JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[LoveGodsWord]

You cannot smother me with with 200 plus Scriptures. I read the whole Bible and believe it.
bugkiller

It is good to read the whole bible. It is also important to seek God's Spirit (John 14:26) so we can believe and understand God's Word when we read it. (John 3:16; Matthew 15:16)

 

[bugkiller]

It is good to read the whole bible. It is also important to seek God's Spirit (John 14:26) so we can believe and understand God's Word when we read it. (John 3:16; Matthew 15:16)

If you read the forums, you will find I am very fond of -

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Gal 5

This verse has lots of application aspects considering your post. I will leave you to ponder them.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I call you friend out of good will. I do not know about cults or their trademarks. I only follow and know God's Word and I share His Words for all to see. Whether a post is addressed to you or not I posted the link to you because it answered your questions. God's Word is for everyone and for all to see and we should believe it.

Nice try. Good will means being a little more cooperative and answering questions without calling people liars with Scripture.

If I thought you answered my questions I would not ask them.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Really? What did I say to insult you? I have only shared God's Word. If you have something against the Word of God it is between you and God not me and you. You are upset with me because I share God's Word with you and you do not believe what I share. If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not. He that rejects God's Words, has one that judges him: the Word of God, the same shall judge all in the last day.

More than I care to talk about. And no you are not just sharing God's Word.

Your last Scripture quote from Jn 12 is condemning anyone who dares disagree with you and is off topic. This is a personal malicious attack. SDA are famous for it. I have been here a while and been called many things with scripture. What you are doing with the verse is promoting fear in hopes of conversion. Sorry but I am well founded in Scripture and follow Jesus the Christ as the Holy Spirit leads me.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yes I like this verse as well. Many do not know what if means to be "Under the Law" however. We are lucky we have God's Word to guide us.

What does it mean to be under the Law...................?

To be "Under the Law" means a number of things (1) to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner or (2) trying to believe you have salvation by the works of the Law

(1)
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 2:12-13
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin UNDER THE LAW will be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin

(2)
To be "Under the works of the Law" means to try and earn your salvation through trying to keep God's Law.

Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galalations 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Yep God's Word is great. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God but if we have unrepentant sin in our lives (knowingly breaking any of God's Commandments) we stand guilty because God of committing sin and are guilty under the Law.

We must believe God's Word over the teachings and traditions of man (Romans 3:4; Matthew 15:3-9)

To be under the law means being subject to and controlled by it. If it can punish its transgression, one is controlled by it and under its supervision - violation or no violation.

I am now delivered from the law (Rom 7:6) and have passed the judgment (Jn 5:24). The law is for the wicked (I Tim 1:9-10) for the new man does not sin (I Jn 3:9). That is not talking about the body of flesh or the carnal Christian addressed in Rom 7 and 8. When I have a problem and enticed with sin my escape is I Jn 1:9. I did not justify nor permit a lifestyle of sin with the above. So do not come on with this worthless easy cheesy greasy grace stuff. I will come right back with your worthless law that is run from to grace.

bugkiller

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nice try. Good will means being a little more cooperative and answering questions without calling people liars with Scripture. If I thought you answered my questions I would not ask them.
bugkiller

As mentioned earlier the scriptures I quote are for all, myself included. The scriptures are God's not mine and are for all people. It is God's Word that will judge us all in the last days. We should not be offended by the Word of God. He writes to us because he loves us and does not wish that any should perish but that all should repent and be saved.

If you believe I have not answered you on something please state your question and scripture and let's discuss them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

More than I care to talk about. And no you are not just sharing God's Word. Your last Scripture quote from Jn 12 is condemning anyone who dares disagree with you and is off topic. This is a personal malicious attack. SDA are famous for it. I have been here a while and been called many things with scripture. What you are doing with the verse is promoting fear in hopes of conversion. Sorry but I am well founded in Scripture and follow Jesus the Christ as the Holy Spirit leads me.
bugkiller

Well none of that is true at all and is just repeating the same as your earlier post. I do not condemn you nor do I judge you. It is the Word of God that Jesus says will judge all in the last days. If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Please tell me how these scriptures are offending you...... None of the above was directed at you personally as they are general scriptures that all must believe and follow including myself.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

To be under the law means being subject to and controlled by it. If it can punish its transgression, one is controlled by it and under its supervision - violation or no violation. I am now delivered from the law (Rom 7:6) and have passed the judgment (Jn 5:24). The law is for the wicked (I Tim 1:9-10) for the new man does not sin (I Jn 3:9). That is not talking about the body of flesh or the carnal Christian addressed in Rom 7 and 8. When I have a problem and enticed with sin my escape is I Jn 1:9. I did not justify nor permit a lifestyle of sin with the above. So do not come on with this worthless easy cheesy greasy grace stuff. I will come right back with your worthless law that is run from to grace.
bugkiller

To be "Under the Law" means a number of things (1) to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner or (2) trying to believe you have salvation by the works of the Law

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 2:12-13
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin UNDER THE LAW will be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin

To be "Under the works of the Law" means to try and earn your salvation through trying to keep God's Law.

Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galalations 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God but if we have unrepentant sin in our lives (knowingly breaking any of God's Commandments) we stand guilty because God of committing sin and are guilty under the Law.

God's Law only condemns us if we are guilty of knowingly breaking it as posted above (Romans 3:19; Romans 2:12-13; Romans 3:9). If we are knowingly breaking any of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of committing sin (Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4). This is why we must not follow the teachings and traditions of man that break God's Law.

If we are breaking God's commandments and have sin in our lives we are not walking in the Spirit of God or do we have the Holy Spirit or know him who loves us. (Acts 5:32; 1 John 2:4; 1 John 3:6-8)

We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings of man that break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:3-9; Romans 3:4)

 

[stuart lawrence]

God's Law only condemns us if we are guilty of knowingly breaking it as posted above (Romans 3:19; Romans 2:12-13; Romans 3:9). If we are knowingly breaking any of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of committing sin (Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4). This is why we must not follow the teachings and traditions of man that break God's Law. If we are breaking God's commandments and have sin in our lives we are not walking in the Spirit of God or do we have the Holy Spirit or know him who loves us. (Acts 5:32; 1 John 2:4; 1 John 3:6-8)

...

The only way you can unknowingly sin is if you are ignorant of some of Gods laws.
Do you claim to be ignorant of any of Gods laws?
I'm sure you must answer no to that. Therefore if you commit sin you must commit knowing sin.
So the next question is:
Do you ever commit any sin?
You are not going to answer that are you!!
For according to your statements, any sin you commit must be known sin unless you claim not to know of some of Gods laws!!

Why do you refuse to say if you ever commit any sin? Only one answer to that isn't there.

So you yourself commit knowing sin. Therefore, according to what you wrote you are guilty before God of committing sin, you are not walking in the Spirit of God, nor do you have the Holy Spirit.

You may be SDA but you are no different from the majority of people in the church I was raised in. You make pat statements by reeling off the letter of selected scripture which has no bearing on the reality of your own life. At best it is very weak religion, at worst, outright hypocrisy.

The internet is full of people who reel off pat statements from selected scripture that has no bearing on the reality of their lives. You are in the majority my friend, not the minority

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Stuart how are you my friend?

The only way you can unknowingly sin is if you are ignorant of some of Gods laws.

This is true (Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17). However it is not repentant sin that is the problem it is unrepentant sin that will keep you out of God's Kingdom (1 John 2:1; Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8).

Do you claim to be ignorant of any of Gods laws? I'm sure you must answer no to that. Therefore if you commit sin you must commit knowing sin.

Well this is a good question. My answer would be yes and no. I say this because yes I know God's Law (10 commandments) but everyday I am growing in grace so I do not perfectly know the depth of God's Law. This is called growing in grace (1 Peter 2:1-21; Ephesians 4:15; 2 Peter 1:2-12; 2 Peter 3:18; 1 Corinthians 13:9-13)

So the next question is:
Do you ever commit any sin? You are not going to answer that are you!!

Without Jesus all I can do is sin because I am a sinner. I am blind, deaf, lame, poor and naked. Sick in sin and in need of a physician. He is my Physician because I am sick in sin and cannot heal myself. He changes my filthy rags for his white robe of righteousness which he swapped for my filthy rags and by his stripes I am healed. Now I walk in him by faith and not by sight because I am blind. He is in me and His Spirit guides my steps. I am growing in grace and not yet perfect but I am perfect in him as I believe and follow his Word. Now he strengthens me to do all things. I was a servant to sin now he sets me free to love him because he first loved me.

You may be SDA but you are no different from the majority of people in the church I was raised in. You make pat statements by reeling off the letter of selected scripture which has no bearing on the reality of your own life. At best it is very weak religion, at worst, outright hypocrisy. The internet is full of people who reel off pat statements from selected scripture that has no bearing on the reality of their lives. You are in the majority my friend, not the minority

Only God is my judge and I look to him who loves me and by faith follow him who loves all. We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (see Matthew 15:3-9)

Nice to see you again Stuart, I can't chat now maybe latter......

 

[listed]

What question was that?

Use the back button like everyone else.

 

[listed]

Well that did not answer anything.

Wonder why? Is it because you won't go to page 6 of your thread you keep sending me back to?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hello Stuart how are you my friend?

This is true (Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17). However it is not repentant sin that is the problem it is unrepentant sin that will keep you out of God's Kingdom (1 John 2:1; Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8).

