America absolutely loves a war...... but rarely does it bring peace

[Dave RP]

With tensions rising in Korea and two unstable leaders facing off, the concern must be that the US is the most belligerent nation on earth, has been involved in more wars than any other country, and frequently the outcome is appalling for the countries America was supposed to be helping.

Since WW2 the US has had wars in Lebanon (twice), Cuba, Congo, Vietnam, Thailand, Zaire, Grenada, Libya (twice), Panama, Iraq (twice), Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo and has continuing operations in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Libya is a total mess with internal factions fighting each other, Iraq has been all but destroyed thanks to the incompetence of the US and its allies, Afghanistan barely functions as a state, Somalia is disintegrating......

So, if you were the North Korea leader, you saw what the US and its allies had done to other countries where (arguably illegal) regime change was on the cards, you saw the might of the US army just over your border and you knew as a poor country with a population of 25 million you could not hold back a conventional assault, what would you do?

The North Koreans know that the only way to truly protect themselves is to have weapons that match the US, and show they might use them. Whilst we might not like that fact, unless and until there is a long term solution to Korea, which involves China and Russia, the US in this instance cannot simply go blundering in and ensure the deaths of millions.

It's time to step back from the brink and find a different way but does Trump have the brain to do so?

 

[Ana the Ist]

With tensions rising in Korea and two unstable leaders facing off, the concern must be that the US is the most belligerent nation on earth, has been involved in more wars than any other country, and frequently the outcome is appalling for the countries America was supposed to be helping.

Since WW2 the US has had wars in Lebanon (twice), Cuba, Congo, Vietnam, Thailand, Zaire, Grenada, Libya (twice), Panama, Iraq (twice), Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo and has continuing operations in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Sad isn't it? This is what happens when the only thing a nation really manufactures anymore are weapons and ammunition.

Libya is a total mess with internal factions fighting each other, Iraq has been all but destroyed thanks to the incompetence of the US and its allies, Afghanistan barely functions as a state, Somalia is disintegrating......

I'm inclined to think that Afghanistan will be fine. That's not exactly a nation that's had difficulty weathering conflict in the past.

As for the rest of it...aside from a few nations...it's almost as if we prefer instability in the middle east, right? I wonder what they have over there that we'd consider valuable enough to keep them in chaos so that we can take advantage?....hmmmmm....

So, if you were the North Korea leader, you saw what the US and its allies had done to other countries where (arguably illegal) regime change was on the cards, you saw the might of the US army just over your border and you knew as a poor country with a population of 25 million you could not hold back a conventional assault, what would you do?

You're asking me as the hypothetical "North Korean leader" what I'd do if I felt my nation was threatened by the U.S.??

Pretty simple really...I'd ask the Chinese how they'd like me to handle it. After all, they're paying all of my bills.

The North Koreans know

The north koreans know squat....their leader however was given an expensive western education in Switzerland if I'm not mistaken.

that the only way to truly protect themselves is to have weapons that match the US, and show they might use them. Whilst we might not like that fact, unless and until there is a long term solution to Korea, which involves China and Russia, the US in this instance cannot simply go blundering in and ensure the deaths of millions.

Perhaps we could broker a deal with China wherein we officially "surrender" to the North, Kim Jong Silliest can pretend to have a victory...after which he pretends to "install" a chairman who will oversee the reunification of Korea (actually a south korean president or whatever they have) and the rest of the world pardons Kim for his crimes against humanity and we bribe him with, I dunno, 100 billion dollars or whatever we can get from passing around the plate to all the sane nations, and tell him he's welcome to live freely wherever he'd like (I can't imagine even he really wants to live in North Korea anymore).

The downside? One of the craziest and most horrible dictators in history gets off scott free....

The upside? Well China will get to sell all the cheap products it wants to what will essentially become a larger south korean market...we could throw in some trade deals and incentives for Russia...we can pull out of south korea entirely, as long as peace is ensured.

Most importantly though, the 25 million North Korean prisoners of an extremely brutal and oppressive dictatorship will at last have a chance at a better life for themselves and their children. That's worth letting one lunatic go in my opinion.

It's time to step back from the brink and find a different way but does Trump have the brain to do so?

Perhaps we can convince him it will be prime golf course real estate in 10 years.

 

[Mare Liberum]

I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one. - TEDDY ROOSEVELT

Makes no difference who is in power - Democrat or Republican - the police state needs war, and they always get their wars. The USG feeds on fake peril and the ensuing chaos, as your Victoria had in the 19th Century. (WW2 wasn't the 'good war,' either)

But Americans don't care, they just want moar movies, free stuff, and cheese burgers. Suggest closing our bases and withdrawing the Reagan Christ fleet, and they'll suffer strokes. Americans aren't ready for the humanitarian crisis war with N Korea will create; neither are China and S Korea. These are insane times, where so-called Christians hail murderers as heroes, and real Christian heroes die in ignominy.

 

[Nithavela]

The USA sometimes reminds me of an aging diva that had a few hits, but those are long past, and now they try to relive past glories, no matter the cost to the surrounding or dignity.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The USA sometimes reminds me of an aging diva that had a few hits, but those are long past, and now they try to relive past glories, no matter the cost to the surrounding or dignity.

Frankly, I think we make the same mistakes as the colonial empires of the 1500-1600s made...we insist that we're powerful enough to project our power overseas for extended periods of time and we can't.

It wasn't projection of power during WW2 that made the U.S. a "superpower"...it was the isolationist policies that preceded it for decades.

 

[Nithavela]

Frankly, I think we make the same mistakes as the colonial empires of the 1500-1600s made...we insist that we're powerful enough to project our power overseas for extended periods of time and we can't.

It wasn't projection of power during WW2 that made the U.S. a "superpower"...it was the isolationist policies that preceded it for decades.

On the other hand, pure isolationalism brings its own problems, as history shows with Chy-na.

 

[football5680]

We shouldn't get involved with them. We should impose the harshest sanctions we can and then sit back and ignore them. If they want to be reasonable then we can talk but they have had 70 years to change but still haven't.

 

[Wolseley]

Any Briton or German who wants to criticize the United States for being belligerent and imperialistic needs to go back and take a long, hard look at the British Empire and the Third Reich.

I don't think that the United States at its worst ever perpetrated anything on the scale of the British in India or Ireland, the Belgians in Africa, the Germans in Eastern Europe, or the Spanish in South and Central America.

Yeah, okay, we dropped two atomic bombs on the Japanese, and our treatment of the Native Americans and the Filipinos wasn't so good. Nobody disputes that. But it still doesn't equal the horrors perpetrated by the European colonial powers in the 19th and 20th centuries, or the European Fascist powers in the 1920s to the 1940s.

Maybe Britain and Germany might want to view the United States a bit more charitably: at the rate they're going, they're both going to need us to come over again and rescue them from the Islamic religious police states they're rapidly turning themselves into.

 

[Nithavela]

Any Briton or German who wants to criticize the United States for being belligerent and imperialistic needs to go back and take a long, hard look at the British Empire and the Third Reich.

I don't think that the United States at its worst ever perpetrated anything on the scale of the British in India or Ireland, the Belgians in Africa, the Germans in Eastern Europe, or the Spanish in South and Central America.

Yeah, okay, we dropped two atomic bombs on the Japanese, and our treatment of the Native Americans and the Filipinos wasn't so good. Nobody disputes that. But it still doesn't equal the horrors perpetrated by the European colonial powers in the 19th and 20th centuries, or the European Fascist powers in the 1920s to the 1940s.

Maybe Britain and Germany might want to view the United States a bit more charitably: at the rate they're going, they're both going to need us to come over again and rescue them from the Islamic religious police states they're rapidly turning themselves into.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing the things that happen today/in this decade and not 70 years ago.

