JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[listed]

Not sure what your point is or what your trying to say...

In-other-words you can't argue what was said. The rest the sabbath is a shadow, figure or symbol of is God's rest they could not enter into is the rest Jesus invites all to. This is done by belief (faith) only.

 

[listed]

Nope, already addressed and is the reason for the link here COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH

Yeah I read it. It has been refuted. At least you're not c&p the whole post. Many thanks here.

 

[listed]

Hello Open Heart,

I have not talked to you much. So nice to meet you here. I am happy to give you a detailed response to your post if you would like but there are a number of things in my view that make your post fall down a bit scripture wise.... Please forgive me if I respectfully disagree with you and I respect your right to your opinion and belief.

Firstly did you know what the Torah is?...............

Torah also called "Pentateuch from the Greek" is the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). These are also called the book of Moses as they were written by Moses.

1. Do you believe that the TORAH (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) or first 5 books of the bible are not for Christians?

Who is Israel today according to the scripture?................

Who is Israel according to God's Word?

Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. This is God's people and today anyone the is following Jesus is part of God's spiritual Israel according to God's Word. The same New Covenant is written for God's people who are now spiritual Israel following. Scripture support;

Hosea 2:23 won't support this statement.

None of your other statements or verses will either.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Gosh, this thread is still going. People preaching law based righteousness and others saying the law got abolished. Oh well, never mind. Best move on

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Not sure what your point is or what your trying to say...
listed replied: In-other-words you can't argue what was said. The rest the sabbath is a shadow, figure or symbol of is God's rest they could not enter into is the rest Jesus invites all to. This is done by belief (faith) only.

Nope as I said not sure what your point was as it did not relate to anything as the 4th commandment of God's Law 7th Day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) is not a Shadow of anything because it is part of a finished work given before the fall of mankind in the creation week (Genesis 2:1-3).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I offered more Scripture than you did. You know some of your questions have no Scriptural answer. You posed leading questions to support your theology. Since the law covenant was given for a limited people and time you have no valid argument. Galatians 3:19 has been provided to you without avail. So you can continue to ignore Scritpure.

Hi listed as mentioned earlier you did not offer any scripture that answers the questions asked. It is ok though I did not expect you to. I only present God's Word and it is God's Word I must follow because I love him who calls me

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said:
Nope, already addressed and is the reason for the link here COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH
listed said: Yeah I read it. It has been refuted. At least you're not c&p the whole post. Many thanks here.

No you didn't. Please show me if you believe you did. Maybe I did not see it?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The real truth LGW is the list of Israel's holy days in Leviticus starts with the weekly sabbath. The list in Colossians is reversed.
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Hi Listed,

How are you today my friend? Well that is not true so I guess you should have not listened to your friend. Leviticus 23 is talking about the 7x annual Jewish festivals. Some of these festivals can run for 7 days or longer so of course these festivals would include the normal 4th commandment which is a weekly Sabbath from the 4th commandment of God's Law (Exodus 20:8-11). This is because the 4th commandment would have fallen within the time frame of the different festivals. So I am not sure of your the point your trying to make.

Continuing…………….

When a Holy convocation fell on a weekly Sabbath it was considered a High Day (e.g. John 19:31). The 4th commandments or 7th Day Sabbath is not an “annual” festival Sabbath which are referred to as “special Sabbaths” of “Holy convocation” (e.g. Leviticus 23:24; Sabbath H7677) which can fall on any day of the week.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton simply means to cease from secular work; rest and can be applied to “Holy convocation”.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals as well as the Holy convocations (Sabbaton to cease from work and rest) could fall on any day of the week depending on the year the festival was starting. The Holy convocations were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days (not to be confused with God’s commandment) and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

A High Sabbath day however was when I Holy convocation annual feast day falls on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

This does not include the other special Sabbaths of Leviticus 23:24: 32; 38-39. These were also special Sabbaths (not weekly) that could fall on any day of the week; in the Day of Atonement, the Feast of Tabernacles (booths) and First Fruits. The same Hebrew words used for these days in the texts above are;

Leviticus 23:24
sabbath H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

This was a special sabbath which could be on any day of the week...

Leviticus 23:32
sabbath H7676
שׁבּת; shabbâth; shab-bawth' Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

The same word used as the weekly sabbath of the 4th commandment although this was not a weekly sabbath and could fall on any day of the week depending on which year it is observed.

For more detailed study withe over 200+ supporting scripture please see and COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH linked.

The abuse of Mark 2:27 and 28 stinks to high heaven. There is nothing in Genesis or Exodus indicating all mankind. So the context of Mark 2:27, 28 is spoken only to those to whom the sabbath was given - Jews. Jesus was having a conversation with Jews having no indication about addressing the world. You can say gentiles were present if you like. The conversation was with Jews.

