(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?

[Lee Stuvmen]

Sigh. I really don't want to argue, that's why I stopped responding to and interacting with this post... But, I'll respond.

If you see quoting Scripture as arguing,

#1 you are REALLY MISSING THE POINT
#2 we are both guilty


Why do Catholic ALWAYS THINK you are trying to prove them wrong if you try to enlighten them regarding the Sabbath?

Why do you think I am "trying to prove you wrong?

 

[Devin P]

If you see quoting Scripture as arguing,

#1 you are REALLY MISSING THE POINT
#2 we are both guilty


Why do Catholic ALWAYS THINK you are trying to prove them wrong if you try to enlighten them regarding the Sabbath?

Why do you think I am "trying to prove you wrong?

It's not so much that you're trying to prove me wrong, but I don't understand how you mean I'm not walking in love. How I'm not being zealous in love. You don't know my actions, my heart nor my personality. I'm very loving, and calm and patient. As I've displayed throughout this post.

Was you deciding to keep 7th day sabbath because you felt it justified you? Or because you found out an error, and tried your best to correct it out of love for our Father?

 

[A_Thinker]

All throughout the bible, it talks of people who walked in the way I'm describing. Keeping the law because they were thankful for God's grace and mercy, for God's love and promises, not because they felt they were capable of a feat only our Almighty Creator is capable of. We're but sheep brother. In the spiritual realm we can't lead - we can only be led. If we're not being led by God, we're being led by the enemy.

The scriptures descibe the Hebrews/Jews/Israelites as disobedient, hard-hearted, deaf, dumb, and blind, etc. I do not think that you can find a positive assessment of God's Old Testament people, as a whole, anywhere in scripture.

Of course, the results would have been the same with any other people, as the Hebrews were mainly utilized by God to demonstrate that humankind could not, even adequately, keep God's Law.

They, certainly, are not described as those having and manifesting the secret to pleasing God ...

 

[Devin P]

Of course, the results would have been the same with any other people, as the Hebrews were mainly utilized by God to demonstrate that humankind could not, even adequately, keep God's Law.

They, certainly, are not described as those having and manifesting the secret to pleasing God ...

Genesis 49:10 - The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

No, I'm not saying that they have the secret to pleasing God, but when reading the Torah, you see that God promises that He has to bless those that keep the Torah. He HAS to. And, he HAS to curse those that break it. That's His own word, forever. But, as Israel prophesied about the tribe of Judah, they will keep the law. Not keep it as Messiah kept it, and definitely not out of the faith and love. But, out of all of the tribes, Judah has kept up with the law since this was prophesied. Especially since the other 10 tribes have been dispersed amongst the gentiles and have all forgotten the law, Judah or the "jews" are the only ones to have kept it, and have throughout history, although they represent a 1/4th of 1% of the world's population have been the most influential and successful of all people groups because of their observance to Torah. God Himself promises to bless those that observe Torah, and He promises to curse Torah disobedience. That's what I was referring to, not that they were perfect, or have the key to making God happy. They actually, keep the Torah, but they make their own man-made doctrine, and don't have faith, so they can't please God, but He promises to save them.

Christians, have faith, but don't practice the Torah. So, even if God wanted to, He can't bless us until we come into observance of Torah. Will there be some successful Christians? Absolutely, but the blessings of God, will be so undeniable once we start observing Torah, that it will make Jews jealous to such an extent that they start observing Torah as well (regarding the love it's written about) and they'll start believing in Yeshua (Jesus) and drop their talmud and come to the glory and love of our Savior.

 

[A_Thinker]

No, I'm not saying that they have the secret to pleasing God, but when reading the Torah, you see that God promises that He has to bless those that keep the Torah. He HAS to. And, he HAS to curse those that break it.

The first covenant (of Law) was made with the children of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai ...

Deuteronomy 24

1 Then the Lord instructed Moses: “Come up here to me, and bring along Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and seventy of Israel’s elders. All of you must worship from a distance. 2 Only Moses is allowed to come near to the Lord. The others must not come near, and none of the other people are allowed to climb up the mountain with him.”

3 Then Moses went down to the people and repeated all the instructions and regulations the Lord had given him. All the people answered with one voice, “We will do everything the Lord has commanded.”