Well this is a good question. My answer would be yes and no. I say this because yes I know God's Law (10 commandments) but everyday I am growing in grace so I do not perfectly know the depth of God's Law. This is called growing in grace (1 Peter 2:1-21; Ephesians 4:15; 2 Peter 1:2-12; 2 Peter 3:18; 1 Corinthians 13:9-13)

Without Jesus all I can do is sin because I am a sinner. I am blind, deaf, lame, poor and naked. Sick in sin and in need of a physician. He is my Physician because I am sick in sin and cannot heal myself. He changes my filthy rags for his white robe of righteousness which he swapped for my filthy rags and by his stripes I am healed. Now I walk in him by faith and not by sight because I am blind. He is in me and His Spirit guides my steps. I am growing in grace and not yet perfect but I am perfect in him as I believe and follow his Word. Now he strengthens me to do all things. I was a servant to sin now he sets me free to love him because he first loved me.

Only God is my judge and I look to him who loves me and by faith follow him who loves all. We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (see Matthew 15:3-9)

Nice to see you again Stuart, I can't chat now maybe latter......

By stating you are not perfect, you must be aware you break Gods laws/commit sin. if you were sinning in ignorance you would not know you weren't perfect would you. For anyone who never commits sin is perfect are they not, for they must perfectly obey the entire law of God. Therefore, you must commit knowing sin, and, according to what you wrote, knowing sin brings condemnation under the law. it also means we do not have the Holy Spirit nor are you therefore walking after the Spirit. So you are making very conflicting statements once we dig into them I'm afraid.
But lets consider your idea of committing unknown sin. We can commit sin/break Gods laws without being convicted we are doing so.
Who is the convictor of sin in the believers life? It is the Holy Spirit as I hope you would agree(eg John 16:8-11) Therefore, anyone who claims to commit sin without conviction they are sinning would, it stands to reason be living a life where the Holy Spirit does not have the dominance in their life he should have, to put it mildly. Your thoughts on this do bear out my experience in an SDA church I went to for a couple of months to please a friend. In the church. many relentlessly stated: you must obey the TC.
Yet, in that church many people were casually taking the Lords name in vain, some even laughing as they did so, apparently unaware they were committing sin. They must have believed, as you appear to believe, you can commit unknowing sin. As I previously told you, in no other church I have ever been to have I heard anyone casually taking the Lords name in vain as I often heard in that SDA church. So from practical experience with them, and from what you write, it seems the average sda member is far less convicted of sin in their lives than in any other church I have personally belonged to. For every single christian I know would instinctively know they should not take the Lords name in vain, and would be aware they sinned by doing so.
Of course, this reflects the core of the covenant the Christian is under. the law God requires them to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. And what is in your mind, you in your mind must know, obviously. So how come SDA seem to accept they can sin unknowingly?
I'm just being honest here, nothing more. It was when I saw the casual taking of the Lords name in vain in that SDA church, I realised something was radically wrong.

 

[listed]

Hello Friend, I am not calling you anything. The scripture quoted is general and for everyone including myself as the meaning is only God's Word is true and we should believe God over the traditions and teachings of men. The scripture is from Romans 3:4.

What exactly does your verse have to do with the topic of discussion? Nothing! So why are you using it?

Actually my posts do here you go. Post # 555 (linked) referring to who God's Word describes as being His people.

Which ones?

Here you go. The most recent was post # 461, and post # 485 which are all only new testament scriptures. Then we have the main scriptures where everything comes from in post # 495 and post 499. Not to mention the main scriptures of our duty of love to God and man (Exodus 20:1-17). So many scriptures my friend. The old covenant is indeed on tables of stone but the new and better covenant is on the fleshly tables of the heart through love and why we need to be born again to love God as he first loved us (Hebrews 8:10-12; 2 Corinthians 3:3).

And that newer covenant isn't like the previous covenant. Jeremiah says no and you say yes. You say repeatedly take God's Word over man.

 

[listed]

Why are you addressing me as Friend and Good Friend? That is a trade mark of the cults.

Also your opinion has been noted for what it is worth.

I responded to your post 544 which is not addressed to me.

I have posted about the contents of post 568.

I do not remember if I posted about 461 or not. You can rest assured I read it and several responses to it. I cannot respond to every post due to time constraints. I feel you have had adequate response with or without one from me if I did not.

Post 495 was not addressed to me and just another long post repeating things already said I think in post 544. So I may not have read all of it.

Thus anything to address or read must be posted again.

Now let me tell you I am not chasing down you stuff ever again.

bugkiller

It's a smooth move designed to disarm a person from attack and get them in an emotional irrational state. Part of them manipulation game. Sales people also do this.

Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the behavior or perception of others through abusive, deceptive, or underhanded tactics. By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at another's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative, abusive, devious, and deceptive.

 

[stuart lawrence]

BTW
Not being under the law, refers to not being under a righteousness of observing the law

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What exactly does your verse have to do with the topic of discussion? Nothing! So why are you using it?