But yeah, mea culpa, mea culpa, my greatgrandfather possibly killed some jews. Let me get out my whip.

 

[Mare Liberum]

Frankly, I think we make the same mistakes as the colonial empires of the 1500-1600s made...we insist that we're powerful enough to project our power overseas for extended periods of time and we can't.

It wasn't projection of power during WW2 that made the U.S. a "superpower"...it was the isolationist policies that preceded it for decades.

I mostly agree, but just to clarify, we weren't isolationist prior to the populist dictator FDR, we were non-interventionist. We remained free of the League of Nations, but Coolidge and our Senate gave full support to the Hague. We passed the Kellogg-Briand Pact, forbidding foreign war entanglements, and we eased Wilson's debt burden on past allies and enemies.

After one-half century of generalissimos, Americans were through with endless wars.

Unfortunately, rampant speculation and our Federal Reserve Bank exasperated the financial crisis of '29, stoking mass paranoia and populism in America and around the world. Ironically, it was FDR who campaigned early on as the isolationist, who promised to MAGA with his "New Deal." FDR, Reagan, and Trump would have everything to love about each other. A non-interventionist is so militarily, but will fight if invaded, whereas an isolationist is often cynical of peace - they have no problems fighting proxy wars, if they keep their hands clean.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Perhaps we could broker a deal with China wherein we officially "surrender" to the North, Kim Jong Silliest can pretend to have a victory...

Sorry is impossible. Donald Trump is much more silly so would demand HE get pretend victory.

In battle of wits think Kim Jong Un wins very easy, so maybe offer KJU something if he agree to give Trump pretend victory?

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Yeah, okay, we dropped two atomic bombs on the Japanese, and our treatment of the Native Americans and the Filipinos wasn't so good. Nobody disputes that. But it still doesn't equal the horrors perpetrated by the European colonial powers in the 19th and 20th centuries, or the European Fascist powers in the 1920s to the 1940s.

Not so sure. Quote from Andrew Jackson

By persuasion and force they have been made to retire from river to river and from mountain to mountain, until some of the tribes have become extinct and others have left but remnants to preserve for a while their once terrible names. Surrounded by the whites with their arts of civilization, which by destroying the resources of the savage doom him to weakness and decay

 

[Ana the Ist]

On the other hand, pure isolationalism brings its own problems, as history shows with Chy-na.

China had a long time to see what was coming...

 

[Non sequitur]

I only have one thing to add...





USA! USA! USA!

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Not so sure. Quote from Andrew Jackson

By persuasion and force they have been made to retire from river to river and from mountain to mountain, until some of the tribes have become extinct and others have left but remnants to preserve for a while their once terrible names. Surrounded by the whites with their arts of civilization, which by destroying the resources of the savage doom him to weakness and decay

Thank you for your post, Yonny. Since you quoted the notorious Indian Killer Andrew Jackson, I thought you might like to read the following articles about what other U.S. presidents had to say about Native Americans too. I also decided to include one more article about the attempted ethnic cleansing efforts of the U.S. government to either subjugate or eliminate Native Americans.

I thought I would also post an article for you about the Eight Stages of Genocide, for your educational benefit. If you know American history of how Native Americans have been treated, you will see the correlation between these eight stages and what happened to them in this country. So, here are the articles I thought you might like to read and the first article is about Andrew Jackson.

Indian-Killer Andrew Jackson Deserves Top Spot on List of Worst US Presidents

US Presidents in Their Own Words Concerning American Indians

Nice Day for a Genocide: Shocking Quotes on Indians By US Leaders, Pt 1

Nice Day for a Genocide: Shocking Quotes on Indians by U.S. Leaders, Pt. 2

Here is the article of the Eight Stages of Native American Genocide.

The 8 stages of Native American Genocide

And here is the article on the Eight Stages of Genocide from Genocide Watch.

