Charlottesville, Racism, and the Gospel

[redleghunter]

Maybe they felt it would be a non-violent event.

I would argue there is enough historical evidence that announced white supremacist and KKK rallies usually draw attention and in most cases end in violent clashes.

The local city and especially state governments have resources that we average Joes and Irenes don't have. They knew. The question is why did they not prepare or why did they let it happen.

If they knew and did nothing to increase the protection of the populace that is negligence.

If they did not know and the information was available and they did not check, that is incompetence.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I would argue there is enough historical evidence that announced white supremacist and KKK rallies usually draw attention and in most cases end in violent clashes.

The local city and especially state governments have resources that we average Joes and Irenes don't have. They knew. The question is why did they not prepare or why did they let it happen.

If they knew and did nothing to increase the protection of the populace that is negligence.

If they did not know and the information was available and they did not check, that is incompetence.

Maybe it was a bit of both negligence and incompetence.

 

[Traveling teacher]

surely these liberal city officials didnt schedule to give permits to both
the left and right extremists at the same time...on purpose
knowing they would fight!!!!!

to score poilitcal advantage and brand the president and
republicans as racists??????
Surely they wudnt stoop that low??????

If they did do this on purpose for whatever reason????
Bible condemns to the worst possible sin as an abomination
He who sows discord among Brethren
proverbs 6:16-19

 

[pescador]

Jew is a race and a religion. Genes are "things" within the natural Human body that science has separated into sets, encodings, and created identifying names, which has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Jesus.



Okay. Review the FACTS -
Hitler was against the Jews -
Some people are against the Jews -
Some people enjoin in groups who are against the Jews -
And some people are against ANYONE who is against the Jews -

Agree?



Consider ~

1) All of the Pharisees were Jews.
Ever hear Jesus SPEAK AGAINST the Jewish Pharisees?

Because He did!

Not picking on you, but rather using your comment and addressing what MANY, who have claimed to be Christians do. Pointing fingers at groups, and pretending they remotely comprehend the intent of a group they have NEVER been associated with.

So people can blah, blah against a group, who openly claim they are against the Jews, and completely ignore history - Jesus Himself spoke against the Jews - God Himself many times exacted punishment upon the Jews - Because "God was in standing with Them" ?

And BIGOTRY? Not illegal. But rather a funny word for people to use. Because for one to simply USE the word against another they disagree with; makes themselves a BIGOT!

I will simply say; Understanding is paramount.
And pretending one understands what they are not a part of; is foolish nonsense.

People who are not a part of a group, are not vested in the understanding of the group.
Doesn't really matter what the group is;
a teen street gang, a group of whatever race of people, a group of whatever religious people, a group of sports players, a group of scientists, of government employees, of whatever; even a group of specifically Christians - until you are part of the group, you don't learn what they stand for - and if you don't remain in that group - you will rarely if ever come into understanding of that group.

But that doesn't STOP anyone from bad mouthing ANY group- being adamantly against them- by pretending they are an authority on group they have NEVER been a part of, nor have any understanding of them.

God Bless,
SBC

Blah, blah, blah. This is all cleverly-word nonsense that doesn't deserve a response.

 

[SBC]

Not anymore. It's Just a religion, and a POST Christian religion at that, having nothing in common with the Hebrews of the Bible.
Jews Today are a MULTI -ETHNIC conglomeration of peoples that do not follow The Law of Moses in any way shape or from. But that is probably off topic.
https://www.christianforums.com/media/jewish-race.55358/full

Dictionary definition;
A “Jew” includes “a member of the tribe of Judah,” “an Israelite,” “a member of a nation existing in the land of Israel from the 6th century B.C. to the 1st century A.D.,” “a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people,” and “one whose religion is Judaism.”

Rabbinical Judaism definition:
A Jew is one who has a Jewish mother or one who has formally converted to Judaism.

Thus a Jew is one with a Jewish mother, regardless of what they believe or practice.
And a Jew is one who practices by upbringing or conversion, the Jewish religion.

So, ya, they are a specific race, and also they are anyone who converts to their religion.

And it is through the dictation of the Religious aspect that determines which Laws from the OT are observed of fulfilled or otherwise no longer necessary.

