Does Jesus Himself condemn Sola Scripitra?

[concretecamper]

Thus any Roman Catholic can in good conscience as part of advocating for reunion with the Eastern Orthodox reject Vatican I

Utterly false and dangerous for any member of His Church.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Please have a blessed Palm Sunday my Roman Catholic friends, and join me in praying for the reconciliation of our churches - we may disagree about what needs to happen in order for reconciliation to occur, but we do agree it should occur.

God loves all of His Creation and that means you too. I think we could all use more humility which is our primary Christian virtue. As the word says remember your first love.
Our Lord calls all, if any man come after me, let him first deny his very self, take up his cross and begin to follow in my footsteps

God bless you and continue to pray for reconciliation

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I think the real issue might be in seeing this diversity as a problem in the first place. The existence of differing interpretations doesn't invalidate Sola Scriptura, it just reminds us that human understanding is limited, and we must approach Scripture with humility, study, and dependence on the Holy Spirit. The question isn’t whether people will disagree, but where final authority rests when they do, for Protestants, that's the Bible, not any one individual or council.

God does love variety. He did not say that only one kind of person can be a Christian. He says they come from every nation, tribe and tongue

The problem comes when the interpretations are contradictory or exclusionary. God is not a man that He should lie, but people do.
The Israelites were God’s chosen people. They relied on the scriptures and relied on sola scriptura so much that they lost sight of what they meant. It got so bad that God Himself had to come to earth to offer a New Covenant to set them straight
Jesus built His Church. It was not invented by men. He gave His authority to the Apostles primarily to Peter to whom He gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
The Church preached the Gospel and shared the grace of God with the world. We have a record of their teaching that is apart from the Bible as a matter of historical record
The original Church had seven sacraments which communicated God’s grace. Baptism, penance, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony and anointing of the sick.
All are in the Bible and all are backed up by scripture yet practically all are denied by the Protestant brethren.
They say baptism is not necessary for salvation, it is an optional ritual of no real effect.
They say penance is not necessary, good works don’t do anything either. They say the Eucharist is just a symbol of no real substance. Confirmation is changed from a solemn sacrament to saying I love my yellow Honda 20 times fast and claim to have received the Holy Spirit. They deny the priesthood or the necessity of apostolic succession itself. Matrimony is denied and the significance of the two becoming one flesh is destroyed by contraception and abortion, it becomes just a contract between a man and woman to start having intercourse without regard to its purpose. The anointing of the sick is severely diminished as the priesthood and the Eucharist necessary for the sacrament are denied.

What happened? Or as Paul would say Who has bewitched you? Apostle means one who is sent, an ambassador given the authority to speak for God and share His grace, yet all of their teaching is denied and abandoned.
I don’t think this is what God has in mind with a variety of sola scriptura. Rivers of living water are thrown away for broken cisterns that can hold no water.
Not only has apostolic teaching been abandoned for the sake of variety, but those seeking the truth are told that they are following a pagan system, the harlot of Babylon or are taking the mark of the beast

Read Iraneus, demonstration of the Apostolic teaching, then look what is being taught by those that claim sola scriptura. See any difference?

The grace of God flows through the sacraments by the Holy Spirit, and everything the Bible says is true. What good does it do to deny it?

 

[concretecamper]

God does love variety. He did not say that only one kind of person can be a Christian. He says they come from every nation, tribe and tongue

Yes, God does not discriminate.

However, according to the NT, Christians are those who have been Water Baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

According to the Gospel, that's the way it is.

 

[Jermayn]

Catholics are required as a matter of faith to accept the teaching of the ordinary magisterium of the Church, over which the Pope rules infallibly

That does not mean that every word that comes form his mouth is from God, but he is the guardian of the faith, and there is no appeal of a final ruling by the Pope.

Oh there are many so called “cafeteria Catholics” that pick and choose what they want to believe, but they are in error. Some even want to call the Pope a heretic and claim to speak above him. That is also error.
Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven. Keys is plural. One is teaching authority and the other is political authority. To rebel against teaching authority is heresy, and to rebel against political authority is schism. Both are equally evil and they do injury to the body of Christ.
Both are sins, yet Christ can forgive if we repent. Judas rebelled against Christs teaching authority in that he scoffed at the bread of life discourse and betrayed Our Lord. He did not repent and is lost the son of perdition. Peter betrayed the political authority of Christ when Jesus told him of suffering. “Lord, pray that this never happen to you” Jesus said get behind me Satan. Peter repented, Christ forgave him and made him the first Pope. We note that the Apostles did not elect him but Jesus Himself restored him, countering his three denials, Simon son of Jonah lovest thou me? Feed my lambs.