There is no abuse of Mark 2:27-28. When using this scripture I have only stated that the Sabbath was made for mankind and Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and it is the Lord’s Day and this does not refer to Sunday. Here let’s see what it says? I have highlighted the key sections for you as I am only repeating God’s Word.

Mark 2:27-28
27, And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: 28, Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Since you bring up Sunday is only a tradition of men, let me say the sabbath you keep is merely a tradition of a woman. You aren't in compliance with Exodus 20:8-11. Since you promote obligation to the law, this is repeated willful unrepentant sin. Quite frankly I'm tired of your insults.

The 7th Day Sabbath is the 4th commandment of God’s Law (Exodus 20:8-11) and only God is the maker of it. Why do you feel insulted by scripture? They are God’s Words not mine. It is Jesus that says we must believe and follow the Word of God over the traditions and teaching of man that break the commandments of God not me (see Matthew 15:3-9).

 

[bugkiller]

Nope as I said not sure what your point was as it did not relate to anything as the 4th commandment of God's Law 7th Day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) is not a Shadow of anything because it is part of a finished work given before the fall of mankind in the creation week (Genesis 2:1-3).

Just not true no matter how many times you post it.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hi listed as mentioned earlier you did not offer any scripture that answers the questions asked. It is ok though I did not expect you to. I only present God's Word and it is God's Word I must follow because I love him who calls me

Only because you must not be reading his posts or deny the NT is Scripture.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hi Listed,

How are you today my friend? Well that is not true so I guess you should have not listened to your friend. Leviticus 23 is talking about the 7x annual Jewish festivals. Some of these festivals can run for 7 days or longer so of course these festivals would include the normal 4th commandment which is a weekly Sabbath from the 4th commandment of God's Law (Exodus 20:8-11). This is because the 4th commandment would have fallen within the time frame of the different festivals. So I am not sure of your the point your trying to make.

Continuing…………….

When a Holy convocation fell on a weekly Sabbath it was considered a High Day (e.g. John 19:31). The 4th commandments or 7th Day Sabbath is not an “annual” festival Sabbath which are referred to as “special Sabbaths” of “Holy convocation” (e.g. Leviticus 23:24; Sabbath H7677) which can fall on any day of the week.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton simply means to cease from secular work; rest and can be applied to “Holy convocation”.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals as well as the Holy convocations (Sabbaton to cease from work and rest) could fall on any day of the week depending on the year the festival was starting. The Holy convocations were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days (not to be confused with God’s commandment) and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

A High Sabbath day however was when I Holy convocation annual feast day falls on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

This does not include the other special Sabbaths of Leviticus 23:24: 32; 38-39. These were also special Sabbaths (not weekly) that could fall on any day of the week; in the Day of Atonement, the Feast of Tabernacles (booths) and First Fruits. The same Hebrew words used for these days in the texts above are;

Leviticus 23:24
sabbath H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

This was a special sabbath which could be on any day of the week...

Leviticus 23:32
sabbath H7676
שׁבּת; shabbâth; shab-bawth' Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

The same word used as the weekly sabbath of the 4th commandment although this was not a weekly sabbath and could fall on any day of the week depending on which year it is observed.


There is no abuse of Mark 2:27-28. When using this scripture I have only stated that the Sabbath was made for mankind and Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and it is the Lord’s Day and this does not refer to Sunday. Here let’s see what it says? I have highlighted the key sections for you as I am only repeating God’s Word.

Mark 2:27-28
27, And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: 28, Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.



The 7th Day Sabbath is the 4th commandment of God’s Law (Exodus 20:8-11) and only God is the maker of it. Why do you feel insulted by scripture? They are God’s Words not mine. It is Jesus that says we must believe and follow the Word of God over the traditions and teaching of man that break the commandments of God not me (see Matthew 15:3-9).

Do you mean to tell us you do not recognize the first 3 verses of Lev 23? I do not understand how they cannot be about the weekly sabbath. Listed quoted them.

bugkiller

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you mean to tell us you do not recognize the first 3 verses of Lev 23? I do not understand how they cannot be about the weekly sabbath. Listed quoted them.
bugkiller

I believe God's Word just not your interpretation of it. We must follow God rather then man (Acts 5:29)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Only because you must not be reading his posts or deny the NT is Scripture.
bugkiller

Please pick your scripture and state your case. So far you haven't been able to. It is written; Only God's is true but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged (Romans 3:4).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Just not true no matter how many times you post it.bugkiller

I believe God's Word just not your interpretation of it. See post # 560 and COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH for the 200+ supporting scriptures that do not agree with you. We must follow God rather then man (Acts 5:29)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sorry accidental post

 

[listed]

Hi Listed the questions I asked were to to be answered through scripture that addresses the questions. You did not provide any scripture that answered the questions.

