Jesus Held to Sola Scriptura

[Neogaia777]

Can you handle the freedom believers in the gospel of grace have...?

I think some cannot...

I am free to all things, but not all things are good for or beneficial for me, or to me... (or others)...

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hence:
When we were controlled by the sinfull nature, the sinfull passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies bringing forth fruit for death

 

[Neogaia777]

Let's put it another way.
If you feared hell by breaking commandments, every time a sinfull thought came into your head you would get, nervous, agitated, worked up, overwrought etc.
They are all dictionary definitions if the word excite. So you then, strange as it may seem, get excited when sinfull thoughts come to you.
That's not just quoting the letter if scripture you see.

We need to quit getting addicted to the excitement of fear, sin, and sinful thoughts, some, many do not think they realize that it can be like a addiction, as many of our sinful thoughts and behaviors can, even chemically in the brain...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Hence:
When we were controlled by the sinfull nature, the sinfull passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies bringing forth fruit for death

Death being a necessary first step in being born again and in being able to accept and understand the gospel of grace...

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm trying to solve why the law was designed by God to be that way, and trying to connect it to the good news of the gospel of grace...

 

[stuart lawrence]

I'm trying to solve why the law was designed by God to be that way, and trying to connect it to the good news of the gospel of grace...

It wasn't. King David understood the truth.
He loved God, and knew he was secure in Gods love for him. He delighted in obeying Gods laws because he loved him. NOT in order to earn his way to heaven
For David knew, no one was truly righteous before God:

Do not bring your servant into judgement, for no one living is righteous before you
Psalms143:2

The phariseeical attitude was the problem:
If you don't obey the letter you will be condemned to hell.

What was the result in their own lives of such thinking?
They were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside( Matt ch23

 

[Neogaia777]

It wasn't. King David understood the truth.
He loved God, and knew he was secure in Gods love for him. He delighted in obeying Gods laws because he lived him. NOaT in order to earn his way to heaven
For David knew, no one was truly righteous before God:

Do not bring your servant into judgement, for no onw living us righteous before you
Psalms143:2

The phariseeical attitude was the problem.
Obey the law to be righteous before before God. If you don't obey the letter you will be condemned to hell. What was the result in their own lives if such thinking?
They were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside( Matt ch23

David did not obey the law all his life, if he really even obeyed it at all, David knew about (God's) Love covering sin(s), he also still saw the law as the target or mark to hit or meet, in this he delighted in, grace (God's grace and mercy and love) is in between the beginning and end, which is the law...

 

[stuart lawrence]

David did not obey the law all his life, if he really even obeyed it at all, David knew about (God's) Love covering sin(s), he also still saw the law as the target or mark to hit or meet, in this he delighted in, grace (God's grace and mercy and love) is in between the beginning and end, which is the law...

Yes
David ultimately trusted in Gods unfailing love for ever and ever.

The Pharisees neglected the love of God( luke11:42) relying instead on being good enough by observing the law

 

[Neogaia777]

Something happens when you try to keep the law especially on your own, especially by yourself, it almost becomes sinful because it becomes self-righteousness...

 

[Anguspure]

Bolded above. To what extent?

That would be up to the Spirit would it not?

Even for teaching that is at first glance Biblical or even technically correct, I find that it "jangles" something in me, and often later on I observe that it was not from God according to His timing and His manner. Even something that is technically, theologically true can be divisive, heretical and counter to the Spirit when used in the wrong way at the wrong time.

But if we look in the books of the Bible we find that John was pretty clear: Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. (1 John 4)

Matthew quotes Jesus: Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Matthew 7)

and Paul shows us what this fruit looks like: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other....

...You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other....

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.... (Galatians 5)

Of course it is good to study, discuss and debate. But we have used theology that no person can know with any certainty as a tool to divide the body and so destroyed each other. We have, to a large degree, been enslaved by theological correctness at the expense of deep love and unity.

 

[redleghunter]

Even something that is technically, theologically true can be divisive, heretical and counter to the Spirit when used in the wrong way at the wrong time.

Examples?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The totality of scripture taken as whole is (or will be) about, or is, the (good news of) the "gospel of (the) grace" (of God)...

This is why teachers and believer's in law, just don't get it...

God Bless!

Yes. Those seeking to justify themselves didn't get it 2,000 years ago, and they don't get it today.

