grow closer to Him, that want to learn how to be of use to His kingdom - or at least how to allow Him to work through us enough so we're of use.

 

[Sola1517]

Exactly. I felt that same way. There's always a couple people from a church or two that you can really click with, but mostly, just people you see each sunday and awkwardly smile at.

That's the beauty of house churches though. You get way closer to those that you celebrate and worship with because there's less of you. It's not about upholding an image, at least it shouldn't be. Especially if you celebrate and worship God's Holy Days (Moadim) because you guys become so close to one another. There's an appointed time called sukkot, or feast of tabernacles. You literally spend a week essentially camping together, you have no choice but to get close and thrive with one another. It's awesome. That, and house churches give everyone a time to speak, they encourage each of us to share our own little piece of what God has revealed to us during the weekly reading, we each get to learn how to preach, how to teach, and you learn much more because there's no scripted speech that a pastor is giving. It's you guys just going with the flow. Sometimes you get all the way through the reading, sometimes you're so taken away with the discussion, edifying one another and uncovering things in the word that you don't quite make it all the way through, but it's awesome. Reading in this way, allows you to grow much more than in a traditional pastor speaking only type setting. Plus, it weeds out those coming just for face or tradition. It's just those that want to grow closer to Him, that want to learn how to be of use to His kingdom - or at least how to allow Him to work through us enough so we're of use.

Are you Messianic?

 

[Devin P]

Are you Messianic?

Nah, we just follow the way of the Messiah. We're not Jewish or anything though no. You don't really have to be for the feast days to be for you. All throughout the bible Israel is compared like unto an olive tree. And Paul tells us that there's two olive trees:

A wild one, that is not manicured, that's left to itself without a caretaker. It gets diseased and destroyed by bugs, growing rampantly and out of control, left to the elements. No one to make sure it's got enough water. No one to make sure it's got enough nutrients and that it's growing properly.

Or, a cultivated olive tree that grows with a caretaker watching over it, to make sure it's watered, that it's got the right nutrients. A caretaker that'll ensure it's free of disease, and harmful pests, that it's pruned and well taken care of.

He says that we are by faith grafted into this good olive tree, and that good olive tree is Israel. By faith, he goes on to say that we are grafted into the commonwealth (people / nation) of Israel. The caretaker being God, and the root and stability of the olive tree being Jesus. There is no gate or salvation for the gentiles, because gentile simply refers to someone out of covenant with God. Those out of covenant, God has no part with. So, by having faith on God, you are brought into covenant, and are part of Israel, and therefore have a place in His inheritance.

There's dozens and dozens and dozens of other verses and chapters as to why I feel this is truth, but I'll spare you the lecture haha.

 

[SBC]

Generally speaking, I'd agree...and that is the position taken by the church itself in the very early years when hermits were separating themselves from ordinary society, and again in the late Middle Ages when recluses became a feature of Christian life.

But the church, while recognizing these people and their dedication, still preferred that they not detach themselves totally (which is why it gave its approval to communities of monks which represent something of a halfway position).

I simply recognize HISTORY.
God created and made EVERYTHING - VERY GOOD.

God GAVE mankind authority over their "habitat", ie the Earth, AND
God GAVE mankind freewill.

It is BY and THROUGH mankind's "freewill", that mankind "exercises his authority" over the earth.

Everything mankind has thought, done, in the "exercising of his authority";
Has BECOME "corrupted".

So YES, while Churches ARE established with "good" intentions -

WE ARE WARNED - Something calling itself "a Church", IS NOT, the "measure" by which to TRUST; WHAT it may or may not TEACH.

"THE MEASURE" - "of what ANY established Church Teaches", IS TO BE DISCOVERED,
BY THE LISTENER.

"THE DISCOVERY" - is so discovered BY THE LISTENER, WHO, Searches the Scriptures,
TO DISCOVER, "IF" what the Church IS TEACHING, "IS" TRUE, according "TO" the Scriptures....AND "IS" TRUE, "according TO":

God's Understanding "OR" Man's "mindful" Understanding.

Because:

Rom 8
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:

I am not reluctant to say, Churches, invite listeners to hear; they do.
I am not reluctant to say, Churches, teach listeners to know; they do.

I am reluctant to say; ALL CHURCHES, teach:
"according to God's TRUTH and God's UNDERSTANDING."

And that is WHY men ARE WARNED, to be AWARE of WHO is teaching you WHAT.
And that is WHY men ARE WARNED, to FLEE away from, CORRUPTION. (wherever it is being taught you, including Churches, but not excluding other places or things).

So, an individual, (the listener) has the obligation to DISCOVER, WHO is teaching him WHAT.

And the individual, (the listener) has to DECIDE, "IF" a "little" corruption being TAUGHT is OKAY, or not.

As I have personally, Heard testimony OF MEN, who SAY; They belong AS MEMBERS of a particular Church; And ARE IN AGREEMENT, with "SOME" things they are "TAUGHT",
BUT NOT, "ALL THINGS" they are TAUGHT, do they DISCOVER "ARE" in agreement WITH Scripture.

