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Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

JESUS=G.O.A.T

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What is your definition of lust then. Let's start there.
I would say it’s basically an intense sexual desire for someone of the opposite sex that you’re not married to or with in any form or fashion (the Biblical and just general definitions in dictionary’s or what not defines it as basicully intense sex desire as well when it’s applied to desires of the opposite sex at least) Sex in marriage/ mental sexual tendicies would just be Eros love which is why I added that extra part at the end for clarification purposes but yeah that’s my definition.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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What is your definition of lust then. Let's start there.
Now lust in regards to the lust of the world for example is different then the lust we are talking about and thus would have a different definition. It’s kind of like the term fear in the Bible depending on how it’s utilized it carries a diffent meaning, or the term heaven
 
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ToBeLoved

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I would say it’s basically an intense sexual desire for someone of the opposite sex that you’re not married to or with in any form or fashion (the Biblical and just general definitions in dictionary’s or what not defines it as basicully intense sex desire as well when it’s applied to desires of the opposite sex at least) Sex in marriage/ mental sexual tendicies would just be Eros love which is why I added that extra part at the end for clarification purposes but yeah that’s my definition.
Strong's says "to long for".

So then is Strong's wrong and the Greek word doesn't mean that?
 
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ToBeLoved

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Now lust in regards to the lust of the world for example is different then the lust we are talking about and thus would have a different definition. It’s kind of like the term fear in the Bible depending on how it’s utilized it carries a diffent meaning, or the term heaven
But don't we have a specfic word here in the Greek? So then we have the meaning of that Greek word?

Not the word translated to English, but the word in the original language that the Apostle Paul wrote it.
 
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Ken Rank

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So, I want to clarify before I respond.

Even though we are told to represent ourselves in truth and light, it is not a sin to not represent myself in truth?

That is your stance? That we can misrepresent situations yet our very lives are a testimony of who we are in Christ?
Get snippy... all I said was there is no commandment that says not to lie. Show me one and you have a point, but seeing sin is breaking commandments, if one doesn't exist, then sin doesn't exist. You were in a bind... boss says be here but family comes before boss doesn't it?

Personally... I would have just told him the truth and accepted the consequences.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Get snippy... all I said was there is no commandment that says not to lie. Show me one and you have a point, but seeing sin is breaking commandments, if one doesn't exist, then sin doesn't exist. You were in a bind... boss says be here but family comes before boss doesn't it?

Personally... I would have just told him the truth and accepted the consequences.
It's a hypothetical. Because you said willful sin. So my point is that all three of those things are within our 'will' to choose. We could decide. How are we going to respond, with truth or not with truth.

It's not about me personally. it's about the decision itself and if we have time to determine our will in the situation and we do it anyways, than is that willful, was my point.

So it was the 'willful' piece that was my focus on that.

Sorry about the 'snippy'. I am snippy about this thread because all the time I hear people say that they do not sin. That's the part that makes me snippy, not our conversation.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Strong's says "to long for".

So then is Strong's wrong and the Greek word doesn't mean that?
I long for Jesus does that mean I’m lusting for him? Clearly to long for must mean something more so definitions based off the Greek conclude that lust means an deep desire for in general terms. Lust of the flesh etc however in regards to Just flesh or other humans the definition is this “an intense sexual desire”
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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But don't we have a specfic word here in the Greek? So then we have the meaning of that Greek word?

Not the word translated to English, but the word in the original language that the Apostle Paul wrote it.
What are you saying here ?
 
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SBC

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So, you say all this to basically say:

Guy #1 is not saved. CORRECT.
Guy #2 is saved. CORRECT.

Guy #1 does some action that is considered sin. CORRECT.
Guy #2 does the same action. BUT IS IN BELIEF AND IS FORGIVEN.
Guy # 1 & 2 BOTH have the option to BELIEVE and BE forgiven.
Guy #1 DID NOT CHOOSE to Believe, thus was NOT Forgiven.
Guy # 2 CHOSE to Believe and was Forgiven.


Guy #1 is sinning because he is not "Born of God. CORRECT.
MANS SIN AGAINST GOD IS DISBELIEF.
What A MAN IN DISBELIEF DOES IS SIN.

Guy #2 is not sinning because he is "Born of God".. CORRECT.
EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN.

NOW IT IS ABOUT WORKS
Now, everything a man (in belief, forgiveness, born of God) does, is about works, NOT SIN.
Now, everything a man DOES, to Glorify God, uh - Glorifies God.
Now, everything a man DOES, that does not Glorify God, uh - Does not Glorify God.

What you are calling SIN, is simply YOUR LACK of doing a "work" that Glorifies God.
And all that you do, that is "good work", IS your doing a "work" that does Glorify God.

IF you are born of God, and do NOT WORK to Glorify God, "that work" is dead to God.

Jas 2
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

When you LACK doing a "work", that DOES NOT Glorify God, "that" work, is NOT a work, so done BY YOUR FAITH. It is a "work" done by your carnal minds thoughts.