4 Then Moses carefully wrote down all the Lord’s instructions. Early the next morning Moses got up and built an altar at the foot of the mountain. He also set up twelve pillars, one for each of the twelve tribes of Israel.5 Then he sent some of the young Israelite men to present burnt offerings and to sacrifice bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses drained half the blood from these animals into basins. The other half he splattered against the altar.

7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it aloud to the people. Again they all responded, “We will do everything the Lord has commanded. We will obey.”

8 Then Moses took the blood from the basins and splattered it over the people, declaring, “Look, this blood confirms the covenant the Lord has made with you in giving you these instructions.”

9 Then Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel climbed up the mountain. 10 There they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there seemed to be a surface of brilliant blue lapis lazuli, as clear as the sky itself. 11 And though these nobles of Israel gazed upon God, he did not destroy them. In fact, they ate a covenant meal, eating and drinking in his presence!

... and the writer to the Hebrews says that that covenant has been superseded by a BETTER covenanant (the covenant of Grace) ...

Hebrews 8

6 But now Jesus has obtained a superior ministry, since the covenant that he mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one.

8 But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord,when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9 “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers,on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. 10 “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people.11 “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.”

13 When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.

 

[A_Thinker]

Especially since the other 10 tribes have been dispersed amongst the gentiles and have all forgotten the law, Judah or the "jews" are the only ones to have kept it, and have throughout history, although they represent a 1/4th of 1% of the world's population have been the most influential and successful of all people groups because of their observance to Torah.

This is, as best, debatable.

One could easily argue that Christianity has been much more influential than ancient (or modern) Judaism ... and that it is Christians who enjoy the most success in the world.

 

[A_Thinker]

Christians, have faith, but don't practice the Torah. So, even if God wanted to, He can't bless us until we come into observance of Torah.

You are, simply, mistaken here ...

Galatians 2

10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”

11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” 12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”

13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

It's not so much that you're trying to prove me wrong, but I don't understand how you mean I'm not walking in love. How I'm not being zealous in love. You don't know my actions, my heart nor my personality. I'm very loving, and calm and patient. As I've displayed throughout this post.

Was you deciding to keep 7th day sabbath because you felt it justified you? Or because you found out an error, and tried your best to correct it out of love for our Father?

I found out an error.

A FATAL ERROR.

I was born into a trap. Sunday observance.
Exodus 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.


So I found a group of Sabbath observers.

But I had escaped one trap, only to be caught up in another cleverly laid trap.

Mosaic Law verses Grace

The two are like oil and water and cannot be mixed
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Satan has all kinds of traps that the UNEDUCATED fall victim to.

Sunday observers say Mosaic Law is dead, but bind themselves to Mosaic Law when they tithe(they call it something else, but it is still 10%)[tithe]

I offer information.

To reject information to continue in comfortable falsehood has no good end.

And the bad thing is, the SDA lifestyle is NOT EASY.

BUT it is pointless if GRACE is ALL that SAVES.

IF YOU SEEK TO FULFILL THE LAW, not eating meat or doing this or that or anything other than to love, is not getting the job done.

Unless the job is to destroy God's people.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

I am off to work shorty but need to clarify.

I believe that you love God with all of your heart, just as all those caught in Satan's death traps.

Who are God's People that are being destroyed?

Anyone that acknowledges God and seeks to worship Him.

EVERY religious denomination on this planet IS A DEATH TRAP designed BY SATAN to ensnare EVEN THE VERY ELECT if it were possible.

Uneducated is not an insult.

We are born uneducated.

That is how we are ensnared.

ONLY KNOWLEDGE can steer us clear of what APPEARS to be righteous, but is truth twisted to condemn.

Proverbs 18:15
The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

THE WHOLE WORLD is deceived.

This DOES NOT EXCLUDE;
Protestants
Catholics
SDA

UNLESS we find ourselves in one of those Social groups

 

[BobRyan]

IF YOU SEEK TO FULFILL THE LAW, not eating meat or doing this or that or anything other than to love, is not getting the job done.