Bottom line in brief -
Hebrews were a people separated unto to God - according to Tribes.
Jews became a portion of the Hebrews that separated from the whole of the Tribes.
While a Jew is a Jew by birth - he also can separate himself from practicing their religion
While a Gentile is not a Jew by birth - he can be accounted being a Jew by converting to their religion.
And yes the Jewish Religion does in fact follow and observe many, (not all), celebrations of particular feasts and festivals for traditional remembrances of God intervening historically in the lives of the Jews.

And bottom line - Any man, called by ANY race or religion WHO trusts, believes, submits in true faithfulness to the Word of God; is one who shall be cleansed and redeemed by God.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Blah, blah, blah. This is all cleverly-word nonsense that doesn't deserve a response.

That is the whole point!
Any fool can carry on easily hurling accusations and name calling, and even get a foolish audience to applaud and encourage them.

You respond revealing your own way, as many do.....blah, blah, blah, doesn't make sense to you.

It isn't suppose to make sense to you OR ANYONE else, WHO themselves have not received from God Himself "His understanding".

So the observance is you said nothing whatsoever about disagreeing with anything Specific I said.

Nor did you imply or state you have solicited / asked God for His understanding.

You simply reveal it doesn't make sense to you, and you have zero interest to wonder why it doesn't make sense to you.

1Chr.22
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding

God Bless,
SBC

 

[PapaZoom]

No they don't, but anyway.

I have the advantage of being right. Both groups came to fight. One guy rammed his car through a crowd. Those are facts. The police have said this same thing. And notice that one guy was charged with the crime of the car assault and the killing of that woman. Not a group. And the lame attempt to bring in the idea of "peaceful" Muslims ignores the ongoing Islamic terrorism around the world. It's a false equivalence. Check out #Barcelona. There will be more because this is what Muslim terrorists do. And the fact that there are peaceful Muslims is irrelevant. As I said and so have many others. Besides the fact that Islam is not even remotely of God. Islam is a lie from the pit of Hell. And the number of Muslims that would do us harm numbers in the millions. Intellectual honesty matters.

 

[parousia70]

Dictionary definition;
A “Jew” includes “a member of the tribe of Judah,” “an Israelite,” “a member of a nation existing in the land of Israel from the 6th century B.C. to the 1st century A.D.,”

So far so good...

“a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people,”

No one today can demonstrate such descent, and Biblical Judaism does not exist as a religion today, so scratch that...

and “one whose religion is Judaism.”

Judaism today is Talmudic Judaism, a post Christian, man made religion with no covenant relationship to the Living God, nor with the Mosaic Judaism delivered at Mt Sinai.

Thus a Jew is one with a Jewish mother, regardless of what they believe or practice.
And a Jew is one who practices by upbringing or conversion, the Jewish religion.
So, ya, they are a specific race, and also they are anyone who converts to their religion.

By that measure, then you must also assert that Catholics are both a race (offspring of a Catholic mother) or anyone who converts to Catholicism. You claim that too?

And yes the Jewish Religion does in fact follow and observe many, (not all), celebrations of particular feasts and festivals for traditional remembrances of God intervening historically in the lives of the Jews.

Scripture teaches that "Jews" that didn't follow the Torah were excommunicated from among the people of God and were considered heathen (Ex 12:14-15,19; Ex 31:14). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham.

That bears repeating:

There is no such thing as "Jews" that don't follow the Torah (which is ALL Jews today) Such "Jews" were excommunicated from among the people of God and were considered heathen (Ex 12:14-15,19; Ex 31:14). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham.

And bottom line - Any man, called by ANY race or religion WHO trusts, believes, submits in true faithfulness to the Word of God; is one who shall be cleansed and redeemed by God.

The word of God being Jesus Christ, yes.

But again... we are drifting WAAAAYYY off topic..

 

[Jenny_8675309]

I have the advantage of being right. Both groups came to fight. One guy rammed his car through a crowd. Those are facts. The police have said this same thing. And notice that one guy was charged with the crime of the car assault and the killing of that woman. Not a group. And the lame attempt to bring in the idea of "peaceful" Muslims ignores the ongoing Islamic terrorism around the world. It's a false equivalence. Check out #Barcelona. There will be more because this is what Muslim terrorists do. And the fact that there are peaceful Muslims is irrelevant. As I said and so have many others. Besides the fact that Islam is not even remotely of God. Islam is a lie from the pit of Hell. And the number of Muslims that would do us harm numbers in the millions. Intellectual honesty matters.

Do you think this is the one instance of white supremicists using violence?

