Is belief that Jesus is YHWH necessary for salvation?

[Saved.By.Grace]

I don't know if you saw my earlier question, but I'm wondering where you learned your Greek from, as well as how long you've been studying it. I wanted to know that from all of you guys who were talking about the Greek. I find it interesting.

I'm also wondering if there might have been a change in the Greek language itself between the biblical days and when the Nicene Creed was written. I know that English changes over time. Could some words have changed meaning, or different words come into the vocabulary that might account for the change?

I agree with you in regard to there being One God: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- one Deity and three Persons. Co-eternal, co-essential, and co-equal, in every way.

I have been studying Greek since early 1983 not long after I was born-again. I was once reading my King James Bible, as a new believer and in the same room was a lady who saw me and started talking with me. She showed me from her "bible" that John 1:1 was "wrong" in the KJV, and it should read "a god". This did not sound right, and this incident started my journey into deeper studies in to the Word of God. My knowledge is mainly self-taught, so I am always open to correction, as I am not a "scholar" by any means. I believe that the right heart and attitude, and more importantly, the Holy Spirit's Teaching, is the best combination in understanding His Word! With regards to the Greek language, there is modern Greek these days, but for the time of the NT and the Church fathers, nothing much changed, except some word meanings. Sadly for the sake of "unity", the Orthodox Church did compromise with some of its theology, many of them embraced the heretical "eternal generation" of Jesus from Essence of the Father, as taught by Origen.

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus didn't have to have a bent towards sin in order to be tempted the same as us. Being tempted doesn't mean that we have to fall into sin.

Even us,with our sinful nature, we don't give into sin every single time we are tempted (though of course we do still sin at other times.)

so when James teaches "just the same as us" he means Jesus was nothing like us? being as Jesus didnt have the "bent" nature? again this sounds like Jesus was nothing like us which makes James words make no sense at all.
just so you know i dont think He had a sin nature, i also dont believe in any sin nature. and i believe what James teaches proves that.

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I know you were, I was just adding to your conversation...

Thought so. Just wanted to make sure. It's odd to have someone quote you without an acknowledgment such as, "I agree with this, and in addition...." That just helps to eliminate confusion

 

[Baby Cottontail]

I have been studying Greek since early 1983 not long after I was born-again. I was once reading my King James Bible, as a new believer and in the same room was a lady who saw me and started talking with me. She showed me from her "bible" that John 1:1 was "wrong" in the KJV, and it should read "a god". This did not sound right, and this incident started my journey into deeper studies in to the Word of God. My knowledge is mainly self-taught, so I am always open to correction, as I am not a "scholar" by any means. I believe that the right heart and attitude, and more importantly, the Holy Spirit's Teaching, is the best combination in understanding His Word! With regards to the Greek language, there is modern Greek these days, but for the time of the NT and the Church fathers, nothing much changed, except some word meanings. Sadly for the sake of "unity", the Orthodox Church did compromise with some of its theology, many of them embraced the heretical "eternal generation" of Jesus from Essence of the Father, as taught by Origen.

Thanks for answering

I am guessing that the lady with you in the same room might have been a Jehovah's Witness? They are about the only people know who will say that it should be "a god," although some other Unitarians might agree.

I can't offer any correction, since I don't know Greek at all. It's definitely a valuable skill to have, and I can see how it could strengthen a person's study of Scripture...to be able to go back to the original languages and really look to see what it says.

And thanks for answering my question regarding the Greek language. Yes, I know that biblical Greek is different from today's modern Greek. I just wasn't sure when it began to change, and whether the change was gradual or sudden.

 

[Yanni depp]

Hoping someone will correct me.

First reading this thread, i was confused.
I thought YHWH was the personal name of the Father?

 

[Baby Cottontail]

Hoping someone will correct me.

First reading this thread, i was confused.
I thought YHWH was the personal name of the Father?

The personal name of God in the OT.

If there is one one God, and Jesus is also God, then He must be the same God as the OT God.

This means that it is YHWH who is triune.

Thus:
The Father is YHWH
The Son is YHWH
The Holy Spirit is YHWH
The whole triune God is YHWH

 

[Baby Cottontail]

so when James teaches "just the same as us" he means Jesus was nothing like us? being as Jesus didnt have the "bent" nature? again this sounds like Jesus was nothing like us which makes James words make no sense at all.
just so you know i dont think He had a sin nature, i also dont believe in any sin nature. and i believe what James teaches proves that.

No. Not "nothing like us." Jesus was fully human.

Jesus = both 100% human and 100% God at the same time.