Remember, YOU STILL have an active carnal mind.
Your FAITH given you, is by God, not your mind.
Your FAITH given you, is by God, TO your heart.
You acting on your carnal minds thoughts, is you NOT acting according to FAITH.
That is YOU, choosing to act on Forgiven sin, and Not the faith, God keeps FEEDING your Heart, with His TRUTH.

When you ARE acting according to YOUR MIND, what you do IS is act, without works, without faith, and why faith WITHOUT works according to the Spirit is DEAD WORKS.

Have I got this right?

Sort of.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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ToBeLoved

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I long for Jesus does that mean I’m lusting for him? Clearly to long for must mean something more so definitions based off the Greek conclude that lust means an deep desire for in general terms. Lust of the flesh etc however in regards to Just flesh or other humans the definition is this “an intense sexual desire”
Are you attracted to Jesus? No, because no one knows what He looks like, nor would any of us have that for someone who didn't have physical qualities.

Is Jesus really a good example? Did you look it up in Strong's?
 
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ToBeLoved

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What are you saying here ?
When I looked at Matthew 5:28, I looked up the Greek word for 'lust' in that verse.

The word is

ἐπιθυμῆσαι (epithymēsai) and looking at the definition in Strong's, the root word is


epithumeó: desire, lust after
Original Word: ἐπιθυμέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epithumeó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o)
Short Definition: I long for, covet, lust after
Definition: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon.


HELPS Word-studies
1937 epithyméō (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" intensifying 2372 /thymós, "passionate desire") – properly, to show focused passion as it aptly builds on (Gk epi, "upon") what a person truly yearns for; to "greatly desire to do or have something – 'to long for, to desire very much' " (L & N, 1, 25.12).
 
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JacksBratt

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Guy #1 is sinning because he is not "Born of God. CORRECT.
MANS SIN AGAINST GOD IS DISBELIEF.
What A MAN IN DISBELIEF DOES IS SIN.

Guy #2 is not sinning because he is "Born of God".. CORRECT.
EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN.
Ok, so, now that I see your view a little bit better, I am in further disagreement.

Here is why:

Your explanation in blue...

Guy #1 is sinning because he is not "Born of God. CORRECT.
MANS SIN AGAINST GOD IS DISBELIEF.
What A MAN IN DISBELIEF DOES IS SIN.
Guy #2 is not sinning because he is "Born of God".. CORRECT.
EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN.


I most certainly do not believe that being saved gives me a license to sin.
I most certainly believe that an action that is sinful is always sinful. The condition of the heart of the offender is not the contributing factor as to whether an action is sinful or not.

If Guy #1 is sinning by doing a certain action, then, Guy #2 is also sinning by doing the same act.

It's ludicrous to believe that everything I do as a Christian is not sinful....due to the fact that I am a believer.

There is no question in my mind about that... if an act is a sin....its a sin.

My outlook on your theology is this.....
NOT EVERYTHING A MAN IN BELIEF DOES IS NOT SIN.
But rather.. Everything a man does in belief, though it is a sin, is forgiven, should be confessed as a sin, will not cause loss of salvation. The act is still sin. The man in belief is still a sinner BUT the man in belief is a Child of God and will still have eternal life.

What we will deal with for sins left unrepentant upon our death... I'm not sure.
However... we are to be judged. It is not a judgement of salvation or damnation... it's a judgement by fire...

All of our actions, during our time on earth as a "man in belief" will be tried by fire. All that will remain is what is righteous.

If nothing righteous is remaining.... the person will still have their salvation.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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When I looked at Matthew 5:28, I looked up the Greek word for 'lust' in that verse.

The word is

ἐπιθυμῆσαι (epithymēsai) and looking at the definition in Strong's, the root word is


epithumeó: desire, lust after
Original Word: ἐπιθυμέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epithumeó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o)
Short Definition: I long for, covet, lust after
Definition: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon.


HELPS Word-studies
1937 epithyméō (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" intensifying 2372 /thymós, "passionate desire") – properly, to show focused passion as it aptly builds on (Gk epi, "upon") what a person truly yearns for; to "greatly desire to do or have something – 'to long for, to desire very much' " (L & N, 1, 25.12).
we agree that lust means to have a strong desire for something like I explained already when the Bible says lust of the flesh or eyes it just means overly strong desire for something of the world. But what you fail to do here is acknowledge context and define the definition of adultery so you understand why lust in verses such as this one is defined as an intense sexual desire. Adultery is translated as sexual immorality or fornication. In other words when you then combine lust and adultery you get this “having a strong desire to have sex with an Individual who you are not married to”. And you mentally picture yourself doing this is of course the reflection of thatdesire
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Are you attracted to Jesus? No, because no one knows what He looks like, nor would any of us have that for someone who didn't have physical qualities.