 

[John2222]

From Breakpoint:

by: John Stonestreet & David Carlson


The nation is reeling from Saturday’s chaos in Charlottesville. The Church cannot sit this one out.



The book of Revelation, chapter 7, gives us an extraordinary vision from God of the Kingdom of Heaven in its fullness: “a great multitude … from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne of God and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: ‘Salvation belongs to our God/who sits on the throne/and to the Lamb.’”

What we saw this past weekend in Charlottesville was the exact, fiendish opposite. Crowds filled with hate, bent on violence. We saw not dazzling robes of white washed in the blood of the lamb, but the stains of red from human blood spilled in demonic anger.

I learned of what happened Saturday afternoon after landing in the Dominican Republic, where I’ll be teaching this week. Yesterday on BreakPoint, we promised part two of our series on the American suicide epidemic, and we will pick that up tomorrow. But today, facing the specter of racism in our country, it’s time for moral clarity.

And here it is: As my BreakPoint co-host Eric Metaxas tweeted over the weekend, racism is the very antithesis of the love of Jesus for all. I’ll expand on that thought: every racist ideology, including the white nationalism and neo-Nazi rhetoric and images displayed by the so-called alt-right in Charlottesville, is rooted in the pit of hell. There’s no defending it. It’s not Christian. It’s not American. And it ought not even be associated with conservatism.

And as My BreakPoint this Week co-host Ed Stetzer wrote at Christianity Today, it’s easy to say that there are “many sides” involved in violence and hatred. In fact, we Christians do well to call out the left-wing extremists like Antifa, who parade through downtowns smashing things. But Christ followers must also condemnthis act, this protest, this violence in the strongest possible terms, and I’m grateful for those political and religious leaders who claim the name of Christ who wasted no time in doing so. The world needs to hear that clear Christian witness.

And still, these events make it painfully obvious that, while we need deft and courageous political leadership, it’s the Church that’s most needed now. Politics will not save us from ourselves. As one evangelical adviser to President Trump, Johnnie Moore, told CNN, “The right remains too passive and the left remains too political when it comes to ethnic divisions in this country. One side underestimates the issue and the other side provokes further conflict. Both sides distrust each other. This must end if we are to find national healing.”

I’m glad President Trump finally identified the alt-right by name, but his delay, especially in light of his long history of Twitter specificity, is an example of the passivity Moore described. As Senator Orrin Hatch tweeted, “We should call evil by its name. My brother didn’t die fighting Hitler for Nazis to go unchallenged today.”

Look, America has a race problem. Political parties, special-interest groups, and the media aren’t helping. In fact, too often, they make things worse.

More at link: BreakPoint: Charlottesville, Racism, and the Gospel

 

[John2222]

Actually lets look at it this way. The white nationalist, KKK, Nazis etc. had a constitutional right to demonstrate. What they stand for is completely anti Christian and evil. Personally, I think there should be a law against protests promoting hate and racism. They should not have been given a permit. But that is another debate. But although the anti-protesters were for Christian values, denouncing racism and you can't compare the two, the counter protest did contribute to the violence. So there is some responsibility on both sides. The real culprit is city, which is at fault for not keeping them separate the two groups.

From Breakpoint:

by: John Stonestreet & David Carlson


The nation is reeling from Saturday’s chaos in Charlottesville. The Church cannot sit this one out.



The book of Revelation, chapter 7, gives us an extraordinary vision from God of the Kingdom of Heaven in its fullness: “a great multitude … from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne of God and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: ‘Salvation belongs to our God/who sits on the throne/and to the Lamb.’”

What we saw this past weekend in Charlottesville was the exact, fiendish opposite. Crowds filled with hate, bent on violence. We saw not dazzling robes of white washed in the blood of the lamb, but the stains of red from human blood spilled in demonic anger.

I learned of what happened Saturday afternoon after landing in the Dominican Republic, where I’ll be teaching this week. Yesterday on BreakPoint, we promised part two of our series on the American suicide epidemic, and we will pick that up tomorrow. But today, facing the specter of racism in our country, it’s time for moral clarity.

And here it is: As my BreakPoint co-host Eric Metaxas tweeted over the weekend, racism is the very antithesis of the love of Jesus for all. I’ll expand on that thought: every racist ideology, including the white nationalism and neo-Nazi rhetoric and images displayed by the so-called alt-right in Charlottesville, is rooted in the pit of hell. There’s no defending it. It’s not Christian. It’s not American. And it ought not even be associated with conservatism.