Until you read the actual Bible.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:


James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 2
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Romans 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His

Romans 8 makes it clear - it is the wicked and not the righteous who "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

 

[A_Thinker]

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

We are ALL transgressors of the Law, for one must keep every point of it perfectly.

For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

But LOVE COVERS a multitude of sins ... through God's gracious forgiveness of our sins.

That's what Grace is for ... it is God's forgiveness of our transgressions.

Galatians 2

10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under His curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”

11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” 12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”

13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Until you read the actual Bible.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:


James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

1 Cor 7:19
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 2
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Romans 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His

Romans 8 makes it clear - it is the wicked and not the righteous who "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

The 10 Commandments(written with the finger of God)

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God,



and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

CLEARLY IDENTIFIES the COMMANDMENTS TO BE KEPT!
Matthew 19:16
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he(JESUS) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.




The Law(written by Moses)

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.



The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

Luke 24:44
And he(JESUS) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,






COMMANDMENTS(all 10) STILL IN EFFECT

The Law(written by Moses)[FULFILLED BY CHRIST/Replaced with grace]

Two completely separate articles.


Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you,

whosoever of you are justified by the law;

ye are fallen from grace.



Jesus FULFILLED THE LAW OF MOSES so that God's people would be freed from the burden no man, including yourself can, or ever has been able to keep, including myself.

Only those that have tried to live up to the Law of Moses can appreciate the full value of Christ's sacrifice for His people!




Christ gave us a NEW COMMANDMENT that we might fulfill the "SPIRIT" of the Law.

What IS THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW?

If you love someone, would you;

KILL THEM,
STEAL FROM THEM,
LIE ABOUT THEM,
STEAL THEIR WIFE?



Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


THE SPIRIT of the 10 Commandments IS, WAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE;

TO LOVE!



John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.


Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


THIS was the source of contention between the Pharisee's and Jesus!

 

[Bob S]

The 10 Commandments(written with the finger of God)

Yes, that was a unique thing to do, but are the 10 any more important that the 603 that God had Moses enter into the book of the law?
Revelation 12:17

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God,

Do you see a 10 in "commandments of God"?

and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What does that mean to you?

The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

CLEARLY IDENTIFIES the COMMANDMENTS TO BE KEPT!
Matthew 19:16
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he(JESUS) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

That didn't answer my question.

The man was under the law as was Jesus. We all know that the commandments cannot save us. Abiding by Jesus commands to us is the result of believing in Jesus as our Savior. In fact Paul wrote in 2Cor 3:7-11 that the 10 commandments ere the "the ministry that brought death". In those verses he also tells us tha tthe 10 commandments were transitory and we are not under them, but under the instructions of the Holy Spirit. Here read it for yourself:
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The Law(written by Moses)

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.



The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

Luke 24:44
And he(JESUS) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,

Some do not believe that the 10 commandments were part of the law of Moses, but let me assure you that the 10 commandments were written in the book of the law and were a part of the law of Moses. So, after reading 2Cor3:7-11 and Luke 24:22 we can plainly see that those verses coincide with each other.

COMMANDMENTS(all 10) STILL IN EFFECT

The Law(written by Moses)[FULFILLED BY CHRIST/Replaced with grace]

Two completely separate articles.

This is where you are very mistaken friend. You made a statement and cannot back it up with scripture.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you,

whosoever of you are justified by the law;

ye are fallen from grace.

What you are trying to tell us is that to be justified we must keep the law. Paul wrote in the opening of Gal 3: You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

The law was not given as a means of salvation. It was the rules God set for Israel as the way He wanted them to live in the land of Canaan. Ex 19:5-6 We see in verse 6 above that Abraham was saved by believing. This is how all mankind is saved and Moses knew this and had to have passed it on to all of Israel. They knew how Abraham was saved and he didn't have the law of Moses. Deut 5:1-3 Again, Torah law was not about salvation. The new covenant is all about salvation.

Jesus FULFILLED THE LAW OF MOSES so that God's people would be freed from the burden no man, including yourself can, or ever has been able to keep, including myself.

Absolutely, Jesus fulfilled all the law. That is why Paul could write what he did about the 10 commandments. That is why he could call the Galatians foolish.

