Jesus Held to Sola Scriptura

[Neogaia777]

So how did the Pharisees err in what they preached?

By not practicing what they preached and by not getting the point in preaching it, which was not in obeying it perfectly, but was to point to a new and better covenant centered around Christ their Messiah...

And how, by endorsing what Moses stated did they weigh the people down and crush them with what they placed on their shoulders?

By preaching something (law, God's covenant) in a way that they or anyone could possibly keep them, or had no chance of success in the way they were teaching it anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

So how did the Pharisees err in what they preached?

In that they preached following the letter of the Law and neglected the Spirit which is Faith, Love and Mercy.

And how, by endorsing what Moses stated did they weigh the people down and crush them with what they placed on their shoulders?

Because they neglected to preach that the practice of the Law is evidence of faith in the promised salvation. They preached morality as a burden and did not shed the light of the Loving and merciful Husband that the nation was betrothed to, upon the people.

 

[Anguspure]

Sure let's quote more. I will use the KJV as you used that translation also:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin , for his seed remainder in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God
1john3:9

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
1john1:8

According to what is literally stated in the two verses. Which one is correct?

Paul explains this one:
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7)
...which is a miserable way to live and so we may find the solution in the following part of the letter...
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful natured a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.(Romans 7 - 8)

 

[stuart lawrence]

In that they preached following the letter of the Law and neglected the Spirit which is Faith, Love and Mercy.

Because they neglected to preach that the practice of the Law is evidence of faith in the promised salvation. They preached morality as a burden and did not shed the light of the Loving and merciful Husband that the nation was betrothed to, upon the people.

Absolutely. They preached the letter of what was written down. The letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law

 

[stuart lawrence]

Paul explains this one:
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7)
...which is a miserable way to live and so we may find the solution in the following part of the letter...
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful natured a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.(Romans 7 - 8)

Which proves you cannot just read a literal verse of scripture and apply it. You must read the Bible as a cohesive whole

A Jewish Christian said:
By reading literal verses of the Quran you can understand the message. The bible was not meant to be understood that way

 

[Neogaia777]

In that they preached following the letter of the Law and neglected the Spirit which is Faith, Love and Mercy.

Because they neglected to preach that the practice of the Law is evidence of faith in the promised salvation. They preached morality as a burden and did not shed the light of the Loving and merciful Husband that the nation was betrothed to, upon the people.

They preached morality or obedience as a burden, and not as a glorious reward for well doing...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

Which proves you cannot just read a literal verse of scripture and apply it. You must read the Bible as a cohesive whole

A Jewish Christian said:
By reading literal verses of the Quran you can understand the message. The bible was not meant to be understood that way

Also remembering that reading the scripture is a spiritual excersise, that reading without hearing the Spirit of God will often lead to misinterpretation and error.

To expect a person to read the Bible (in tbe flesh) as a cohesive whole, with a full understanding of the subleties and undertones is also to greater burden to place on most. So it is the Spirit of Christ that leads us into all truth for He himself is the Truth.

 

[chilehed]

Jesus held to the idea that scripture, not church office-holder, is the ultimate authority for the believer...

Total nonsense.

 

[rjs330]

So...... Should we only listen to our blessed Lord, the second person of the one God, when He is quoting from scripture? What was the point of His incarnation? It is my understanding that firstly the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. We are told in the book of John that Jesus said and did so many things that were it all written down, the whole world couldn't contain all the books. There are some important and deep conversations that should take place between the Church and the protestant reformers, but sola scripture, I'm afraid isn't one of them really. Just a cursory study of the origin and history of the New Testament, as well as the fact that it doesn't even hold up to the first glaring test. That the scriptures don't teach sola scriptura, but rather that Jesus is Lord, should disabuse anyone that sola scriptura is a valid dogmatic principal. I am truly baffled that there are still any protestants who still hold to this odd proposition. I truly mean no disrespect, but the impossibility of at least this particular sola started me on my reluctant, but ultimately rewarding journey to Rome.

Blessings,
Steve

You realize Rome claims to get it's authority from scripture right? Or uses scripture to SUPPORT their claim of authority.

 

[The Times]

You realize Rome claims to get it's authority from scripture right? Or uses scripture to SUPPORT their claim of authority.

That is the point made for all denominations. They legitimize their statement of beliefs through scripture. Yet when confronted with the truth, that scripture is the bench mark test, many proceed to deny the ultimate authority of scripture.

Could it be a form of plagiarism at play?

Possibly!

Because if a statement of belief is derived from Sola Scripture, yet the one using it does not acknowledge it as the primary source, then we note that the intellectual property of the authors of scripture are being used in a way as to imply the religious institution is the author in place of the original authors and that in my books is plagiarism.

 

[The Times]

So my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ in order that you might belong to another to him that was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God.
For when we were controlled by the sinfull nature, the sinfull passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death.
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code
Rom7:4-6

If one sees sin and immorality, one must reject it by the letter of the Law, that is Sola Scripture. If one does not righteously judge the world by Sola Scripture, then that individual has fallen away from the faith once given to the saints.

14But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, for you know you can trust those who taught you.15You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)

 

[stuart lawrence]

If one sees sin and immorality, one must reject it by the letter of the Law, that is Sola Scripture. If one does not righteously judge the world by Sola Scripture, then that individual has fallen away from the faith once given to the saints.