And as My BreakPoint this Week co-host Ed Stetzer wrote at Christianity Today, it’s easy to say that there are “many sides” involved in violence and hatred. In fact, we Christians do well to call out the left-wing extremists like Antifa, who parade through downtowns smashing things. But Christ followers must also condemnthis act, this protest, this violence in the strongest possible terms, and I’m grateful for those political and religious leaders who claim the name of Christ who wasted no time in doing so. The world needs to hear that clear Christian witness.

And still, these events make it painfully obvious that, while we need deft and courageous political leadership, it’s the Church that’s most needed now. Politics will not save us from ourselves. As one evangelical adviser to President Trump, Johnnie Moore, told CNN, “The right remains too passive and the left remains too political when it comes to ethnic divisions in this country. One side underestimates the issue and the other side provokes further conflict. Both sides distrust each other. This must end if we are to find national healing.”

I’m glad President Trump finally identified the alt-right by name, but his delay, especially in light of his long history of Twitter specificity, is an example of the passivity Moore described. As Senator Orrin Hatch tweeted, “We should call evil by its name. My brother didn’t die fighting Hitler for Nazis to go unchallenged today.”

Look, America has a race problem. Political parties, special-interest groups, and the media aren’t helping. In fact, too often, they make things worse.

More at link: BreakPoint: Charlottesville, Racism, and the Gospel

 

[John2222]

I don't know if a agree with you. Although the KKK and Nazis may profess to being Christians, their agenda is completely anti Christian. So it is not a case of Christians doing violence against Christians.
Some of the counter protesters did include Christians and pastors and they have to examine their actions and take some responsibility for the violence. If they were not there the woman would not have died. But even Christians doing violence against non Christians is not good.

I think what happened Saturday was very tragic. While I am fully for peaceful assembly/demonstrations, I deplore evil intent and violence. IMHO no one should have to die for participation in a peaceful demonstration. That being said, as a Christian, I am concerned that Christians are doing violence against one another. I am sure that there were Christians on both sides of this situation. Yes there were unbelievers there too. Lord Jesus said we are the light of the world, and we are the salt of the Earth.Salt is seasoning, and light scatters the darkness. But what we saw Saturday from both sides was darkness and bitterness. Where was the salt, where was the light?
1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

IMHO introspection is a good thing. It takes a very big person to say "I was wrong." whether in thought or deed. How can the Body of Christ ever come together if we bite and devour at one another.
Gal. 5: 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Let us not start to shift blame for what happened, but we can take steps by examining ourselves. Let's expose the darkness and bitterness in our own hearts and minds that festers within our own souls, and submit it to the cleansing that Apostle John speaks of.

 

[John2222]

You have some good points but if counter protesters had been active in the 1930's in Germany and their protests were successful against the Nazi's at the time and world war two was avoided, would that have been a bad thing? Would they be to blame for disrupting Hitler and the nazis at a rally? After all Hitler and the Nazis were only exercising their constitutional right.




[QUOTE


Not American?

I totally disagree with you.

It absolutely is American and Constitutional for a group of citizens AGAINST what an American Government is attempting to do, for such citizens to demonstrate a protest AGAINST the Governments intent. And such citizens did so, apply for and receive a permit to hold their demonstration of protest and objection.

The group of citizens WHO chose to hold a protest, are well known citizens who exalt their own race. So what? How they exalt there own race favored over other races IS THEIR prerogative. Their gathering was NOT promoting their white race. Their gathering was in OBJECTION to a governments intent to discard a part of American History.

Then we have a group of citizens, whose own favor is of themselves and AGAINST the citizens whose intention was to protest the governments intent and favor of their white race.

And seriously - the government of Charlottesville ISSUED not only the men protesting the governments decision....but ALSO issued permits for protesters AGAINST protesters in the same city on the same day?

And further ~ the media, the people at large ~ nary a one have commented on the governments ignorance or the intent and behavior of protesters protesting protesters ~ but instead are wielding their tongue against a group who Are citizens, (who had permits, who were pressing grievances against a governments intent to remove a part of American History)
BY name-calling with the intent to disparage their own right to believe as they wish.

Good grief. I do not have to agree or disagree with the stance of a pro-white group, or any group, to know and agree they have a right to protest against government intents and decisions, have a right to be permitted to assemble with like minded individuals, have a right to speak freely.....and do so in such a fashion that they are not attacked.