If these sins are done in ignorance, they can be forgiven. The Catholic Church does not judge you, nor do I judge you, but as Jesus told the Pharisees Moses would be their judge, Paul will be your judge
Almost all Protestant denominations have something evil to say about the Catholic Church, from we are ignorant and don’t know the Bible or the Gospel to we are evil pagans that carry the mark of the beast , yet no one can show a scripture that contradicts the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Causes one to wonder

I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and this information. I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have an in-depth understanding of all aspects of Catholic theology, so I’m not here to critique Catholicism as a whole. I’m simply sharing why I believe in the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, that Scripture is the only infallible authority for the Christian faith. But I would like to gently address a couple of points from your post.

You mentioned “cafeteria Catholics” who pick and choose which doctrines to follow. We encounter similar issues in Protestant churches as well. However, I’ve often heard this kind of inconsistency used to accuse Protestants of being heretics, whereas in practice, both traditions deal with members who struggle or disagree with core doctrines. Most Protestant congregations share a common foundation on Sola Scriptura and other essential teachings. If someone departs from those foundations and begins causing division, it’s typically handled through congregational governance, sometimes resulting in church discipline or removal.

As for the accusation that Protestants demonize the Catholic Church, I’ll admit that one of the biggest areas of tension is usually doctrine surrounding Mary rather than Sola Scriptura. That said, I do believe there are legitimate, biblically based objections that can be raised regarding certain Catholic doctrines, both from what is in Scripture and from what is absent from it.

 

[Jermayn]

God does love variety. He did not say that only one kind of person can be a Christian. He says they come from every nation, tribe and tongue

The problem comes when the interpretations are contradictory or exclusionary. God is not a man that He should lie, but people do.
The Israelites were God’s chosen people. They relied on the scriptures and relied on sola scriptura so much that they lost sight of what they meant. It got so bad that God Himself had to come to earth to offer a New Covenant to set them straight
Jesus built His Church. It was not invented by men. He gave His authority to the Apostles primarily to Peter to whom He gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
The Church preached the Gospel and shared the grace of God with the world. We have a record of their teaching that is apart from the Bible as a matter of historical record
The original Church had seven sacraments which communicated God’s grace. Baptism, penance, Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony and anointing of the sick.
All are in the Bible and all are backed up by scripture yet practically all are denied by the Protestant brethren.
They say baptism is not necessary for salvation, it is an optional ritual of no real effect.
They say penance is not necessary, good works don’t do anything either. They say the Eucharist is just a symbol of no real substance. Confirmation is changed from a solemn sacrament to saying I love my yellow Honda 20 times fast and claim to have received the Holy Spirit. They deny the priesthood or the necessity of apostolic succession itself. Matrimony is denied and the significance of the two becoming one flesh is destroyed by contraception and abortion, it becomes just a contract between a man and woman to start having intercourse without regard to its purpose. The anointing of the sick is severely diminished as the priesthood and the Eucharist necessary for the sacrament are denied.

What happened? Or as Paul would say Who has bewitched you? Apostle means one who is sent, an ambassador given the authority to speak for God and share His grace, yet all of their teaching is denied and abandoned.
I don’t think this is what God has in mind with a variety of sola scriptura. Rivers of living water are thrown away for broken cisterns that can hold no water.
Not only has apostolic teaching been abandoned for the sake of variety, but those seeking the truth are told that they are following a pagan system, the harlot of Babylon or are taking the mark of the beast

Read Iraneus, demonstration of the Apostolic teaching, then look what is being taught by those that claim sola scriptura. See any difference?

The grace of God flows through the sacraments by the Holy Spirit, and everything the Bible says is true. What good does it do to deny it?

I appreciate the detailed response and the time you took to share these Catholic views on the Protestant Church. As I’ve said in other posts, I’m no expert on the Catechism or Catholic doctrine, so I can only speak from my humble Baptist perspective and the convictions I’ve arrived at through Scripture.

The first thing I’d like to point out is that during Jesus’ time, the Israelites largely relied on the Pharisees, and ultimately the High Priest, as their authority in matters of faith. If there was disagreement, what the High Priest said was considered final. In that sense, this structure seems more reflective of the Catholic magisterial framework than of the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

Regarding extra-biblical sources and historical writings, I absolutely respect early Christian authors and the historical record. I don’t deny their value, but I also don’t view them as infallible. As a Protestant, I believe that any source outside of Scripture, whether it’s a church father, a council, or even a pope, must be tested against Scripture. If a contradiction arises, Scripture has the final word.