The law is just the backdrop for the gospel.

 

[Anguspure]

Examples?

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19)

I would also suggest that the same sort of allowance applies for slavery, capital punishment, war and even issues such as racial distinctions as taught Biblically in the OT that do not reflect the original and complete Truth of God.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19)

I would also suggest that the same sort of allowance applies for slavery, capital punishment, war and even issues such as racial distinctions as taught Biblically in the OT that do not reflect the original and complete Truth of God.

Good points. It's interesting to note, people accepted by the NT church as believers wanted gentile converts to be circumcised and obey the law of Moses( Acts ch15:5) Then at the other end of the spectrum was the Apostle Paul. In fact, there could be said to be two different sets of rules running at the same time. Many Jewish Christians were observing Jewish laws, while Gentiles were only asked to observe four, three of which it is widely believed were given to appease Jewish legalists who had become Christians.
I believe it is as you said yesterday. They all united around the core beliefs of the faith. I think it would be naive, apart from that to believe there were no differences at all. And all the different views couldn't be perfectly correct could they
Of course, it was much easier in those days. The creed's that were to come were not then in existance, neither the doctrines of scholars and theologians that were to emerge after the first century, that became required, cast in stone beliefs.
So the first century church had more latitude to be one broad church, again, as you said, united by the core beliefs of the faith
I'm sure the Apostles would cringe, if they could see the various denominations of today, all proclaiming they have a monopoly on the truth

 

[stuart lawrence]

In fact, if the Apostle paul was alive today, if he stood in the pulpit of many churches and proclaimed the Christian has no righteousness of observing the law( which is not committing sin, 1john3:4) he would be thrown out for heresy.


I'm sure any church who believed in sola scripture wouldn't consider paul a heretic though for stating that! They would warmly endorse his words

 

[redleghunter]

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19)

I would also suggest that the same sort of allowance applies for slavery, capital punishment, war and even issues such as racial distinctions as taught Biblically in the OT that do not reflect the original and complete Truth of God.

I was not clear enough. What examples facing the church today?

 

[Anguspure]

I was not clear enough. What examples facing the church today?

I have encountered a number of occasions where the truth about a situation was that a brother was incorrect in the way that they were living (concerning drug use, anger issues, sexual behaviour etc). Where one could have bludgeoned them to death with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth about these things.

However, lead by the Spirit, an approach that focuses on a partial revelation in the interests of building a relationship with the Truth is observed to be a whole lot more effective in bringing unity, Love, good fruit and, yes, Truth to the situation.

 

[redleghunter]

I have encountered a number of occasions where the truth about a situation was that a brother was incorrect in the way that they were living (concerning drug use, anger issues, sexual behaviour etc). Where one could have bludgeoned them to death with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth about these things.

However, lead by the Spirit, an approach that focuses on a partial revelation in the interests of building a relationship with the Truth is observed to be a whole lot more effective in bringing unity, Love, good fruit and, yes, Truth to the situation.

You speak of a pastoral type of care bringing a brother back. I agree these are very delicate situations and much care and Christian love are in order.

 

[Anguspure]

You speak of a pastoral type of care bringing a brother back. I agree these are very delicate situations and much care and Christian love are in order.

Yes and Truth in accordance with His Spirit.

 

[rjs330]

Moses wrote:
And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God as he has commanded us, this will be our righteousness
Deut6:25

In Matt 23:2-4 Jesus states the Pharisees did not practice what they preached. They tied up heavy loads on the people and they crushed them with their demands.
This cannot possibly be referring to their man made rules, for they faultlessly obeyed them. It regards what they preached but did NOT practice. Therefore it concerns the law given at Sania.
The Pharisees preached obedience to the law in order to be righteous before God/ to Inherit eternal life. Moses stated the same thing in deut 6:25.
So how did the Pharisees err in what they preached? And how, by endorsing what Moses stated did they weigh the people down and crush them with what they placed on their shoulders?

We know that the Pharisees taught scripture that is true. But we also know they added to scripture. They had a whole list of things they added on to the law. And you are right in that they didn't practice what they preached, Jesus was pretty clear on that.

Jesus also rebukes their traditions. But the real point is Jesus never taught from any other writing than scripture. He never claimed anything else had the authority of scripture.