Protestors protesting protestors at the same venue is with intent to disrupt, antagonize, intimidate, goad, coax and instigate. And do so come prepared, with sprays, protective head gear, knives, guns, blah, blah.

IMO the government was a fault. The protestors of the protestors were at fault. And the whole ramifications of the tragedy is being squarely blamed on the pro-white group,
which IMO is wrong.



Agree.

God Bless,
SBC[/QUOTE]

 

[John2222]

Both sides bare some responsibility, but one side is well intended believing they are standing up for Christian principles, while the other side is promoting evil. In the recent past the white nationalist, KKK, and American Nazis have had rallies and most people including the media just ignored the 200 or so people who showed up. The counter protesters and media are just giving a small irrelevant group a forum.

...and now this; http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/dai...ist-in-charlottesville/#.WZND2Lf_8oE.facebook

but the problems are on BOTH sides... [/s]

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

It isn't suppose to make sense to you OR ANYONE else, WHO themselves have not received from God Himself "His understanding".

Is very clever. Know who has received from God Himself "His understanding".

So who on list that received from God Himself "His understanding"? Is you on that list?

 

[SBC]

No one today can demonstrate such descent, and Biblical Judaism does not exist as a religion today, so scratch that...

Judaism today is Talmudic Judaism, a post Christian, man made religion with no covenant relationship to the Living God, nor with the Mosaic Judaism delivered at Mt Sinai.

Scripture teaches that "Jews" that didn't follow the Torah were excommunicated from among the people of God and were considered heathen (Ex 12:14-15,19; Ex 31:14). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham.

That bears repeating:

There is no such thing as "Jews" that don't follow the Torah (which is ALL Jews today) Such "Jews" were excommunicated from among the people of God and were considered heathen (Ex 12:14-15,19; Ex 31:14). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham.

 

[SBC]

Is very clever.

Clever? I would say Gods plan is Brilliant! Knowledge given to ALL. Understanding reserved for the faithful.

Even Satan, with power greater than men, knows Scripture, quotes Scripture, but fails in understanding.

Pss 91
[11] For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
[12] They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matt 4
[6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Know who has received from God Himself "His understanding".

The faithful who are prepared to receive it.

So who on list that received from God Himself "His understanding"?

Some are listed in Luke 24 and other Scriptures if that is your interest, you can go study.

Is you on that list?

Of course.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Clever? I would say Gods plan is Brilliant! Knowledge given to ALL. Understanding reserved for the faithful.

Even Satan, with power greater than men, knows Scripture, quotes Scripture, but fails in understanding.

Pss 91
[11] For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
[12] They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matt 4
[6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.




The faithful who are prepared to receive it.



Some are listed in Luke 24 and other Scriptures if that is your interest, you can go study.



Of course.

God Bless,
SBC

You not understand. You say pescador not understand post because only people who "received from God Himself His understanding" can understand post. You create post that way that I call clever. God "brilliant" so agree that.

I ask who on list of peoples who can understand post. I ask if you can understand post. I want list of who on christianforums.com "received from God Himself His understanding".

 

[Jenny_8675309]

surely these liberal city officials didnt schedule to give permits to both
the left and right extremists at the same time...on purpose
knowing they would fight!!!!!

to score poilitcal advantage and brand the president and
republicans as racists??????
Surely they wudnt stoop that low??????

If they did do this on purpose for whatever reason????
Bible condemns to the worst possible sin as an abomination
He who sows discord among Brethren
proverbs 6:16-19

They didn't, so no.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Both sides bare some responsibility, but one side is well intended believing they are standing up for Christian principles, while the other side is promoting evil. In the recent past the white nationalist, KKK, and American Nazis have had rallies and most people including the media just ignored the 200 or so people who showed up. The counter protesters and media are just giving a small irrelevant group a forum.

While I can agree with much of your post here, I disagree with what you wrote about the counter protesters and media giving a small irrelevant group a forum. These groups have operated in secrecy long enough. They should be exposed for the evil they harbor and I mean all of them. They call themselves Christians and give Christians a bad reputation. By exposing them, their sympathizers are exposed, especially those called to be Christians. Hate is not the way of the Lord Jesus.He shed His blood for all mankind. It is hypocritical and vile to say you love Lord Jesus, but hate your brother that you see daily, or every church service .These groups are poisoning our youth with their rhetoric and it needs some light shed upon them before it is too late.