Can a Christian sin and still be saved?

Soyeong

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Can a Christian sin and still be saved?

This was asked of me in a previous thread.

So, what say you?

According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and being trained to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful. As part of our training, we aren't always going to do the right thing, but we are nevertheless moving in that direction. In 1 John 3:4-10, it saying that those who continue to practice sin/Lawlessness have neither seen nor known him and those who do not practice righteousness are not children of God. So the issue is not that a Christian can't sin and be saved, but that a Christian can't practice sin and be saved. When we do sin, we need to practice repentance and turn back to obedience.
 
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JIMINZ

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And some would say that you only sin if you are NOT [spiritually] alive.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​
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It says this as well.

1Jn. 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn. 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
 
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Basil the Great

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I asked my Great Grandfather a question like this one 50+ years ago. He was perhaps the most devout Christian that I have ever known and if it means anything, he was a Baptist. Anway, he told me that if we keep sinning the same sin over and over, that God will not forgive us. I told his daughter, my Great Aunt, what he said maybe 25 years ago and she was also a Baptist. However, she said that she did not believe that Great Grampa's answer agreed with the Scriptures. I hope that my Great Aunt was correct, for if not, many Christians are in deep trouble.
 
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JIMINZ

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The niv says:- No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

In simple practical terms, Christians ALL sin, even the apostle Paul wrote about 'the evil I don't want to do, I do'.
So either there are No Christians or your translation is incorrect.
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You post a verse, and then say it is incorrect giving two examples as to why, but there is a third possible explanation, which is the most likely.

Your Interpretation, Understanding is Incorrect.
 
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JIMINZ

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What is sin? Define sin.
.
1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
 
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SAAN

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Can a Christian sin and still be saved?

This was asked of me in a previous thread.

So, what say you?
Big difference between a sin and repentance of it vs living a sinful lifestyle.

Stealing vs serial burgalar.
Act of fornication vs going from person to person without a care in the world.
Or any other sin you may do and try to repent and turn from it vs those who live worldly and worse than heathens themself and think they are good because of OSAS.
 
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JIMINZ

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I bow to your knowledge of greek.

But you haven't answered the question raised by the KJV. If Christians do not sin, are we, who claim to be Christian and do sin, really Christian?
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Hmmm.
Maybe you should ask this.

If I claim to follow the sinless Christ, while claiming myself to be a sinner, am I not therefore a sinner?
 
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disciple1

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Can a Christian sin and still be saved?

This was asked of me in a previous thread.

So, what say you?
1 Kings chapter 8 verse 46
"When they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you become angry with them and give them over to their enemies, who take them captive to their own lands, far away or near;
2 Chronicles chapter 6 verse 36
"When they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to a land far away or near;
Ecclesiastes chapter 7 verse 20
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

Proverbs chapter 10 verse 12
Love covers all wrongs.


Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
 
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TaylorSexton

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I bow to your knowledge of greek.

I wouldn’t, because that comment has no basis in knowledge of Greek (which is why, I presume, it was deleted; I was only able to even see it through your quoting of it). It makes no difference on whether or not the word “continue” is “in the text," because Greek, unlike English, does not rely on words to relay this type of verbal communication—commonly called "verbal aspect." Rather, these types of verbs (commonly called customary) are communicated in the tense of the verb, not by a mere word. (As far as I am aware, biblical Greek has to word for “continue” in this sense—again, because it doesn't need it.)

Of course, that being said, he is at least partially right; the translation in the NIV still seems to be lacking. Here is Daniel Wallace, who is one of the world’s leading experts on Greek grammar (to whose knowledge of Greek we should bow):

“Many older commentaries have taken the highlighted presents (as well as others in vv 4-10) as customary (a view especially popularized by British scholars, principally Westcott): does not continually sin . . . does not continually sin . . . does not practice sin . . . is not able to habitually sin. Taking the presents this way seems to harmonize well with 1:8-10, for to deny one’s sin is to disagree with God’s assessment. But there are several arguments against this interpretation: (1) The very subtlety of this approach is against it. (2) It seems to contradict 5:16 (ἐάν τις ἴδῃ τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ ἁμαρτάνοντα ἁμαρτίαν μὴ πρὸς θάνατον [if anyone sees his brother sinning a sin not unto death]). The author juxtaposes ‘brother’ with the present tense of ἁμαρτάνω with the proclamation that such might not lead to death. On the customary present view, the author should not be able to make this statement. (3) Gnomic presents most frequently occur with generic subjects (or objects). Further, ‘the sense of a generic utterance is usually an absolute statement of what each one does once, and not a statement of the individual’s customary or habitual activity.’ This certainly fits the pattern.