Only those that have tried to live up to the Law of Moses can appreciate the full value of Christ's sacrifice for His people!

Amen brother!

Christ gave us a NEW COMMANDMENT that we might fulfill the "SPIRIT" of the Law.

What IS THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW?

If you love someone, would you;

KILL THEM,
STEAL FROM THEM,
LIE ABOUT THEM,
STEAL THEIR WIFE?

Christ gave us a NEW law: JN13: 34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
He told us that He kept His Father's commands (Torah) and asked us to keep His commands. His commands are the laws of love. No ritual commands except communion. No rituals from the now defunct old covenant. He ratified the new covenant with His own blood at Calvary.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


THE SPIRIT of the 10 Commandments IS, WAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE;

TO LOVE!

I have never found anything in the 10 commandments about love. The 10 were about duty to others and God. The greatest commandments to love God and our fellow man are found in the book of the law. The one you you try to tell us was separate from the 10 and were discarded.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Jesus was under Torah law. We are under Jesus law. Jesus law says nothing about the keeping of days. the New Testament is void of asking us to observe any day.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


THIS was the source of contention between the Pharisee's and Jesus!

If Paul would have meant that love means to observe Sabbath then we have to go a lot further and acknowledge that Paul wrote "law" meaning Torah of which there were 613 laws that Israel had to abide by not just the 10 that didn't even include the greatest commands. If he did mean Torah and we have no reason to believe differently then you had better bone up on the ones out of the 613 that would pertain to you. The Temple would need to be rebuilt and the Levitical priesthood restored. you would need to buy tassels for your garments and allow your sideburns to grow like the Hasidic Jews. So many things to think about. But there is a better way to please God and that is the simple plan of salvation found in the new covenant. It is found in 1jn 3:19-24 and it goes like this: This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Simple isn't it???

 

[A_Thinker]

The law was not given as a means of salvation. It was the rules God set for Israel as the way He wanted them to live in the land of Canaan. Ex 19:5-6 We see in verse 6 above that Abraham was saved by believing. This is how all mankind is saved and Moses knew this and had to have passed it on to all of Israel. They knew how Abraham was saved and he didn't have the law of Moses. Deut 5:1-3 Again, Torah law was not about salvation. The new covenant is all about salvation.

Absolutely ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

And ... who let the Light out ...

 

[BobRyan]

The 10 Commandments(written with the finger of God)

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God,



and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

CLEARLY IDENTIFIES the COMMANDMENTS TO BE KEPT!
Matthew 19:16
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he(JESUS) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.




The Law(written by Moses)

John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Called the "Word of God", and "Moses said" and "The Commandment of God" in Mark 7

The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Luke 24:44
And he(JESUS) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,


John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”


COMMANDMENTS(all 10) STILL IN EFFECT

The Law(written by Moses)[FULFILLED BY CHRIST/never replaced

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain.

Thus Christ "Quotes Mose" in Matthew 22
"love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"If you Love Me - Keep My Commandments" John 14:15

Two completely separate articles.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

1 Cor 7:19 "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

 

[A_Thinker]

Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

And ... they let the Light out ...

 

[Bob S]

And ... who let the Light out ...

When I was a kid my neighbor would ask me, every time I saw him, if I was on the beam. It took years before I realized to what he was referring. Now I know it the light we receive from God through the Holy Writ and all of His creation. That beam of truth comes through the cracks and not from any church or people. We can lead people to the water of life, but the Word will make them whole. We all have to study to show ourselves approved. Allow no man to deceive you into believing any works of the law will in any way save.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Called the "Word of God", and "Moses said" and "The Commandment of God" in Mark 7

The TESTIMONY OF CHRIST;

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Luke 24:44
And he(JESUS) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,


John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”


COMMANDMENTS(all 10) STILL IN EFFECT

The Law(written by Moses)[FULFILLED BY CHRIST/never replaced

Thus it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain.

Thus Christ "Quotes Mose" in Matthew 22
"love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"If you Love Me - Keep My Commandments" John 14:15

Two completely separate articles.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

1 Cor 7:19 "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

I am not a "Sunday Christian" although I was born into it.

But speaking as a former Adventist, there are TWO separate mandates.