My wonderment IS, WHY are they "ACCEPTING", to "continue" their "EARS" to be FILLED with what IS NOT in "agreement" WITH GOD?

Does not "corruption" in the punch-bowl, "corrupt" the whole of the punch?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Albion]

As I have personally, Heard testimony OF MEN, who SAY; They belong AS MEMBERS of a particular Church; And ARE IN AGREEMENT, with "SOME" things they are "TAUGHT",
BUT NOT, "ALL THINGS" they are TAUGHT, do they DISCOVER "ARE" in agreement WITH Scripture.

My wonderment IS, WHY are they "ACCEPTING", to "continue" their "EARS" to be FILLED with what IS NOT in "agreement" WITH GOD?

Does not "corruption" in the punch-bowl, "corrupt" the whole of the punch?

I hear you, but none of that indicates that the church, as an institution, is either unnecessary or useless.

 

[salt-n-light]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

"We don't need the church" concept, not biblical.

Now that that's out of the way, then we can further discuss why people feel that church is useless. You gave points that are interesting on how people view church that I hear alot.

• Church is nothing more than to enhance your social life
• If Church was more responsible and gave to the homeless then that would change your mind
• The "mystics" got it right by rejecting church worship and took worshipping God their own way.
• Church is just another business that employs people.

All these points I hear alot, and yet no scripture is ever coupled with that. Not even when defining what the church really is, somehow its not followed by or based on what Jesus said about the church.Its one thing to say, I can't support this church because its not in alignment with scripture,or the type of worship they are practicing isn't of God, but its another to say that church is pointless and all we need is the bible.

We are the church, you can't be a church by yourself.That's not to say that you have to be in a building, but do not forsake the assembly of the saints (Hebrews 10:25). For the more bigger organized churches that were address in the bible, Paul laid out the officers at hand that would be of support (pastors, teachers, apostles,etc.).But thats not to say that if you had smaller ones, that God will not bless that, if two or three are gathered God is with them (Matthew 18:20). The size does not matter, how the building looks does not matter, both have pros and cons. But its the point of whether or not the church is actually functioning by the scriptures.And yes, many don't, but some do. But church is there, created, and established with rules for a reason.

To know though that the gathering of the church is not scriptural, requires the person judging it to be able to discern. Some people that leave church, can leave because something is off, but its never justifies or testing out by the Word. Hence the laundry list of things they wanna see to convince them otherwise (we should give more, they should be perfect, they are just places of business). What ends up happening is that 1) you despise bigger churches and their members based on leaning on your own understanding 2) you justify your views on church and start to put a fence on those who may be your own brothers and sisters in Christ 3) it gets substituted for another ideology, which is basically making your own standards of church.

To want the fellowship of God and reject the fellowship of the church, its like how do you love God and not love your brother? How do you want to be only with the Father, and not want to be with your brothers and sisters? How is that being a family, because the church, the body of Christ is a family.Having a personal relationship doesn't mean rejecting the church, because part of being with the Father is also being his kid, and being among the other kids who are your siblings. And learning how to be around them and playing nice. Because your Father loves you and loves them, and wants to be around his kids that also would protect, love, and correct one another in peace. In the physical world, if anyone was to say "Oh i talk to my dad everyday, but I don't really hang with my brother although we live together" it would be strange. You would think there's tension there. Tension among siblings, even if its justified, is never pretty. You can watch any reality tv show or court case.

So yes the frustration is there, but the church is family. Don't reject it because some of your siblings aren't being nice or fair or doing foolishness. Love them and help them out through scripture and patience. There's no peace estranging yourself either, and its not biblical to.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

Perhaps the church is not necessary but for me I am guided by the Holy Spirit to gather together in fellowship with my Christian brothers & sisters. The Bible encourages us to gather together in fellowship.

 

[salt-n-light]

I agree, but outside of that the church is useless.

Like I said, if a church offers help to the needy, then that's good. But outside of that, the church is nothing more than a dignified social medium. At least more dignified than a nightclub.

If we really wanted to make a difference, we should volunteer or donate to charitable organizations instead of visiting a place to compare clothing.

So far even among the more corrupt church, i have not seen an organized church yet that has not given to charity. If you know one, that you can name them in the post, and I will call them for you.

But know that our commission is to share the gospel and to make disciples. We give not to justify our faith or to brag on works, but through our faith and because of the love God show us, we show mercy on others. Mercy gives room for salvation, but mercy isn't salvation itself. Church giving to charities will help make it easier to know the love of God, and our heart should be not to make it hard, just as Jesus fed the multitude, but charity is not a sure way of " making a difference", showing mercy doesn't ensure their salvation. Jesus does. Give them water, but point them to Jesus that they may not ever thirst again. Make no mistake, there will be many that will cry out to God, "didn't I do this in your name?" and God will not recognize them in the end. There will be many who although receive sufficient grace and mercy from God and are given blessings, that will still reject the Giver.

"dignified social medium, more than nightclubs", such spite, I think my heart is grieving for you my brother, which church have wronged you? Who has discouraged you? Which man has deceived you into thinking that only charity will make a difference?