As for the sacraments, we also hold many of these practices in high regard, though they may look different in form and purpose. The key distinction, at least in my tradition, is that we view them as expressions of our salvation, not the means by which we receive it. In other words, we don’t dismiss baptism, marriage, or communion, we just believe they are the fruit of a saving relationship with Christ, not the source of saving grace.

I say this not to argue, but to clarify where we’re coming from. I appreciate your passion for what you believe, and I hope you can see that Protestants aren’t trying to “throw away” what’s sacred, we’re simply trying to uphold what we believe is the clearest expression of God’s truth through His Word.

 

[David Lamb]

I appreciate the detailed response and the time you took to share these Catholic views on the Protestant Church. As I’ve said in other posts, I’m no expert on the Catechism or Catholic doctrine, so I can only speak from my humble Baptist perspective and the convictions I’ve arrived at through Scripture.

The first thing I’d like to point out is that during Jesus’ time, the Israelites largely relied on the Pharisees, and ultimately the High Priest, as their authority in matters of faith. If there was disagreement, what the High Priest said was considered final. In that sense, this structure seems more reflective of the Catholic magisterial framework than of the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

Regarding extra-biblical sources and historical writings, I absolutely respect early Christian authors and the historical record. I don’t deny their value, but I also don’t view them as infallible. As a Protestant, I believe that any source outside of Scripture, whether it’s a church father, a council, or even a pope, must be tested against Scripture. If a contradiction arises, Scripture has the final word.

As for the sacraments, we also hold many of these practices in high regard, though they may look different in form and purpose. The key distinction, at least in my tradition, is that we view them as expressions of our salvation, not the means by which we receive it. In other words, we don’t dismiss baptism, marriage, or communion, we just believe they are the fruit of a saving relationship with Christ, not the source of saving grace.

I say this not to argue, but to clarify where we’re coming from. I appreciate your passion for what you believe, and I hope you can see that Protestants aren’t trying to “throw away” what’s sacred, we’re simply trying to uphold what we believe is the clearest expression of God’s truth through His Word.

What a beautifully-worded post! Many of us could learn a lot from the way you write so winsomely. I happen to agree with what you have written, but I am sure that even those who don't will recognise your polite, non-judgmental style. Thank you!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The first thing I’d like to point out is that during Jesus’ time, the Israelites largely relied on the Pharisees, and ultimately the High Priest, as their authority in matters of faith. If there was disagreement, what the High Priest said was considered final. In that sense, this structure seems more reflective of the Catholic magisterial framework than of the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

Yes, but what did these priests and Pharisees do to our Lord and Savior?


Mat 20:18 “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death,

Mat 26:14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests

Mat 26:59 Now the chief priests, the elders, and all the council sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death,

Mat 27:1 When morning came, all the chief priests and elders of the people plotted against Jesus to put Him to death.

Jesus condemned them for teaching people their own rules and traditions over keeping the commandments of God, He went on to say they were the spiritual blind leading them and the people who followed them into a ditch

Mat 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; Exo 20:12 and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

Thankfully Jesus is our High Priest and we no longer need a mediator, because we can go directly to Jesus, only He can cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness. So when you say" it seems more reflective of the Catholic magisterial framework" it doesn't seem as a good thing according to the testimony of Jesus.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It seems that people are thinking I said Christ condemns scripture. That is not true. I said Christ taught against SOLA scriptura.
The Pharisees had the scriptures and Christ confirmed that and even said they sit in Moses’ seat, so He did not say that the Scriptures were false
It is the fact that the Scriptures speak of Christ and He was standing right in front of them, but they did not believe. They held onto their own view or what the scriptures said instead of Him of whom the scriptures spoke. They refused to believe that God was standing right in front of them and could be anything other than they imagined Him to be.

That is what SOLA scriptura does. It limits God to the understanding of the reader which reverses the Gospel. Instead of following Jesus denying ourselves and taking up our cross, sola scriptura commands God to be subject to us and follow us rather than we follow Him

The apostolic teaching is self denial, complete surrender to Our Lord in total submission. As Paul says, I am determined to know nothing among you except Christ and Him crucified
Our eyes are on Jesus and not ourselves because we have died to our old self and have risen with Him.
If we know who Jesus is, then we no longer need the Ten Commandments, because if we are following Jesus, we automatically keep the commandments. As the scriptures says we cannot sin because His seed remaineth in us

Jesus is also very concerned about ordination. Jesus said if I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. He also says, I receive not glory form men. This goes against a democratic run Church, as democracy would make God subject to the opinions of men. No

Christ built a Church, and it started 2000 years ago. It stayed in existence by passing apostolic authority by the laying on of hands, and all authority is vested in the Vicar of Christ, our Holy Father, the Pope.