ONE IS CALLED
the 10 Commandments



The other is called THE LAW of Moses
Luke 24:44
And he(JESUS) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,


They are not combined, and are not the same and are ALWAYS mentioned separately IN SCRIPTURE.


One is call the COMMANDMENTS
1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.


The OTHER is CALLED THE LAW



I keep all 10 Commandments

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.


If you value your eternal life, stop reading that text as this;
1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe THE LAW OF MOSES. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep THE LAW OF MOSES; and THE LAW OF MOSES IS burdensome.


This is exactly why I left the Adventist church, because to explain away the TESTIMONY of Jesus to embrace doctrines of men is foolishness.

At the 1st Angels message, when fear replaces the calcium in men's bones, maybe then your eyes will be opened.

 

[Lee Stuvmen]

Yes, that was a unique thing to do, but are the 10 any more important that the 603 that God had Moses enter into the book of the law?
Revelation 12:17

Do you see a 10 in "commandments of God"?


What does that mean to you?


That didn't answer my question.

The man was under the law as was Jesus. We all know that the commandments cannot save us. Abiding by Jesus commands to us is the result of believing in Jesus as our Savior. In fact Paul wrote in 2Cor 3:7-11 that the 10 commandments ere the "the ministry that brought death". In those verses he also tells us tha tthe 10 commandments were transitory and we are not under them, but under the instructions of the Holy Spirit. Here read it for yourself:
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!






Some do not believe that the 10 commandments were part of the law of Moses, but let me assure you that the 10 commandments were written in the book of the law and were a part of the law of Moses. So, after reading 2Cor3:7-11 and Luke 24:22 we can plainly see that those verses coincide with each other.






This is where you are very mistaken friend. You made a statement and cannot back it up with scripture.

What you are trying to tell us is that to be justified we must keep the law. Paul wrote in the opening of Gal 3: You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

The law was not given as a means of salvation. It was the rules God set for Israel as the way He wanted them to live in the land of Canaan. Ex 19:5-6 We see in verse 6 above that Abraham was saved by believing. This is how all mankind is saved and Moses knew this and had to have passed it on to all of Israel. They knew how Abraham was saved and he didn't have the law of Moses. Deut 5:1-3 Again, Torah law was not about salvation. The new covenant is all about salvation.



Absolutely, Jesus fulfilled all the law. That is why Paul could write what he did about the 10 commandments. That is why he could call the Galatians foolish.


Amen brother!

Christ gave us a NEW law: JN13: 34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
He told us that He kept His Father's commands (Torah) and asked us to keep His commands. His commands are the laws of love. No ritual commands except communion. No rituals from the now defunct old covenant. He ratified the new covenant with His own blood at Calvary.



I have never found anything in the 10 commandments about love. The 10 were about duty to others and God. The greatest commandments to love God and our fellow man are found in the book of the law. The one you you try to tell us was separate from the 10 and were discarded.



Jesus was under Torah law. We are under Jesus law. Jesus law says nothing about the keeping of days. the New Testament is void of asking us to observe any day.



If Paul would have meant that love means to observe Sabbath then we have to go a lot further and acknowledge that Paul wrote "law" meaning Torah of which there were 613 laws that Israel had to abide by not just the 10 that didn't even include the greatest commands. If he did mean Torah and we have no reason to believe differently then you had better bone up on the ones out of the 613 that would pertain to you. The Temple would need to be rebuilt and the Levitical priesthood restored. you would need to buy tassels for your garments and allow your sideburns to grow like the Hasidic Jews. So many things to think about. But there is a better way to please God and that is the simple plan of salvation found in the new covenant. It is found in 1jn 3:19-24 and it goes like this: This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Simple isn't it???

In Scripture it is written,

bind yourself to ONE and you are bound to ALL.

Sunday Christians believe they can pick and choose which of the 10 Commandments are still binding.
Adventists condemn them for that.

Adventist's think they can pick and choose which Laws of Moses are still binding.
God will condemn them for that.


Galatians 5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised(follow Mosaic Law), Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised (following Mosiac Law), that he is a debtor to do the whole Mosaic law.(SACRIFICES NOT EXCLUDED)

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Romans 4:14
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: