Charlottesville, Racism, and the Gospel

[brinny]

Dodging the question? I see.

The feces and the urine and the outright terroristic tactics of antifa still stands, regarding antifa, and it continues as they continue getting paid by Soros.

This is not random. It's a strategy that's well-planned out, and been happening over and over again for at least two years.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

The feces and the urine and the outright terroristic tactics of antifa still stands, regarding antifa, and it continues as they continue getting paid by Soros.

This is not random. It's a strategy that's well-planned out, and been happening over and over again for at least two years.

If you're not going to respond to my question, I'm not going to respond to your evidence free claims.

 

[brinny]

If you're not going to respond to my question, I'm not going to respond to your evidence free claims.

As you wish.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

As you wish.

Completely up to you.

 

[brinny]

Completely up to you.

I got that.

 

[redleghunter]

It wasn't a response to the article.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

Thank you for clarifying.

Happy to

I "liked" the article, didn't I? I meant to.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

From Breakpoint:

by: John Stonestreet & David Carlson


The nation is reeling from Saturday’s chaos in Charlottesville. The Church cannot sit this one out.



The book of Revelation, chapter 7, gives us an extraordinary vision from God of the Kingdom of Heaven in its fullness: “a great multitude … from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne of God and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: ‘Salvation belongs to our God/who sits on the throne/and to the Lamb.’”

What we saw this past weekend in Charlottesville was the exact, fiendish opposite. Crowds filled with hate, bent on violence. We saw not dazzling robes of white washed in the blood of the lamb, but the stains of red from human blood spilled in demonic anger.

I learned of what happened Saturday afternoon after landing in the Dominican Republic, where I’ll be teaching this week. Yesterday on BreakPoint, we promised part two of our series on the American suicide epidemic, and we will pick that up tomorrow. But today, facing the specter of racism in our country, it’s time for moral clarity.

And here it is: As my BreakPoint co-host Eric Metaxas tweeted over the weekend, racism is the very antithesis of the love of Jesus for all. I’ll expand on that thought: every racist ideology, including the white nationalism and neo-Nazi rhetoric and images displayed by the so-called alt-right in Charlottesville, is rooted in the pit of hell. There’s no defending it. It’s not Christian. It’s not American. And it ought not even be associated with conservatism.

And as My BreakPoint this Week co-host Ed Stetzer wrote at Christianity Today, it’s easy to say that there are “many sides” involved in violence and hatred. In fact, we Christians do well to call out the left-wing extremists like Antifa, who parade through downtowns smashing things. But Christ followers must also condemnthis act, this protest, this violence in the strongest possible terms, and I’m grateful for those political and religious leaders who claim the name of Christ who wasted no time in doing so. The world needs to hear that clear Christian witness.

And still, these events make it painfully obvious that, while we need deft and courageous political leadership, it’s the Church that’s most needed now. Politics will not save us from ourselves. As one evangelical adviser to President Trump, Johnnie Moore, told CNN, “The right remains too passive and the left remains too political when it comes to ethnic divisions in this country. One side underestimates the issue and the other side provokes further conflict. Both sides distrust each other. This must end if we are to find national healing.”

I’m glad President Trump finally identified the alt-right by name, but his delay, especially in light of his long history of Twitter specificity, is an example of the passivity Moore described. As Senator Orrin Hatch tweeted, “We should call evil by its name. My brother didn’t die fighting Hitler for Nazis to go unchallenged today.”

Look, America has a race problem. Political parties, special-interest groups, and the media aren’t helping. In fact, too often, they make things worse.

More at link: BreakPoint: Charlottesville, Racism, and the Gospel

Both sides are awful. Leave sculptures alone. They're part of historical heritage. Whatever it is.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

Both sides are awful. Leave sculptures alone. They're part of historical heritage. Whatever it is.

Only one "side" killed people using terrorist tactics in Charlottesville, though.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

FWIW, this was my FB post on this topic earlier today.

These are 2 serious questions I have. But first a translated quote from Nietzche. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Here is my first question. 1. What do we do with white supremacists? Seriously. Shoot them? Lynch them? Imprison them? Fire them from any form of employment? Shun them? Burn down their houses? Brand their foreheads? Exile them? Forcibly indoctrinate them? Dialog with them? Try to convert them? Ignore them? Tell them to shut up? Get into shouting matches with them? Beat them up? Eradicate all traces of them?

And here is my second question. 2. How do we limit what we want to do to white supremacists to only white supremacists? How do we make sure that the tools and methods and precedents we set now do not slowly become our normal manner for dealing with any group of people we disagree with? At what point in dealing with hate, do we become hate-filled haters ourselves that start to view some groups of people as evil and sub-human because they don't fit our standards of what they should think or believe? At what point do we become a lynch mob lead by inquisitors and witch hunters to find and eradicate all potential traces of hate? At what point do we become "love" supremacists that hate and oppress anyone who is evil enough to exhibit any sign of what we define to be "hate"?

I'm not implying nothing should be done. I'm trying to sort through much of this myself as to what is the healthiest course of action in the long run. I'm not convinced that viewing neo-nazis or white supremacists as vile evil subhumans is healthy. It gets us too comfortable with the idea of splitting human beings into "acceptable" and "unacceptable" groups based on litmus tests. I think we need an alternative way of thinking about this and I'm not entirely sure what it is.


Someone responded that any neo-nazi wanting to be associated with 6 million deaths driven by racial/religious hatred is subhuman. My response was the following.

