If Jesus gave a NEW or his own set of Commandments, he is a sinner and NOT the Messiah!!!

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if you are on here long enough, you will hear this alot: The only commands Christians are to follow is the New command from Jesus from John 13:34-35, and disregard everything else and they will say he did add a new command.
Not quite, but close enough.
 
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Doveaman

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the Torah specifically states do not add to the word
So why do you guys keep adding a 10 to the Bible whenever you see the word "commandments" even when the Bible does not have a 10?
No he cant add any commandments, as the Torah specifically states do not add to the word and he came to earth a couple thousand years afterwards, so if Jesus came and started his own doctrine, he would have been sinning. He stated that he came to do the will of the father, not his own.
Are you saying Jesus came to teach us how to obey the Old Covenant?
 
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BobRyan

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Deuteronomy 4:2
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Jesus expanded on many of the commands and that they start from your heart whether it was murder can start from hate or adultery can start from lust. He summed up the commands into 2, but a sum doesnt not equal a cancellation of it.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

These 2 commands came from:
Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 6:5
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.


So back to Deut 4:2, Jesus could not add any New Commands to the word of God, so the excuses used on here by some that the only thing they have to follow is the one NEW command in John 13:34-35, and disregard everything else is FALSE.


Jesus was not giving his disciples a new command, he was just giving them a lesson on a original command for the first time and showing them the example on how he lived it out for them.

John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
 
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SAAN

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So why do you guys keep adding a 10 to the Bible whenever you see the word "commandments" even when the Bible does not have a 10?
Are you saying Jesus came to teach us how to obey the Old Covenant?
Nope. Old Covenant, the laws were written on stone and in the New Covenant, the laws are written on your heart. Jesus fulfilled the animal sacrificial system, so his blood replaces the blood of animals when we sin and turn for repentance.

What im saying he he didnt come teaching a new doctrine with new commandments, he simply upheld his fathers commands and explained or expanded on the true meaning of them, and called out the Pharisees on all the added man made laws there were trying to force on others. Those added laws were what were considered a yoke or burden to do, not the commands of God.
 
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BobRyan

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Nope. Old Covenant, the laws were written on stone and in the New Covenant, the laws are written on your heart. Jesus fulfilled the animal sacrificial system, so his blood replaces the blood of animals when we sin and turn for repentance.
.

Amen!

A Bible detail so incredibly obvious that scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate agree to it.
 
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Doveaman

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Nope. Old Covenant, the laws were written on stone and in the New Covenant, the laws are written on your heart.
Nope.

The laws written on our hearts is the Spirit of the law, not the letter of the law:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone" (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).
What im saying he he didnt come teaching a new doctrine with new commandments, he simply upheld his fathers commands and explained or expanded on the true meaning of them
If Christ expanded on the true meaning of the 10 commandments, it means that the 10 commandments was not the true meaning of God's law, and the true meaning would therefore be new.

The true meaning of God's law is love. Love fulfills the true meaning of God's law: Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

The 10 commandments is not the fulfillment of the law. Love is.
 
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SAAN

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Nope.

The laws written on our hearts is the Spirit of the law, not the letter of the law:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone" (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).
If Christ expanded on the true meaning of the 10 commandments, it means that the 10 commandments was not the true meaning of God's law, and the true meaning would therefore be new.

The true meaning of God's law is love. Love fulfills the true meaning of God's law: Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

The 10 commandments is not the fulfillment of the law. Love is.
I never once said the 10C's are the fulfillment of the law, as Christ himself said that the law is SUMMED as Love God and Love one another, what im saying is the whole theory of canceling everything he taught in favor of 1 command isnt biblical.

Our whole purpose of everything should be Love, but God does have other commands, and Love shouldnt be tied with disobedience either.
 
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Doveaman

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I never once said the 10C's are the fulfillment of the law, as Christ himself said that the law is SUMMED as Love God and Love one another, what im saying is the whole theory of canceling everything he taught in favor of 1 command isnt biblical.

Our whole purpose of everything should be Love, but God does have other commands, and Love shouldnt be tied with disobedience either.
Love is all there is, because love is all God is. All of God's commands are inspired by His love and obeyed through His love. There's nothing more.

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love...No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and His love is made complete in us...And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like Him...And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also." (1 John 4:7-21).