“How should we then take the present tenses here? The immediate context seems to be speaking in terms of a projected eschatological reality. The larger section of this letter addresses the bright side of the eschaton: Since Christians are in the last days, their hope of Christ’s imminent return should produce godly living (2:28-3:10). The author first articulates how such an eschatological hope should produce holiness (2:28-3:3). Then, without marking that his discussion is still in the same vein, he gives a proleptic view of sanctification (3:4-10)—that is, he gives a hyperbolic picture of believers vs. unbelievers, implying that even though believers are not yet perfect, they are moving in that direction (3:6, 9 need to be interpreted proleptically), while unbelievers are moving away from truth (3:10; cf. 2:19). Thus, the author states in an absolute manner truths that are not yet true, because he is speaking within the context of eschatological hope (2:28-3:3) and eschatological judgment (2:18-19).”[1]

[1] Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1996), 524–25; various emphases original.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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well, Paul called himself the greatest of sinners. He spoke of doing that which he did not want to do and not doing what he wanted to do. But salvation is based on accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour, Romans 10:9.

But I think that living a more godly life stores up treasures in heaven.
 
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GingerBeer

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Can a Christian sin and still be saved?

This was asked of me in a previous thread.

So, what say you?
Yes.

If you asked "Can a Christian willingly and persistently choose sin over righteousness and still be saved?" then the answer would be No.
 
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JIMINZ

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There is only one sinless one. We are called to be blameless.

Forgive me...
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At this point, aren't you just splitting a Theological hair?

1) The word Sinless is not found in the Bible.
2) The understanding of Sinless with regard to Christ comes from.

Heb. 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb. 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Now with regard to Christians being Blameless, Christians do not stand in their own Righteousness, but in the Righteousness which is of God through Christ.

2Cor. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom. 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


BLAMELESS:
G338
ἀναίτιος
anaitios
an-ah'ee-tee-os
innocent: - blameless, guiltless.

G273
ἄμεμπτος
amemptos
am'-emp-tos
irreproachable: - blameless, faultless, unblamable.

G274
ἀμέμπτως
amemptōs
am-emp'-toce
Adverb from G273; faultlessly: - blameless, unblamably.

G410
ἀνέγκλητος
anegklētos
an-eng'-klay-tos
unaccused, that is, (by implication) irreproachable: - blameless.

G423
ἀνεπίληπτος
anepilēptos
an-ep-eel'-ape-tos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G1949; not arrested, that is, (by implication) inculpable: - blameless, unrebukeable.

G298
ἀμώμητος
amōmētos
am-o'-may-tos
unblameable: - blameless.
 
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GingerBeer

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I find the NIV to be "watery" in that it plays fast and loose with the translation at times.
I gave the KJV.

For instance, there is no "continue" in the Greek in that verse; and where the NIV puts "go on," the Greek has dynamai which means "have the power to..." Rather different connotation there.
ποιει (poiei) is the word translated as "commit" in the KJV and it's definition is
To make, do, expressing action either as completed or continued.
Figuratively spoken of a state or condition, or of things intangible and incorporeal, and generally of such things as are produced by an inward act of the mind or will; to make, cause, bring about, occasion.
Spoken of a course of action or conduct, to do, execute, exercise, practice.
1Jn 3:7, "that doeth righteousness"​
Taking the definition and use of the word in verse 7 of the same chapter the idea is to continue in sin to do it and keep doing it. Thus translating as follows is sound - "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9 (ESV)
 
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-Luca

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I asked my Great Grandfather a question like this one 50+ years ago. He was perhaps the most devout Christian that I have ever known and if it means anything, he was a Baptist. Anway, he told me that if we keep sinning the same sin over and over, that God will not forgive us. I told his daughter, my Great Aunt, what he said maybe 25 years ago and she was also a Baptist. However, she said that she did not believe that Great Grampa's answer agreed with the Scriptures. I hope that my Great Aunt was correct, for if not, many Christians are in deep trouble.
Yeah, that is me gone if so.
 
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JIMINZ

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I am not sure there is an answer that will lay that question to rest for everyone.

Elsewhere in that same book John says that if we claim that we do not sin we call God a liar, and have no truth in ourselves. (my paraphrase from memory)

What we do know is that if we are saved, and continue to repent, we have unfettered fellowship with HIM. And when we repent HE is faithful and just to forgive us.
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If you think about what you have said, it really doesn't make logical sense.

John is writing a letter, he clearly says the following in the first chapter.

1Jn. 1:9
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The question arises, did John write these words knowing full well, that further on in his letter (Chapter 3) he was going to contradict them?

1Jn 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

If John did not do this, then the verses in John 1, can not be used to Contradict, or Refute what subsequently was written in John 3.

If it is believed the John 1, verses do in fact refute the verses in John 3, then nothing in the Bible is to be understood as reliable, and Truth.

Rather than our saying these verses Refute those verses, we should find a way for us to reconcile all of the verses in question, because we all know, John clearly didn't contradict himself.
 
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Marvin Knox

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And some would say that you only sin if you are NOT [spiritually] alive.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

My new man cannot sin.

My old man can't do much of anything but sin.​
 
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