It's Not Too Soon to Debate Gun Control

[Almost there]

And how many citizens are killing other citizens in europe with guns?

As in all countries, they use what's available. That is why those kooky Scottsmen are trying to ban pointy knives.

 

[bhsmte]

As in all countries, they use what's available. That is why those kooky Scottsmen are trying to ban pointy knives.

Murder rates are much lower in Europe, so I would think that is a good thing.

UNODC murder rates, most recent year[1]RegionRateCount
Americas16.3157,000
Africa12.5135,000
World6.2437,000
Europe3.022,000
Oceania3.01,100
Asia2.9122,000

 

[Almost there]

Murder rates are much lower in Europe, so I would think that is a good thing.

UNODC murder rates, most recent year[1]RegionRateCount
Americas16.3157,000
Africa12.5135,000
World6.2437,000
Europe3.022,000
Oceania3.01,100
Asia2.9122,000

Misleading. Extremely so. Take away three or four urban centers (the usual suspects) from the US, and the murder rate drops like a rock. It's not guns. It's the culture. And it is the culture of a few violent areas within the US. We are diverse. Diversity is not a good thing.

The 30 cities with the highest murder rates in the US

 

[LostMarbels]

I was simply commenting on the fact we shouldn't take our founding father's words as gospel, especially when it comes to things that have changed with time. I support gun rights.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Basic modern day breakdown:
Since a well-regulated armed citizenry is necessary for a state to remain free from oppression, and is needed for their own security; the rights for citezens to keep and bear arms will not be taken away.

This is all about the right of insurrection. The right of insurrection is not a law but rather a natural or 'God-given' right. When held captive or when having your rights oppressed, it is the natural right of a person to rise up against their oppressor and defend those freedoms endowed to them by their creator. That is what the second amendment is about.

In political philosophy, the right of revolution/insurrection is the right or duty of the people of a nation to overthrow a government that acts against their common interests. Stated throughout history in one form or another, the belief in this right has been used to justify various revolutions including the English Civil War, American civil war, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution.

This is why governments fear this amendment. It gives citizens the right to remain armed, and fight back if oppressed. This is why those who fought in the south weren't rounded up as war criminals and hung for high treason. They had the right to succeed, and the right to oppose what they felt was an oppression to their lives. What the union felt was that the south did not have the right to succeed and split the nation for despicable reasonings, aka slavery.


John Stuart Mill on “the sacred right of insurrection” (1862)
"It seems to me a strange doctrine that the most serious and responsible of all human acts imposes no obligation on those who do it, of showing that they have a real grievance; that those who rebel for the power of oppressing others, exercise as sacred a right as those who do the same thing to resist oppression practised upon themselves. Neither rebellion, nor any other act which affects the interests of others, is sufficiently legitimated by the mere will to do it. Secession may be laudable, and so may any other kind of insurrection; but it may also be an enormous crime. It is the one or the other, according to the object and the provocation. And if there ever was an object which, by its bare announcement, stamped rebels against a particular community as enemies of mankind, it is the one professed by the South. Their right to separate is the right which Cartouche or Turpin would have had to secede from their respective countries, because the laws of those countries would not suffer them to rob and murder on the highway. The only real difference is, that the present rebels are more powerful than Cartouche or Turpin, and may possibly be able to effect their iniquitous purpose."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Out politicians and pundits are trying to frame mass shootings not as a gun problem, but as a mental health problem.

Question: if this is the case, why is it then that women, who presumably are just as suceptible to mental illness as men, are only responsible for about 1% of mass shootings?

 

[Almost there]

Out politicians and pundits are trying to frame mass shootings not as a gun problem, but as a mental health problem.

Question: if this is the case, why is it then that women, who presumably are just as suceptible to mental illness as men, are only responsible for about 1% of mass shootings?

Probably for the same reason that, though women attempt suicide at a much higher rate than men, men actually commit suicide at a much higher rate. Men and women behave badly in different ways. When men act badly, they do things that send them to prison. When women act badly, they do things that ruin people's lives, but break no laws. It's why there are so many men in prison compared to women.

This is why all those movies with women as the tough protecer are comedy gold for me. It's fantasy. An average man who doesn't work out could crush a woman body builder. It's just the way we're built.

 

[tall73]

If you took the FBI statistics on homicides for 2016 and counted only the NON-firearm homicides, we would still have a rate around that of England. No guns needed. We have more than a gun problem. We have a huge violent mentality problem.

 

[bhsmte]

If you took the FBI statistics on homicides and counted only the NON-firearm homicides, we would still have a rate around that of England. No guns needed. We have more than a gun problem. We have a huge violent mentality problem.

Nailed it.

Guns just make it easier for certain people to kill and to kill more people in a short period of time. With that said i agree, the issue is a violence culture, which makes more people willing to use guns to kill more people.