Those that have received ordination by Apostolic succession are God’s anointed, as they have received the anointing from a previously anointed. Sola Scripturists that claim to speak for God have assumed this authority for themselves. They come in their own name rather than receive ordination. That is something even Jesus Himself said He would not do

You are free to believe whomever you want, but you have to know that when you speak from your own understanding or believe another from a group started by a man or woman, you are placing your faith in human and not God.
Paul spoke of this when he rebuked them that said I am of Paul, I am of Apollo, we don’t follow men

God has already built His Church. Paul even warns, if any of you think he is wise in the way of the world, become a fool for Christ. How can we think we are so wise to build a Church to rival God’s own already built?

All of the rival Churches seem full of denial. Just as Paul says, they have a form of godliness but deny its power

They deny the need for good works and mock those that do them
They deny the need for penance which is a denial of mourning which is one of the beatitudes.
They deny the justice of God by denying hell, even though denial of an eternal God would require an eternal punishment.
Some deny free will, which is a denial of love
Some deny the beauty of God’s law and tell you His commandments are too burdensome so don’t even try to follow them
Some even say that God is an idiot in that He does not know what He is doing. They say He makes mistakes and has to erase them by annihilating souls, even though He is not a man that He should lie and He said the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
Others deny His power in saying that God did not build a Church or that He did it wrong and it was as overrun by apostasy even though Jesus said that would never happen

No no I am done with the deniers. I will follow Christ and His Church, I will deny myself and choose to live for the one that Loved me and gave Himself for me

The Spirit and the Bride say come drink of the waters of life freely, or you can listen to yourselves and other men We do have a free choice

The original Church was the Orthodox church, Catholic church was a spit off of Orthodox not the original so those of us who do not believe in the popes authority are not part of the Church?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Catholics are required as a matter of faith to accept the teaching of the ordinary magisterium of the Church, over which the Pope rules infallibly

That does not mean that every word that comes form his mouth is from God, but he is the guardian of the faith, and there is no appeal of a final ruling by the Pope.

Oh there are many so called “cafeteria Catholics” that pick and choose what they want to believe, but they are in error. Some even want to call the Pope a heretic and claim to speak above him. That is also error.
Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven. Keys is plural. One is teaching authority and the other is political authority. To rebel against teaching authority is heresy, and to rebel against political authority is schism. Both are equally evil and they do injury to the body of Christ.
Both are sins, yet Christ can forgive if we repent. Judas rebelled against Christs teaching authority in that he scoffed at the bread of life discourse and betrayed Our Lord. He did not repent and is lost the son of perdition. Peter betrayed the political authority of Christ when Jesus told him of suffering. “Lord, pray that this never happen to you” Jesus said get behind me Satan. Peter repented, Christ forgave him and made him the first Pope. We note that the Apostles did not elect him but Jesus Himself restored him, countering his three denials, Simon son of Jonah lovest thou me? Feed my lambs.

If these sins are done in ignorance, they can be forgiven. The Catholic Church does not judge you, nor do I judge you, but as Jesus told the Pharisees Moses would be their judge, Paul will be your judge
Almost all Protestant denominations have something evil to say about the Catholic Church, from we are ignorant and don’t know the Bible or the Gospel to we are evil pagans that carry the mark of the beast , yet no one can show a scripture that contradicts the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Causes one to wonder

What do you do when you have a pope that is not even a Christian, because not all popes were Christian, they were all Catholic but being Catholic does not make one Christian ?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

What do you do when you have a pope that is not even a Christian, because not all popes were Christian, they were all Catholic but being Catholic does not make one Christian ?

It’s hard to answer loaded questions, as they are of the same kind the scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus. The only answer is what Our Lord has said. Give to God what is God’s.
God spoke to Peter, you are a rock and in this rock I will build my Church. He also promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
Those are the words of God.
It is your words that the Orthodox is the original church, and it requires your convincing of others to believe it to make it so. God does not require human faith to exist, He just is. That is also His name, I am who am.
I can think of plenty of reasons for not liking the Catholic Church and the wanting something different, but then that would be my will and not God’s.
It is impossible for another Church to be built from the efforts of men, as the word for God says unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.
The Catholic Church rests completely in the will of God and on His promises. The sacraments get their power Ex Opere Operato, by the work performed, not by the righteousness of the performer
Catholics honor the office of the Papacy, not the man who occupies it. The Papacy is guarded by the full honor of the Holy Spirit, who is not a man that He should lie. The office is not dependent on the actions of any man. God guards His own Church.
Yes the word of God says the enemy sows tares among the wheat, yet our Lord tells us to let them both grow until the harvest. There is no condition whereby we abandon God’s wheat field and seek another, as faith is in God alone and not men