Christian anarchism

[Mathieu Lesnar]

Hi everybody !

I would like to open a thread about a politcal theory that i love, this is for know some other christian opinion about Christian Anarchism. If you don't know this political philosophy i put HERE the wikipedia's link for give you an introduction.

What do you think about that ? Do you think a country only ruled by the holy law can exist and work ? let me know your point of view, it will be a pleasure for me to read and talk about that.

Mat

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Hey

Romans 13

All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God.2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded.

Mark 12:17


And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

Unless it goes against Gods word for that we may have to go to jail or be martyrs (extreme case).

 

[Dave-W]

I would like to open a thread about a politcal theory that i love, this is for know some other christian opinion about Christian Anarchism.

First off - having looked at the wiki article - is that it is a misnomer.
"Anarchy" and "anarchism"mean the LACK of any kind of civil structure, government, and law. If you try to set up a biblical theocracy, you do NOT have anarchy. Anarchy is lawlessness, something repeatedly condemned in the bible. Not having leadership "sheep without a shepherd" was considered a CURSE.

As Iconoclast has said, we are instructed by both Paul and Peter to obey the civil authorities. And the Caesar at that time was Nero, an insane despot (not unlike Kim Jong Un) who loved to pick on christians.

Beyond that, we are never instructed to set up our own theocratic government system. The only one biblically sanctioned was ancient Israel under the Judges. Not even the monarchy under David was what God wanted.

So NO, I do not believe such a system would be remotely biblical.

 

[tulc]

I was never a fan of his fiction but I did like that book of Tolstoy's.
tulc(always loses interest when vegetarianism rears it's head)

 

[Shempster]

I sort of follow a type of anarchism.
I think the Left/Right paradigms are foolishness, so I do not participate.
I follow the Law of Christ. If that law happens to break a law of society, then I'll pay my fine and hold no grudges.
I realize Paul said to obey the authorities but you all know darn well you would not obey a law that blatantly breaks the Law of Christ, right? Doesn't Paul also say that the world is RULED by Satan?
If Satan is basically running world governments then are we obligated to obey anyway?

Think this through. It's not black and white.

 

[pat34lee]

Doesn't Paul also say that the world is RULED by Satan?
If Satan is basically running world governments then are we obligated to obey anyway?

Think this through. It's not black and white.

Yes, it's in black and white.

Jeremiah 29:4-7
4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;
5 Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them;
6 Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished.
7 And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.

 

[Mathieu Lesnar]

Thank you all for your point of view, it's really interesting !

Personally, as Shempster say ''Paul also say that the world is RULED by Satan?'', and when i take a look at the actual politics (i live in Switzerland, the country of dirty money and precision weapon...) i totaly agree about this declaration. I have the feeling that as a Christian we need to inject the christianity in the politics.

And even if Romans 13 say that we need to follow the rules, why not (by a democratic way) try to create a governement based ONLY on god's law. It make more sens for me to follow holy laws than law based on money speculation, lobbys and corruption.

 

[Shempster]

Thank you all for your point of view, it's really interesting !

I have the feeling that as a Christian we need to inject the christianity in the politics.

That has been done throughout history. It always turns out very bad.

 

[pat34lee]

That has been done throughout history. It always turns out very bad.

No, when the people follow the bible rather than using it to gain
control over others, it leads to prosperity and great advances in
the sciences and the arts. This is why the USA has been a world
leader in all ways since its creation. And why it is falling now.

 

[Shempster]

No, when the people follow the bible rather than using it to gain
control over others, it leads to prosperity and great advances in
the sciences and the arts. This is why the USA has been a world
leader in all ways since its creation. And why it is falling now.

In all humbleness I don't see it that way. OK, the history books make it sound like that but this country was founded on free labor from unwilling participants after the Europeans used "Divine Discovery" to wipe out nearly an entire race of natives.

 

[pat34lee]

In all humbleness I don't see it that way. OK, the history books make it sound like that but this country was founded on free labor from unwilling participants after the Europeans used "Divine Discovery" to wipe out nearly an entire race of natives.