So what you're doing is trying to establish your view as correct for the Christian. This is done because you know there are no Scripture verses with your desired words. The problems of legalism.

Jesus invites us to trust Him and get our rest from Him not provided for by keeping the physical shadow 7th day sabbath. Since you pretend to not know what I'm talking about, its found in Matthew 11:28-30.

From your posts, I do not believe you're here to discuss anything. I say enough to pique (stimulate) interest and promote discussion. Others do the same.

 

[listed]

Hi Listed the questions I asked were to to be answered through scripture that addresses the questions. You did not provide any scripture that answered the questions.

I referenced the following Scripture in my response:

1 Corinthians 16

Hebrews 10:25

Exodus 20

Hosea 2:11

Jeremiah 31:31-33

Luke 22:20

Rev 1:10

Is there something wrong with your screen? Maybe you didn't read my post. Nothing unusual. The record proves I referenced the above in my response to your post.

 

[listed]

Nope, already addressed and is the reason for the link here COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH

Nothing in your response responds to any statement made by me. Instead you try to set yourself up as an authority. Your thread and posts have been responded to there.

 

[listed]

Hello Open Heart,

I have not talked to you much. So nice to meet you here. I am happy to give you a detailed response to your post if you would like but there are a number of things in my view that make your post fall down a bit scripture wise.... Please forgive me if I respectfully disagree with you and I respect your right to your opinion and belief.

Firstly did you know what the Torah is?...............

Torah also called "Pentateuch from the Greek" is the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). These are also called the book of Moses as they were written by Moses.

1. Do you believe that the TORAH (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) or first 5 books of the bible are not for Christians?

Who are those books addressed to? Contents of the last 4 of your list specifically say children of Israel.

Who is Israel today according to the scripture?................

Suppose you have a desired answer for your posed rhetorical question.

Who is Israel according to God's Word?

Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. This is God's people and today anyone the is following Jesus is part of God's spiritual Israel according to God's Word. The same New Covenant is written for God's people who are now spiritual Israel following. Scripture support;

Anything is merely a word. Your argument falls flat trying to say Israel is only a word (name).

For it is written…

Let God be true and every man a liar that thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

This quote has nothing to do with the discussion.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He says not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ

Abraham’s seed is Israel, now who is Israel?

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus and if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

But we aren't one in Israel. the verse does not say anything about Israel. We are 1 in Jesus as the verse says.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Christians aren't Israel in either case. Christians aren't called in Isaac. Christians are called by the One they follow, the Seed of Abraham. Christians don't follow Israel (the law). The law covenant isn't the covenant of Christians.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This doesn't say anything about becoming a Jew. This is addressed to the Jew who refuses to accept Jesus as the Messiah. They can't become complete without accepting Him Jesus the Christ well known also as The Messiah.

Gal 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Nothing about Israel here. We are 1 in Christ Jesus as the verse says.

Col 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

What is all? What are we in? I read Christ meaning Jesus. I don't read Israel.

Rom 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Once again, nothing about Israel. believeth on him, all that call upon him, call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This doesn't say anything about becoming a Jew. This is addressed to the Jew who refuses to accept Jesus as the Messiah. They can't become complete without accepting Him Jesus the Christ well known also as The Messiah.

Jer 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

What are you trying to imply with this partial quote? Aren't you trying to mislead Christians taking from 1 sentence and combining it with another?

Heb 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Why aren't you including verses 8 and 9? Why are you insisting the subject is changed? Here are the verses:

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The covenant in verse 10 can't be the covenant given to Israel at Sinai. That covenant is:

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Heb 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

By what are we sanctified? Isn't it the 1 offering in your quote? Your quote says nothing about the law.

Gal 3:29,
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

The New Covenant is for God's Israel which represent God’s followers the believers. If you are not part of God's Israel you are not part of the New Covenant (Heb 8:10-12).

I read the Gospels and Acts which won't permit your position to be true.

God's Israel are those that believe the Word of God and follow it and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)
[/quote]The verse says nothing about the ten commandments. Jesus says my commandments. John 1:17 disallows the implied.

Just let me know if you would like me to go though the rest of your post. I stopped here because most of your post came apart after this as you are referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses such as circumcision which were fulfilled at the cross...

Please do go through the rest of her post.

 

[listed]

No you didn't. Please show me if you believe you did. Maybe I did not see it?

You're not reading what is said.