 

[wing2000]

Also, my point is that it is easy to declare Islam a political system rather than a religion.

It's easy for you to declare Islam a political system. I submit any number of groups from any religion could be branded as such (essentially anytime a religious group takes action to effect change in the political arena).

Are you suggesting we should grant that power to our federal government?

Could we still have fought against Nazism if they declared Hitler their divine ruler.

Certainly. We declared war on the state of Germany.

Come to think of it, I think that was what was going on with Japan during WWII.

Sometimes a "religion" gives up their first amendment protection in the same way you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. And the actual teaching of Islam is damning enough.

Yes, we went to war with the state of Japan.

THe United States has never declared war on a religion...nor should it.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Probably for the same reason that, though women attempt suicide at a much higher rate than men, men actually commit suicide at a much higher rate. Men and women behave badly in different ways. When men act badly, they do things that send them to prison. When women act badly, they do things that ruin people's lives, but break no laws. It's why there are so many men in prison compared to women.

And you don't think society has any role in that?

This is why all those movies with women as the tough protecer are comedy gold for me. It's fantasy. An average man who doesn't work out could crush a woman body builder. It's just the way we're built.

But why would he want to?

 

[bhsmte]

Probably for the same reason that, though women attempt suicide at a much higher rate than men, men actually commit suicide at a much higher rate. Men and women behave badly in different ways. When men act badly, they do things that send them to prison. When women act badly, they do things that ruin people's lives, but break no laws. It's why there are so many men in prison compared to women.

This is why all those movies with women as the tough protecer are comedy gold for me. It's fantasy. An average man who doesn't work out could crush a woman body builder. It's just the way we're built.

I Know plenty of athletic women, who would wipe with today's average joe couch potato.

 

[Aldebaran]

And yet, in your fixation on me, you chose to insert yourself into a side conversation I was having with another poster.

While it was flattering at first, it has since grown somewhat disturbing.

And now you're claiming to not even be talking to me.
Let me know what else you got.

 

[Aldebaran]

"The Donald" didn't waste any time dismissing the Texas church shooting as a "public health," and not a "gun" problem, from half a world away - Japan!

The Democrats have been calling guns a "public health" issue for a very long time.
Why Democrats are calling gun violence a 'public health crisis'

Gun violence in U.S. a 'public health crisis'

Gun Violence 'A Public Health Crisis,' American Medical Association Says

So why is it a problem for Donald Trump to say it, regardless of where he is at the time? Or would you have found it more acceptable if he avoided the issue until he got back home?

 

[LostMarbels]

If you took the FBI statistics on homicides for 2016 and counted only the NON-firearm homicides, we would still have a rate around that of England. No guns needed. We have more than a gun problem. We have a huge violent mentality problem.

The problem I usually have with comparing the US with other countries, is size. England's population is roughly 66 million. America's population is 325 million. England's population is roughly California, and Texas in population. However, they still fall 1.3 million in population short of just two states out of 50, and do not even represent the other 48 states with an additional 259 million citizens in America.

So with almost 5 times the population, by stating that we have a violent crime rate somewhere around that of England, we have a vastly lower crime rate. Simply because we have 259 million more people, but almost the same amount of crime of only 66 million; which represents less than the population of only 2 of our states.

Let's take this into account. Take Englands current statistical data such as 1 in 5 murder for example, and plug in 5 times more people. Now how high has crime exploded in England?

 

[Aldebaran]

Out politicians and pundits are trying to frame mass shootings not as a gun problem, but as a mental health problem.

Question: if this is the case, why is it then that women, who presumably are just as suceptible to mental illness as men, are only responsible for about 1% of mass shootings?

Because women and men are different in ways we are no longer politically correct to point out.

 

[Aldebaran]

Nailed it.

Guns just make it easier for certain people to kill and to kill more people in a short period of time. With that said i agree, the issue is a violence culture, which makes more people willing to use guns to kill more people.

I wish more people would understand this rather than focusing not only on guns, but certain makes and models of guns, or certain features a gun has, or what it looks like.

 

[Almost there]

And you don't think society has any role in that?

It's how we're designed. Society doesn't cause it. It responds to it.

 

[Almost there]

I Know plenty of athletic women, who would wipe with today's average joe couch potato.

Maybe running. Not in a fight. You can't build up BONE or make your arms longer in a weight room.

 

[bhsmte]

Maybe running. Not in a fight. You can't build up BONE or make your arms longer in a weight room.

Neither can men.

 

[Almost there]

Neither can men.

Exactly. They don't have to.

Don't get me wrong. You can find a scrawney guy that any girl can whip. You can also find a guy with bigger "b**bs than many women.

It's why I said "generally". Pit any ten random couch potatoes against any random female body builders, and must of the men will win the fight. This is one of those dirty little secrets that feminists hate.