Actually everything that was the verse you were offended over, but the scripture applies to all mankind, myself included. We should not be offended by God's Word but believe it.

And that newer covenant isn't like the previous covenant. Jeremiah says no and you say yes.

Nope I do not

You say repeatedly take God's Word over man.

Yes because I believe we should believe and follow God's Word over the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God because Jesus says if we follow the teachings of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Use the back button like everyone else.

If I do not know what question you are talking about how is using the back button going to help? To my knowledge I have answered all your questions. If you believe I have not or missed something then re-post it and let's discuss it

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wonder why? Is it because you won't go to page 6 of your thread you keep sending me back to?

Nope it is because I went there and found no posts from you there so I do not know what you are referring to.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

By stating you are not perfect, you must be aware you break Gods laws/commit sin. God's Word says that by GRACE are we saved through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of God lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8). if you were sinning in ignorance you would not know you weren't perfect would you. For anyone who never commits sin is perfect are they not, for they must perfectly obey the entire law of God. Therefore, you must commit knowing sin, and, according to what you wrote, knowing sin brings condemnation under the law. it also means we do not have the Holy Spirit nor are you therefore walking after the Spirit. So you are making very conflicting statements once we dig into them I'm afraid. But lets consider your idea of committing unknown sin. We can commit sin/break Gods laws without being convicted we are doing so. Who is the convictor of sin in the believers life? It is the Holy Spirit as I hope you would agree(eg John 16:8-11) Therefore, anyone who claims to commit sin without conviction they are sinning would, it stands to reason be living a life where the Holy Spirit does not have the dominance in their life he should have, to put it mildly. Your thoughts on this do bear out my experience in an SDA church I went to for a couple of months to please a friend. In the church. many relentlessly stated: you must obey the TC. Yet, in that church many people were casually taking the Lords name in vain, some even laughing as they did so, apparently unaware they were committing sin. They must have believed, as you appear to believe, you can commit unknowing sin. As I previously told you, in no other church I have ever been to have I heard anyone casually taking the Lords name in vain as I often heard in that SDA church. So from practical experience with them, and from what you write, it seems the average sda member is far less convicted of sin in their lives than in any other church I have personally belonged to. For every single christian I know would instinctively know they should not take the Lords name in vain, and would be aware they sinned by doing so. Of course, this reflects the core of the covenant the Christian is under. the law God requires them to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. And what is in your mind, you in your mind must know, obviously. So how come SDA seem to accept they can sin unknowingly? I'm just being honest here, nothing more. It was when I saw the casual taking of the Lords name in vain in that SDA church, I realised something was radically wrong.

Jesus says; Now you are CLEAN THROUGH THE WORD which I have spoken unto you. ABIDE IN ME <the Word>, and I IN YOU. As the branch cannot BEAR FRUIT of itself, except it abide in the vine; NO MORE CAN YOU, except you ABIDE IN ME. I am the vine, ye are the branches: HE THAT ABIDES IN ME AND I IN HIM, the same brings forth much FRUIT: for WITHOUT ME <the Word> YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If a man ABIDE NOT IN ME <the Word>, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye ABIDE IN ME <the Word>, and MY WORDS ABIDE IN YOU, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, THAT YOU BARE MUCH FRUIT; SO SHALL YOU BE MY DISCIPLES. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YOU SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love (John 15:3-10).

This is the same as ............

WALK IN THE SPIRIT and you shall NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH (Galatians 5:16: 25; Romans 8:1-4; 14)

The keys .........

It is the SPIRIT that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (John 6:63)

You must be born again to know God's power to be free from sin and bare fruit.........

Whosoever ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: < this is the same as John 15:3-10 above> WHOSOEVER SINS <the fruit> hath not seen him, neither known him <not abiding in him>.
Little children, LET KNOW MAN DECEIVE YOU: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS. HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; <why?> FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM: <What does the seed represent?; Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God - Luke 8:11> and HE CANNOT SIN BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD <through faith in God's word>. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother (1 John 3:6-10)

We are born again by faith in God's Word. Faith is the victory......

BEING BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible SEED, but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and ABIDES FOREVER (1 Peter 1:23).

Faith is the victory...........

For whatsoever is BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD: and THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD, EVEN OUR FAITH (1 John 5:4).

Let's put it all together.................

It is only through faith by believing and following the word of God that we have victory over sin and know the power of God unto salvation. God's Word is God's power (Jude 1:24; Romans 1:16; 2 Corinthians 6:7; 1 Peter 1:5)
The power of God is according to the Spirit of holiness (Romans 1:4). If we do not know God's Word we do not know his power (Matthew 22:29) If we are sinning we do not know him (1 John 3:6). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12). Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. If we have unrepentant known sin in our lives we do not know God and are not following him...