No country has clean hands, but at least the founders tried
to build this country as much on biblical principles as they
were able.

 

[Christopher0121]

Based on the posts above, I'm not convinced that Christian Anarchism is completely understood.

Before we get into Christian Anarchism, we have to establish some Biblical concepts up front that are important to understanding its position.

- We know that God has ordained human government to restrain the evils of men and to punish wickedness.

- We know that we are to respect government authorities and give honor to whom honor is due.

- We are to pay our taxes.

- We are to obey the ordinances of man pertaining to the society we live in.

- We are to live peaceably with all men.

​

However, we are never commanded to give allegiance to, loyalty to, or absolute obedience to any earthly civil government. Paul (and Peter) both admonished that we respect the law and honor the powers that be. Essentially, we are not to be "hostile" towards earthly governments. We are to live peaceably within them. However, whenever it becomes clear that any earthly government has overstepped its God given boundaries, intruding into those things that are of God, we obey God over man.

Again, we are never admonished to give absolute allegiance or blind loyalty to any earthly government. There should be a natural tension between the nations of this world and the Kingdom of God. The Christian is allegiant to, loyal to, obedient to, the Kingdom of God over ALL else.

Now, given the nature of coercive governmental power down through the ages, it becomes problematic for Christians to be such fans of the civil government, the state. Many social evils we detest in our society are considered "liberties" granted to citizens by the civil government. Nation states wage war and demonize the enemy, leaving them so dehumanized, it is easy to forget, they are people to. It is easy to ignore the "collateral damage" and the innocent lives lost when we are so caught up waving a flag and chanting the anthems of our earthly nations.

Christian Anarchism addresses this.

It is my understanding that Christian Anarchists believe in the following. What additional points might need to be added? Or perhaps what points might any of you take issue with, and why?

Christian Anarchists believe in the following:

- Christian Anarchists believe that all human government is coercive and under the authority of Satan.

- Christian Anarchists believe that the Christian is a sovereign citizen of God's Kingdom.

- Christian Anarchists oppose church incorporation.

- Christian Anarchists oppose state minister's licensing.

- Christian Anarchists oppose state marriage licensing and "civil marriage".

- Christian Anarchists oppose voting.

- Christian Anarchists oppose all forms of state coercion.

- Christian Anarchists oppose war and violence.

- Christian Anarchists oppose taking oaths and testifying in court.

- Christian Anarchists oppose partisan politics in the church.

- Christian Anarchists oppose the notion that earthly civil governments can be "Christianized".

- Christian Anarchists tolerate civil laws in their society that are based on safety and the common good.

- Christian Anarchists oppose violent revolution.

- Christian Anarchists oppose pledging allegiance to any flag, state icon, or any earthly nation state.

- Christian Anarchists oppose institutionalized discrimination in all forms.

- Christian Anarchists oppose institutionalized church hierarchy.

- Christian Anarchists radically affirm the separation of church and state.

- Christian Anarchists prefer to meet in house churches and house church networks.

- Christian Anarchists believe that the core of Christian teaching is loving God and loving one's neighbor.

- Christian Anarchists believe that marriage and family should be "self-governing".

- Christian Anarchists advocate for home schooling.

- Christian Anarchists believe that intentional community is the manifest spiritual Kingdom of God.

- Christian Anarchists believe in sharing their lives, possessions, and resources for the common good of their Christian community.

- Christian Anarchists believe in creation care and living in harmony with nature.

- Christian Anarchists believe in voluntaryism, mutualism, and the non-aggression principle.​

In short, the Christian Anarchist seeks to minimize, or eliminate, any entanglements with all earthly states or governments. In Christian Anarchism, each Christian is challenged to wage this "one person revolution" in order that they might experience the fullness of the Kingdom of God in their daily lives.

Christian Anarchists profess the motto, "No King but Christ!"