Love is all there is, because love is all God is, and on the day of judgment, love is all that matters.
 
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Soyeong

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Deuteronomy 4:2
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Jesus expanded on many of the commands and that they start from your heart whether it was murder can start from hate or adultery can start from lust. He summed up the commands into 2, but a sum doesnt not equal a cancellation of it.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

These 2 commands came from:
Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 6:5
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.


So back to Deut 4:2, Jesus could not add any New Commands to the word of God, so the excuses used on here by some that the only thing they have to follow is the one NEW command in John 13:34-35, and disregard everything else is FALSE.


Jesus was not giving his disciples a new command, he was just giving them a lesson on a original command for the first time and showing them the example on how he lived it out for them.

There is nothing brand new about the command to love our neighbor because it is found in the OT, but what is new is the quality of the example by which we are to love our neighbor, and the Greek word use for "new" refers to newness with respect to quality rather than newness with respect to time.
 
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Soyeong

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Luke 16:16
Laws were never made for salvation but to distinc Israel from gentiles , Israel was never saved by any law because nobody can keep law , they were saved by believe on comming Messiah that will die for thier sins.

Law is just mirror for you to see that you are dirty , it won't clean you .

God said that what He commanded was not too difficult (Deuteronomy 30:11-14) and by faith we should also believe that to be true (Romans 10:5-10), so to say that nobody can keep the Law is to directly contradict God and to disregard all the people who have kept and do keep the Law. So the reason why Israel was never saved by any law is not because nobody can keep it, but because no law was given to provide the means of becoming saved in the first place.

Luke 16:16 and the surrounding verses are all in support of obeying the Law.
 
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Soyeong

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Start here with a bit of understanding. Who is the 'you' who shall not add to the word? Those who receive it from the Lord.

Did Jesus receive it from the Lord? No. He was the one giving it.
Therefore, is He included in the group commanded not to change it? No.
Who can change it? The one giving it.
Who gave it? The Lord.
Was Jesus the Lord? Yes.
Therefore, can Jesus change it? Yes.

Psalms 119: All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.

Do you believe that this verse is true? Jesus was born under the Law (Galatians 4:4), so he was under both ends of the covenant and therefore was also required to obey it. God's righteousness is eternal, so the way to act according to His righteousness is also eternal, which means that if Jesus could change to way to do what is righteous, then God's righteousness is not eternal.
 
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Soyeong

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Actually, the commandments of Christ was new to those who were relying on the 10 commandments all their lives:

"'All these I have kept from my youth,' the young man said. 'What do I still lack?' Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me'" (Matthew 19:20-21).

Where in the Old Testament are we commanded to give up everything we have to follow Christ?

Giving up everything we have to follow Christ is a new commandment.

All of our obedience to God is our obedience to that new commandment.

All of our obedience to God is our giving up everything we have to follow Christ.

"The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent Him" (John 5:22-23).

There are many people today who still rely on the 10 commandments, and they still do not even recognize the Son.

A relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4). What Jesus taught was not any different from what the Father taught (John 14:23-24).

Love is all there is, because love is all God is. All of God's commands are inspired by His love and obeyed through His love. There's nothing more.

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love...No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and His love is made complete in us...And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like Him...And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also." (1 John 4:7-21).

Love is all there is, because love is all God is, and on the day of judgment, love is all that matters.

It is important to follow God's instructions for how to love so that we can love in the way that God wants us to.

We now live by the new commands of the Spirit, and not by the old commands of the letter/10 Commandments:

Do you think that the Spirit is in disagreement with what the Father commanded?
 
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Doveaman

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A relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law for righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4). What Jesus taught was not any different from what the Father taught (John 14:23-24).
The Father is Spirit and the Son is Spirit, and we serve God according to the law of the Spirit, not the letter:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
It is important to follow God's instructions for how to love so that we can love in the way that God wants us to.
Yes, but we no longer serve God based on the 10 commandments which was "engraved in letters on stone". The 10 commandments is not the fulfillment of God's law. Love is the fulfillment of God's law: Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Love fulfills the righteous requirements of the law, even by Gentiles who do not have the law of 10 commandments:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts -- (Romans 2:14-15).

The requirements of the law written on our hearts is love.
Do you think that the Spirit is in disagreement with what the Father commanded?
The law of 10 commandments was commanded for sinful man: "Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners" (1 Timothy 1:9).