Many of the worst genocides in the 20th century were ideologically and politically driven rather than racially driven under communist regimes. 1 to 3 million in Cambodia, tens of millions in China's great leap forward (potentially in the 50 to 60 million range), and potentially tens of millions in Stalin's USSR purges. These are numbers of a scale beyond comprehension. These movements to some extent started under the guise of helping the oppressed throw off the chains of their oppressors and ended up as something equally as bad or worse. To be blunt, I see the neo-nazis and white supremacists as cousins of the German Nazis and much of the so-called Antifa and counter protesters as cousins of the communists. I'm just hoping the majority of Americans can figure out how to steer a path between these two without being forced into the false dichotomy of choosing one or the other. Unfortunately, both of these extreme views benefit by raising emotions higher and higher until everyone feels forced to take sides and no longer sees the third option of rejecting them both.

 

[brinny]

Both sides are awful. Leave sculptures alone. They're part of historical heritage. Whatever it is.

I agree about the statues and historic pieces.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Both sides are awful. Leave sculptures alone. They're part of historical heritage. Whatever it is.

I have not really paid any attention to statues. But some people are highly offended by the reminders of a very dark time in American history. Some people use them as symbols of an America they would like to see return. There is the conflict. If they are going to be an incitement for division then they need to go.Jesus warned us that a house divided cannot stand. Really what do statues and flags do but foment hate and division.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Only one "side" killed people using terrorist tactics in Charlottesville, though.

That doesn't automatically take the responsibility for the whole nasty event off of those who instigated it. Not those who were on the streets, they are cannon fodder.

 

[SBC]

The neo-Nazis, KKK, and other alt-right hate groups have one agenda: the overthrow of the established government, if necessary by violence.

Are you part of their group that you know their intent?
They are against erasing symbols of American History, and I agree with them on that point.

Why do you think they had torches reminiscent of Hitler's Germany,

Because it was dark. And BTW, torches were used long before Hitler

Nazi flags,

I didn't see any, but then it is not a secret Hitler also was pro-white.

confederate battle flags,

Because they are part of American History.

were carrying guns and shields, and many wore military-style clothing and gear, etc?

Because protesters protesting protesters were already known would be rallying in town on the same day, who BTW brought sprays and weapons.
And BTW - how someone dresses is none of your business.

These groups have never intended to have a peaceful rally to put forth their views about how to make this country a better place.

Again, are you part of that group to be so well informed of their intent?

This time and every previous time they come looking for a fight.

Big difference between LOOKING for a fight and being PREPARED for a defense.
I'm always PREPARED.

If you want to protest, why show up with weapons?

Friday night they had permission by permit to be in Jackson/Liberty park. What were the protesters against the protesters doing there? Instigators!
And BTW, I always carry, regardless of where I am going.

Saturday they had permission by permit to be in Lee/Emancipation park. What were the protesters against the protesters doing there? Instigators!

It is unfortunate they they were met by counterprotesters,

Unfortunate? Unlawful! Unlawful for groups to gather without permit. And utterly STUPID on the part of the government if they permitted two opposing groups to be
at the same place at the same time.

So why were the police there at a permitted protest, escorting the permitted group THROUGH the other group? And the police armed with weapons and tear-gas and tactile gear?

Again why were the counter-protesters there, and not dispersed?

some of whom believed that violence must be met with violence,

What violence does a like-minded group exact among themselves; until an instigator shows up?

but the fact remains that the alt-right groups have violence as a core strategy.

I think they have a planned defense, since no where do they go that, other groups try to butt in on their protest and instigate a fight.

And many of the same instigators there, I have seen disrupt other rally's, take over the stage and microphone, destroy businesses, burn cars and run and hide like the little weasels they are.

Why anyone with half an ounce of gray matter would attend or barge in on a rally held by either group is beyond me.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[redleghunter]

Both sides are awful. Leave sculptures alone. They're part of historical heritage. Whatever it is.

I agree destroying public property is unlawful. The article has to do with how we Christians conduct ourselves. The article title includes the word "Gospel" and we as Chistisns are living testimonies to the Gospel. I think that is the point.

We all know the facts. Sure we can finger point at "all sides" however, a life was lost due to hatred. As hatred also was the cause for a man to indiscriminately shoot at GOP congressmen at a baseball practice.

Why are we Christians getting down in the muck arguing for one side or the other. We need to be above it all.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

I have not really paid any attention to statues. But some people are highly offended by the reminders of a very dark time in American history. Some people use them as symbols of an America they would like to see return. There is the conflict. If they are going to be an incitement for division then they need to go.Jesus warned us that a house divided cannot stand. Really what do statues and flags do but foment hate and division.

I perfectly understand it. You know, there are no blameless historical figures. It's not black and white. You just leave your nation's history alone.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

FWIW, this was my FB post on this topic earlier today.

These are 2 serious questions I have. But first a translated quote from Nietzche. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Here is my first question. 1. What do we do with white supremacists? Seriously. Shoot them? Lynch them? Imprison them? Fire them from any form of employment? Shun them? Burn down their houses? Brand their foreheads? Exile them? Forcibly indoctrinate them? Dialog with them? Try to convert them? Ignore them? Tell them to shut up? Get into shouting matches with them? Beat them up? Eradicate all traces of them?

Good question.

The answer must be engagement and education, and address of root causes. Exactly the same as dealing with any other form of extremism.

 

[PapaZoom]

Only one "side" killed people using terrorist tactics in Charlottesville, though.

Only one side killed people so the other side's not so bad.

 

[FireDragon76]

The first photo that came out of the young woman who was killed showed her wearing a small gold cross necklace. That gave me hope that she is one of God's children.

I'd rather look at her deeds, not her jewelry.

 

[Jenny_8675309]

Only one side killed people so the other side's not so bad.

Um, yes? Yes, the side that kill people is worse than the side that doesn't. I think that's something pretty easy for everyone to acknowledge, really.