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[POLL] Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

Should Christians Rest and Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 61.4%
  • No

    Votes: 17 38.6%

  • Total voters
    44

CDF47

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37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
So, what was Jesus telling them? It is all about love. Love is the driving theme in the New Testament. We know we are doing God's will if we believe in Jesus and love, love our fellow man as Jesus loves us. If we were supposed to observe ritual days wouldn't someone come up to the plate and tell us?

Yes, that is what He is stating but He also says all the Law and prophets hang on these two commandments. Love is also about following Commandments like not stealing, murdering, using the Lord's name in vain,... The Sabbath day is part of the Law. That is a day the Lord sanctified (made holy) from the beginning of creation.
 
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bugkiller

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Yes, that is what He is stating but He also says all the Law and prophets hang on these two commandments. Love is also about following Commandments like not stealing, murdering, using the Lord's name in vain,... The Sabbath day is part of the Law. That is a day the Lord sanctified (made holy) from the beginning of creation.
No sir, the sabbath is not from the beginning of creation. The word sabbath is not in Genesis anywhere.
 
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CDF47

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No sir, the sabbath is not from the beginning of creation. The word sabbath is not in Genesis anywhere.

The 7th day the Lord rested in Genesis and then sanctified that day for the children of Israel to rest and keep holy.
 
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bugkiller

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Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

Mishnah, Avodah Zarah 1:1: ON THE THREE DAYS PRECEDING THE FESTIVITIES OF IDOLATERS, IT IS FORBIDDEN TO TRANSACT BUSINESS WITH THEM, TO LEND ARTICLES TO THEM OR BORROW ANY FROM THEM, TO ADVANCE, OR RECEIVE ANY MONEY FROM THEM, TO REPAY A DEBT, OR RECEIVE REPAYMENT FROM THEM. R. JUDAH SAYS: WE SHOULD RECEIVE REPAYMENT FROM THEM, AS THIS CAN ONLY DEPRESS THEM; BUT THEY [THE RABBIS] SAID TO HIM: EVEN THOUGH IT IS DEPRESSING AT THE TIME, THEY ARE GLAD OF IT SUBSEQUENTLY.
What does this have to do with the Bible passage you quoted?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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I might be too picky in where I am looking because I am looking for a church with services on Saturday that is protestant or non-denominational that is not SDA. I found a Messianic Jewish church that meets that criteria but I don't agree with their doctrine. I am just real specific on what I am looking for and it's difficult.
That would be like jumping from the pan to the fire. Best wishes in your search for a legal place of worship.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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The 7th day the Lord rested in Genesis and then sanctified that day for the children of Israel to rest and keep holy.
What do you mean by "God rested?" Did God do this every 7th day? My take on what you said is follow God's example.

bugkiller
 
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CDF47

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That would be like jumping from the pan to the fire. Best wishes in your search for a legal place of worship.

bugkiller

Many of the Messianic Jews are Jewish Christians (Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah). Jewish Christians are also in the Bible.
 
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bugkiller

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Many of the Messianic Jews are Jewish Christians (Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah). Jewish Christians are also in the Bible.
I did not attack them. I believe there are some very sincere Christians posing as MJ and SDA. I can not recommend either group for the same reason - false doctrine. I personally do not like having to sort through the dumpster for truth.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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Sabbath day can be a good day of rest although it can be restrictive at times. Still trying to figure out what Daniel meant by changing laws and times though because that did make sense what SDA taught.


Mark 7:6-13 comes to mind.

” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

No problem we can just change the law to something we like.
bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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Sabbath day can be a good day of rest although it can be restrictive at times. Still trying to figure out what Daniel meant by changing laws and times though because that did make sense what SDA taught.


Mark 7:6-13 comes to mind.

” 6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

I could see maybe how it's related SDA time change if that is what you meant.

In a general sense it condemns the tweaking of any of God's Commandments in order to service/please the preferences of man made traditions.

we also know this --

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.


Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

Note from the above quote --

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================
 
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BobRyan

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All the law and prophets hang on those two commandments.

True. "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18... two commandments in the LAW of Moses upon which all other Law and prophets depend - including the command to 'not take God's name in vain' ...which is never quoted in the NT, and not found at all in the book of Genesis.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

When both sides of the debate can freely admit to seeing the same obvious Bible detail.. well it just does not get any easier than that .
 
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BobRyan

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Historically, scholars have focused on four inferences for the meaning of Roman's 14:5ff:

1- Pagan fast days
2- A superstitious view of certain days held by other religions in Rome
3- Universal fast days held by Christians, Pagans, and Jews
4 - The Jewish Sabbath

Where one lands may be a function of presuppositions rather than data. To me, the only thing that is clear is that we can't possibly find someone guilty of violating a special day's rites, sabbath included. The one who is not compelled to keep these commands is considered to be more mature, but no different in God's eye due to God judging the heart. Both honor God with their intent to follow conscience.

Both sabbatarian and non would be judged similarly if Paul's arguments holds generally.

It can't be the Jewish Sabbath because "one man observes one above the other while another man observes them all" is talking about a "Set of days" - to observe... at set of days where God does not condemn any of them. That set of annual Sabbaths is found in Lev 23... they are the annual feast days.
 
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BobRyan

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The context of "fulfilled" in Matthew 5:17 means to fully teach, to fully preach, to fully reveal what was written. Not "complete" it and do away with it to where we don't need to obey God's commands. Which is why following Matthew 5:17, he starts teaching things properly and expounding on the commands.

True -- and incredibly obvious since it is "still a sin - to take God's name in vain" etc.

A point of Bible detail so incredibly obvious that BOTH sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday debate topic - agree that this is true.
 
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BobRyan

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No sir, the sabbath is not from the beginning of creation. The word sabbath is not in Genesis anywhere.

God says it was sanctified and set apart as the day of worship in Genesis 2.. as scholars on both sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday debate freely admit ... as the Bible clearly says in Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 2:3 and as Christ affirms in Mark 2:27 when speaking of the Genesis account and the making of both mankind and the Sabbath.

True. "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18... two commandments in the LAW of Moses upon which all other Law and prophets depend - including the command to 'not take God's name in vain' ...which is never quoted in the NT, and not found at all in the book of Genesis.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

When both sides of the debate can freely admit to seeing the same obvious Bible detail.. well it just does not get any easier than that .
 
Upvote 0