Is Jesus really a good example? Did you look it up in Strong's?
Fair enough argument and I did look it up in Strong’s but I also looked it up in regards to Matthew 5 as well as the application of adultery in the text. Additionally though your logic is very problematic. I urge you to utilize common sense on this one. If simply longing for someone based off physical attractiveness is a sin... (I will remind you that the wages of sin is death and A fiery pit and bashing of teeth and what not). Then what you’re suggesting is in the process of getting married everyone sins and that God created a sinful process with marriage. Why? Because you usually ask someone out or ask to marry someone after you already “long for them” physically as well as mentally and spiritually of course but you for sure develop if you didn’t immediality have it... an attractiveness to their physical nature . But yeah I’m going to explain present to you the adultery in the verse as well to correct this misconception but just wanted to provide some common sense also
 
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ToBeLoved

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we agree that lust means to have a strong desire for something like I explained already when the Bible says lust of the flesh or eyes it just means overly strong desire for something of the world. But what you fail to do here is acknowledge context and define the definition of adultery so you understand why lust in verses such as this one is defined as an intense sexual desire. Adultery is translated as sexual immorality or fornication. In other words when you then combine lust and adultery you get this “having a strong desire to have sex with an Individual who you are not married to”. And you mentally picture yourself doing this is of course the reflection of thatdesire
i don't agree to that. Lust does not have to be a strong desire. It can be desire.

Did you miss the entire verse I shared? Lust in your heart is adultery.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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i don't agree to that. Lust does not have to be a strong desire. It can be desire.

Did you miss the entire verse I shared? Lust in your heart is adultery.
I clearly just refernced the verse you shared 20 times so idk why you’re asking that. Also for some reason you refuse to accept the definition of adultery
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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i don't agree to that. Lust does not have to be a strong desire. It can be desire.

Did you miss the entire verse I shared? Lust in your heart is adultery.
Lust for sexual desires is adultery. The verse is referring to adultery having a mental context and not just physical like it did in the OT
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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i don't agree to that. Lust does not have to be a strong desire. It can be desire.

Did you miss the entire verse I shared? Lust in your heart is adultery.
Whosever looketh at a woman to lust after her... or whoever looks at a woman for the purpose of satisfying or raising sexual desires. If I stare a woman for the purpose of satisfying that it’s adultry. If you look at a woman for the purpose of lusting what are you doing? You’re trying to satisfy some sexual desire. Also the definition of adultery itself is sex outside of marriage. It goes beyond simply looking at a woman as attractive for a secound or someone you maybe want to marry. The verse straight up says look at a woman for the purpose of lusting. I broke this down in my common sense reply earlier. It’s Refering to simply looking at a woman for the purpose of satisfying a desire and we know because of the term adultry sexual desire. A good example of this would be porn. You can’t take this out of context and try to say this simply refers to even recognizing a woman as attractive just to satisfy some “we sin just by breathing” theology.
 
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SBC

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I understood what you were saying until this part I'm quoting. Can you supply scripture and say again what you mean?

1) all that he does "bad behavior", is NOT accounted as SIN, it is accounted as
FORGIVEN SIN.

1 John 2 [12]
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

You keep saying, YOU are forgiven your sins, while saying, you continue to sin.
How is that possible for Gods Spirit to dwell IN you, while you ARE committing sin?

Further, once forgiven, you struggle between your minds thoughts and your hearts thoughts. Paul taught that, and spoke of his own human struggles, of wanting to follow his mind, instead of his heart.

When you follow your hearts thoughts; YOUR WORKS, Glorify God.
When you follow your minds thoughts; YOUR WORKS, do not Glorify God.
(Remember, the carnal mind is against God).

It is not about you "committing sin". It is about you NOT glorifying God, by what you do.

Glorifying God, IS, the accomplishments of our works.
We don't do works to gain, salvation. We do works after receiving our salvation.
We do works to Glorify God.
We are not "punished" for the sin we were, for the sin we committed. We are forgiven.
We are judged on the works, we did, to Glorify God.
Teach a man Gods Word, is a work, that glorifies God, and you will be Judged for that.
Get drunk on a Sat night. That work, is dead.

It's a process. The more you start listening to your heart, the more your works glorify God. The more you start listening to your heart, the less you acquiesce to the thoughts of your mind. The more that is accomplished, the closer you are to having a mind LIKE Christ.

Remember, ALL of your sins are forgiven. Your forgiveness is NOT about you. It is ALL for His name's sake, that you believed, and He forgave you. Your glory, is you become, born of God, like Him, a son of God. Glory to God is you become Gods inheritance.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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ToBeLoved

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Fair enough argument and I did look it up in Strong’s but I also looked it up in regards to Matthew 5 as well as the application of adultery in the text. Additionally though your logic is very problematic. I urge you to utilize common sense on this one. If simply longing for someone based off physical attractiveness is a sin... (I will remind you that the wages of sin is death and A fiery pit and bashing of teeth and what not). Then what you’re suggesting is in the process of getting married everyone sins and that God created a sinful process with marriage. Why? Because you usually ask someone out or ask to marry someone after you already “long for them” physically as well as mentally and spiritually of course but you for sure develop if you didn’t immediality have it... an attractiveness to their physical nature . But yeah I’m going to explain present to you the adultery in the verse as well to correct this misconception but just wanted to provide some common sense also
Read what the verse says and then read what Strong s says about the Greek word for lust.

I don’t think this one is complicated.

If you don’t like what it says, don’t try to goad me by saying I think breathing is a sin, talk with God and study it yourself.

God said it. Not me
 
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