14But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, for you know you can trust those who taught you.15You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)

The letter( of the law) kills
2cor3:6

I thought you may have given my post a hearty Amen
I simply quoted what is written

 

[stuart lawrence]

If one sees sin and immorality, one must reject it by the letter of the Law, that is Sola Scripture. If one does not righteously judge the world by Sola Scripture, then that individual has fallen away from the faith once given to the saints.

14But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, for you know you can trust those who taught you.15You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)

So sola scripture incorporates obeying the letter of the law.
I mean this most sincerely, thank you for stating that. That has always been my experience of those who claim, in effect they follow sola scripture
People who preach/ demand the letter of the law be obeyed cannot and do not practice what they preach.
Your endorsement of what I believe concerning what sola scripture normally entails is the reason I got involved in this thread

 

[The Times]

The letter( of the law) kills
2cor3:6

I thought you may have given my post a hearty Amen
I simply quoted what is written

In context! What does it imply?

Questions?Answers?

The Audience is the Jews who continued in the old covenant WAYS.

The context is the WAY, that is application of faith, not that it does away with the laws of God, rather it enhances them through sanctified vessels.

This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts.
This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.
the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth.

Paul is highlighting that the Jews continue to have the wrong application of the laws being applied, through an in your face legalist letters of dos and do nots.

In fact, Paul in the following chapter refers to the proper application of the laws as follows.....

1Therefore, since God in his mercy has given us this new way,a we never give up. 2We reject all shameful deeds and underhanded methods. We don’t try to trick anyone or distort the word of God. We tell the truth before God, and all who are honest know this.

So Paul is instructing a new way to apply the laws of God to righteously judge and to reject the sins of the world, through the sanctified vessels of God who are the walking law, instead of veiled letters of threat to do this or else.

Paul emphasises this point as follows....

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Then Paul affirms the Sola Scripture right here and then.

Amen!

 

[stuart lawrence]

In context! What does it imply?

Questions?Answers?

The Audience is the Jews who continued in the old covenant WAYS.

The context is the WAY, that is application of faith, not that it does away with the laws of God, rather it enhances them through sanctified vessels.

This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts.
This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.
the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth.

Paul is highlighting that the Jews continue to have the wrong application of the laws being applied, through an in your face legalist letters of dos and do nots.

In fact, Paul in the following chapter refers to the proper application of the laws as follows.....

1Therefore, since God in his mercy has given us this new way,a we never give up. 2We reject all shameful deeds and underhanded methods. We don’t try to trick anyone or distort the word of God. We tell the truth before God, and all who are honest know this.

So Paul is instructing a new way to apply the laws of God to righteously judge and to reject the sins of the world, through the sanctified vessels of God who are the walking law, instead of veiled letters of threat to do this or else.

Paul emphasises this point as follows....

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Then Paul affirms the Sola Scripture right here and then.

Amen!

So if you have any impure thoughts you are breaking the letter of the TC. Will you therefore be declared unrighteous before God?
Same goes for getting angry with your brother, looking at a woman with lust in your eye, failing to love all those you come into contact with including your enemies

 

[The Times]

So sola scripture incorporates obeying the letter of the law.
I mean this most sincerely, thank you for stating that. That has always been my experience of those who claim, in effect they follow sola scripture
People who preach/ demand the letter of the law be obeyed cannot and do not practice what they preach.
Your endorsement of what I believe concerning what sola scripture normally entails is the reason I got involved in this thread

The law is not abolished, sin must be rejected. Three application of the law has changed, where Paul calls it the new way.

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Paul affirms Sola Scripture right they're and then. We are the living letters of the law, the walking law. The letters of the law of Moses no longer deter people from refraining from sinning, rather it is the dynamic application of the Law through the sanctified vessels that evangelises the world from sinners to saints.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The law is not abolished, sin must be rejected. Three application of the law has changed, where Paul calls it the new way.

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Paul affirms Sola Scripture right they're and then. We are the living letters of the law, the walking law. The letters of the law of Moses no longer deter people from refraining from sinning, rather it is the dynamic application of the Law through the sanctified vessels that evangelises the world from sinners to saints.

Who said the law was abolished?
What does Paul mean when he says the Christian must die to the law?

 

[The Times]

So if you have any impure thoughts you are breaking the letter of the TC. Will you therefore be declared unrighteous before God?
Same goes for getting angry with your brother, looking at a woman with lust in your eye, failing to love all those you come into contact with including your enemies

They have to be still applied in the heart. The static dead letters of Moses have no application anymore, rather as Paul states the new way to apply them is through the sanctified vessels of Christ.

1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you?2You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

1Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3

If a new testament person does not apply the laws in their heart and conscious, then they are not Christ's sheep.

 

[stuart lawrence]

They have to be still applied in the heart. The static dead letters of Moses have no application anymore, rather as Paul states the new way to apply them is through the sanctified vessels of Christ.

1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you?2You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

1Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3

If a new testament person does not apply the laws in their heart and conscious, then they are not Christ's sheep.

You didn't answer my question

 

[The Times]

Who said the law was abolished?
What does Paul mean when he says the Christian must die to the law?

It means to die for the testimoney of Jesus and where do you find the biographical account of Jesus.

Who said all scripture testifies of me?

Sola Scripture is the Law and the Prophets.