 

[he-man]

I have been studying Greek since early 1983 not long after I was born-again. I was once reading my King James Bible, as a new believer and in the same room was a lady who saw me and started talking with me. She showed me from her "bible" that John 1:1 was "wrong" in the KJV, and it should read "a god". This did not sound right, and this incident started my journey into deeper studies in to the Word of God. My knowledge is mainly self-taught, so I am always open to correction, as I am not a "scholar" by any means. I believe that the right heart and attitude, and more importantly, the Holy Spirit's Teaching, is the best combination in understanding His Word! With regards to the Greek language, there is modern Greek these days, but for the time of the NT and the Church fathers, nothing much changed, except some word meanings. Sadly for the sake of "unity", the Orthodox Church did compromise with some of its theology, many of them embraced the heretical "eternal generation" of Jesus from Essence of the Father, as taught by Origen.

Yes, The Tyndale Bible translates it as: "In the beginning was the word and the word was regarding God and God was the word."

 

[Yanni depp]

The personal name of God in the OT.

If there is one one God, and Jesus is also God, then He must be the same God as the OT God.

This means that it is YHWH who is triune.

Thus:
The Father is YHWH
The Son is YHWH
The Holy Spirit is YHWH
The whole triune God is YHWH

Thank you. So YHWH would be more like a title than a name?

 

[jaybird88]

No. Not "nothing like us." Jesus was fully human.

Jesus = both 100% human and 100% God at the same time.

so we are all 100% G-D? like Jesus?

 

[Neostarwcc]

so we are all 100% G-D? like Jesus?

No, of course not. That wasn't what she was saying.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I honestly don't see where this question is a response to one thing in my somewhat post. A post which had scriptural support for every point I was dealing with. So your one line response befuddles me. Does it mean that you now 'do' agree with my whole post's position and the scriptures given? Or does your 'question' mean you still totally disagree, but want to divert me on this new bunny trail? A trail which appears to even ask me to give you a scripture for your POV which I actually disagree with, but for reasons which I doubt are even on your mind?

Let me just say this, concerning your question above; To answer you best, I'd like to ask you two things. What do you know about the similarity between 'Jesus and you' being triune beings, which consists of 'spirit and soul and body'? Also, have you ever studied as to why scripture says "Jesus Christ" 136 times and "Christ Jesus" 86 times? Questions like these 2 figure in to where my answer for 'your question' above, will have came from. And quite honestly, those who are simply religiously indoctrinated are usually pretty clueless to things I've studied at length with the influence of just those 2 questions for you. And since the scriptures are as shallow or as deep as the ones interacting, knowing where others can 'swim or drown' figures in to where 'we' should go...don't you think?

Hi, I forget what we were even talking about now. So I'm confused. Just forget it and move on.

 

[he-man]

The Persons are the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is what is in the middle of the Trinity diagram that was posted earlier today. In other words, God is YHWH, and each of the Persons is YHWH. However, the Persons are not each other. (The Father is not the Son, the Father is not the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father, the Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Son, the Holy Spirit is not the Father.)

1John 5:7-8 is spurious and was not in the originals [Metzger] As you should well know by now.
Secondlyly we have to deal with Micah 3:8; Psalms 104:30; Psalms 139:7; Job 34:14-15; and Luke 1:35. Christ also said," see my hands and my feet they are not spiritual.."

 

[jaybird88]

No, of course not. That wasn't what she was saying.

my mistake, she said no in the response to Jesus was nothing like us, so i assumed she meant Jesus was one us us, Jesus was the Most High so we must be the Most High?

 

[Neostarwcc]

my mistake, she said no in the response to Jesus was nothing like us, so i assumed she meant Jesus was one us us, Jesus was the Most High so we must be the Most High?

We aren't Gods nor can we ever be. Jesus was the exception because he was God in the first place. He was God who became a man to suffer on the cross for our sins.

 

[jaybird88]

1John 5:7-8 is spurious and was not in the originals [Metzger] As you should well know by now.

wait a sec, are you saying someone added to the scripture? is that not strictly forbidden by the Most High Himself? what kind of person adds to the scripture and what would the motivation be behind this?

 

[Saved.By.Grace]

1John 5:7-8 is spurious and was not in the originals [Metzger] As you should well know by now.
Secondlyly we have to deal with Micah 3:8; Psalms 104:30; Psalms 139:7; Job 34:14-15; and Luke 1:35. Christ also said," see my hands and my feet they are not spiritual.."

1 John 5:7-8 is part of the original Epistle that John wrote. See my study on the internal Greek evidence for it, http://www.trinitystudies.org/Trinity/1jn5.6-10.pdf

 

[jaybird88]

We aren't Gods nor can we ever be. Jesus was the exception because he was God in the first place. He was God who became a man to suffer on the cross for our sins.

and that would make Jesus like us or unlike us?

 

[Neostarwcc]

and that would make Jesus like us or unlike us?

Jesus is like us in ways. But, that doesn't make us God's either. We are far from Gods.

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus is like us in ways. But, that doesn't make us God's either. We are far from Gods.

so that would make Him like us but not like us?