We do not serve God based on a law for sinners, we serve God based on the love of the Spirit. God is Spirit and God is love, and love is all that will matter on the day of judgment:

"God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment" (1 John 4:7-21).
 
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Doveaman

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There is nothing brand new about the command to love our neighbor because it is found in the OT, but what is new is the quality of the example by which we are to love our neighbor, and the Greek word use for "new" refers to newness with respect to quality rather than newness with respect to time.
Are you saying the love in the OT is of a lower quality than the love in the NT?

Was the love of Abraham of a lower quality?

“The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham...So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” (Galatians 3:8-17).
 
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Soyeong

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The Father is Spirit and the Son is Spirit, and we serve God according to the law of the Spirit, not the letter:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).


The Law of the Spirit is exactly the same as the Law of Christ, which is exactly the same as the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. If you say that we follow the Law of the Spirit instead of the Law of the Father, which He gave to Moses, then you are essentially saying that the Spirit and the Father are in disagreement with each other about what conduct we should have. Rather the difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law, as is reflected in modern discussions about law enforcement, is not in regard to following two different sets of laws, but in regard to the manner in which we obeyed them. In other words, do we seek to obey the Law exactly how it is written or do we seek to obey the Law according to the intent behind it.

The goal of the Law is a relationship with Christ for righteousness for everyone who has faith (Romans 10:4). There are many verses that speak about the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage between God and Israel, so the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to grow in an intimate relationship with Him based on faith and love. However, God's Law can be outwardly obeyed for reasons other than that, and God has always disdained it when His people honored him with their lips while their hearts were far from him (Isaiah 29:13). This is what Paul referred to as rubbish (Philippians 3:8) and the reason why Israel failed to obtain righteousness is because they misunderstood the goal of the Law (Romans 9:32 - Romans 10:10), so outward obedience to the Law while our hearts are far from God is complete missing the whole point and is just as Lawless as living in disobedience to it (Matthew 7:21-23), and just as assuredly leads to death (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

Yes, but we no longer serve God based on the 10 commandments which was "engraved in letters on stone". The 10 commandments is not the fulfillment of God's law. Love is the fulfillment of God's law: Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Love fulfills the righteous requirements of the law, even by Gentiles who do not have the law of 10 commandments:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts -- (Romans 2:14-15).

The requirements of the law written on our hearts is love.

A change in medium on which the commands are written does not change the content of the commands, but only serves to highlight the important to God that we keep them. To fulfill the Law means to cause God's will as made known in the Law to be obeyed as it should be and love fulfills the entire Law because it is obeying it as it should be. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law as being instructions for how to love God and for how to love our neighbor, so love fulfills the Law because that it what the Law is about how to do.

The law of 10 commandments was commanded for sinful man: "Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners" (1 Timothy 1:9).

We do not serve God based on a law for sinners, we serve God based on the love of the Spirit. God is Spirit and God is love, and love is all that will matter on the day of judgment:

"God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment" (1 John 4:7-21).

To use an analogy, speed limits are not needed for those who would drive at safe speeds if there were no speed limits, but rather they are needed for those who would otherwise drive at unsafe speeds. The Law instructs us how to do what is righteous, so it is not needed for those who are already doing what is righteous. The Law was given to reveal what sin is, so if you use 1 Timothy 1:9 to say that you are free to do what the Law revealed to be sin because the law is meant for sinners, then you are showing yourself to be exactly the person who the Law is for. Again, if the Law of the Father is distinct from the Law of the Spirit, then they are in disagreement with each other, but rather the Law of the Father precisely is the Law of love. God has given instructions for how to love Him and we should endeavor to love Him in the way that He wants us to rather than spurn His instructions.
 
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Soyeong

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Are you saying the love in the OT is of a lower quality than the love in the NT?

Was the love of Abraham of a lower quality?

“The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham...So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” (Galatians 3:8-17).

Sorry for not being clear, I was speaking about the command, not the quality of love. In Leviticus 19:18, it says to love our neighbor as ourselves, but in John 13:34, it says to love our neighbors as Jesus loved us, so the difference is not in the command to love our neighbors, but in revealing the deeper principle of how should love our neighbor.
 
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