The 8 Stages of Genocide

 

[Shiloh Raven]

The USA sometimes reminds me of an aging diva that had a few hits, but those are long past, and now they try to relive past glories, no matter the cost to the surrounding or dignity.

Have you seen this article yet? If not, you should read it. It lists every war America has ever been in since its inception, and believe me, it is a very extensive list. This article is over two years old, so we will need to add those two years to the overall total. Apparently, America really does love war.

America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776

Here's a short excerpt from the article.

Indeed, most of the military operations launched since World War II have been launched by the U.S.

And American military spending dwarfs the rest of the world put together.

No wonder polls show that the world believes America is the number 1 threat to peace.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Thank you for your post, Yonny. Since you quoted the notorious Indian Killer Andrew Jackson, I thought you might like to read the following articles about what other U.S. presidents had to say about Native Americans too. I also decided to include one more article about the attempted ethnic cleansing efforts of the U.S. government to either subjugate or eliminate Native Americans.

I thought I would also post an article for you about the Eight Stages of Genocide, for your educational benefit. If you know American history of how Native Americans have been treated, you will see the correlation between these eight stages and what happened to them in this country. So, here are the articles I thought you might like to read and the first article is about Andrew Jackson.

Indian-Killer Andrew Jackson Deserves Top Spot on List of Worst US Presidents

US Presidents in Their Own Words Concerning American Indians

Nice Day for a Genocide: Shocking Quotes on Indians By US Leaders, Pt 1

Nice Day for a Genocide: Shocking Quotes on Indians by U.S. Leaders, Pt. 2

Here is the article of the Eight Stages of Native American Genocide.

The 8 stages of Native American Genocide

And here is the article on the Eight Stages of Genocide from Genocide Watch.

The 8 Stages of Genocide

Thank you. I have read about terrible treatment but never realize how bad. Is very good to learn facts.

I did some of above reading and was very interesting. Will finish when have time. Looks like we open manufacturing plant in Vancouver now so I have planned to be very busy.

 

[rjs330]

America hasn't fought a real war since WW2. We've lost our will and guts. It started in Korea and was compounded in Vietnam.

Before you all go crazy. I say we should stay out of world affairs. Only get involved if asked by a nation or nations to get involved. Or if we are attacked. Then we need to make it clear that the gloves are off and there will be no mercy until the enemy surrenders unconditionally. And no country is safe if they let the enemy retreat into their territories. They are either with us or against us. If the world does not want that then don't ask for our help. We are not in it for nation building. We are in for one thing and one thing only. Total and complete victory.

Otherwise we are out of the war business. If we don't commit to that then we should stay out of war even if we are attacked.

 

[Wolseley]

Indeed, most of the military operations launched since World War II have been launched by the U.S.

Who launched most of them before World War II?

And American military spending dwarfs the rest of the world put together.

Whose military budget dwarfed the rest of the world before World War II?

No wonder polls show that the world believes America is the number 1 threat to peace.

Leaving aside for the moment the fact that polls don't mean squat, tell me: which country has provided more disaster relief, foreign aid, food donations, medical aid, improved agricultural techniques, clean water wells, and rebuffed more tyrannical powers bent on conquering other nations, during the last, say, 100 years or so? (I'll give you a small hint: it ain't Russia, China, Japan, Spain, Italy, France, Sweden, Germany, or even Britain.)

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Have you seen this article yet? If not, you should read it. It lists every war America has ever been in since its inception, and believe me, it is a very extensive list. This article is over two years old, so we will need to add those two years to the overall total. Apparently, America really does love war.

America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776

Here's a short excerpt from the article.

Indeed, most of the military operations launched since World War II have been launched by the U.S.

And American military spending dwarfs the rest of the world put together.

No wonder polls show that the world believes America is the number 1 threat to peace.

A friend of mine just brought this particular site on military spending to my attention, so I thought I would share a link and one of the charts from the site in continuation of my previous post.

The site is: Military Spending

And here is one of the charts from the site. Notice which country spends the most on its military.