Defined:

Christian = Disciple of Jesus
Anarchism = Independence from all earthly civil authority

 

[Norman70]

I was thinking of starting a thread on Christian Anarchism but this will do fine. Aqùila0121 has provided me with all that I agree with. I do not think I will ever call myself one, as soon as we attach a label to ourselves it becomes institutionalised.
My wife and myself are not members or regular churchgoers of any established church or denomination, we belong to the universal church of Christ. This anarchical fellowship was the way the early Christians held their meetings, as described in Acts 4:32-37. There was authority, the Apostles knew the Scriptures and all about Jesus, but there was no leadership
My wife came out of the SDA Church, one reason being their insistence on tithing, and the large salaries of the governing members.
I could write lots more!

 

[tulc]

Based on the posts above, I'm not convinced that Christian Anarchism is completely understood.

Before we get into Christian Anarchism, we have to establish some Biblical concepts up front that are important to understanding its position.

- We know that God has ordained human government to restrain the evils of men and to punish wickedness.

- We know that we are to respect government authorities and give honor to whom honor is due.

- We are to pay our taxes.

- We are to obey the ordinances of man pertaining to the society we live in.

- We are to live peaceably with all men.

​

However, we are never commanded to give allegiance to, loyalty to, or absolute obedience to any earthly civil government. Paul (and Peter) both admonished that we respect the law and honor the powers that be. Essentially, we are not to be "hostile" towards earthly governments. We are to live peaceably within them. However, whenever it becomes clear that any earthly government has overstepped its God given boundaries, intruding into those things that are of God, we obey God over man.

Again, we are never admonished to give absolute allegiance or blind loyalty to any earthly government. There should be a natural tension between the nations of this world and the Kingdom of God. The Christian is allegiant to, loyal to, obedient to, the Kingdom of God over ALL else.

Now, given the nature of coercive governmental power down through the ages, it becomes problematic for Christians to be such fans of the civil government, the state. Many social evils we detest in our society are considered "liberties" granted to citizens by the civil government. Nation states wage war and demonize the enemy, leaving them so dehumanized, it is easy to forget, they are people to. It is easy to ignore the "collateral damage" and the innocent lives lost when we are so caught up waving a flag and chanting the anthems of our earthly nations.

Christian Anarchism addresses this.

It is my understanding that Christian Anarchists believe in the following. What additional points might need to be added? Or perhaps what points might any of you take issue with, and why?

Christian Anarchists believe in the following:

- Christian Anarchists believe that all human government is coercive and under the authority of Satan.

- Christian Anarchists believe that the Christian is a sovereign citizen of God's Kingdom.

- Christian Anarchists oppose church incorporation.

- Christian Anarchists oppose state minister's licensing.

- Christian Anarchists oppose state marriage licensing and "civil marriage".

- Christian Anarchists oppose voting.

- Christian Anarchists oppose all forms of state coercion.

- Christian Anarchists oppose war and violence.

- Christian Anarchists oppose taking oaths and testifying in court.

- Christian Anarchists oppose partisan politics in the church.

- Christian Anarchists oppose the notion that earthly civil governments can be "Christianized".

- Christian Anarchists tolerate civil laws in their society that are based on safety and the common good.

- Christian Anarchists oppose violent revolution.

- Christian Anarchists oppose pledging allegiance to any flag, state icon, or any earthly nation state.

- Christian Anarchists oppose institutionalized discrimination in all forms.

- Christian Anarchists oppose institutionalized church hierarchy.

- Christian Anarchists radically affirm the separation of church and state.

- Christian Anarchists prefer to meet in house churches and house church networks.

- Christian Anarchists believe that the core of Christian teaching is loving God and loving one's neighbor.

- Christian Anarchists believe that marriage and family should be "self-governing".

- Christian Anarchists advocate for home schooling.

- Christian Anarchists believe that intentional community is the manifest spiritual Kingdom of God.

- Christian Anarchists believe in sharing their lives, possessions, and resources for the common good of their Christian community.

- Christian Anarchists believe in creation care and living in harmony with nature.

- Christian Anarchists believe in voluntaryism, mutualism, and the non-aggression principle.​

In short, the Christian Anarchist seeks to minimize, or eliminate, any entanglements with all earthly states or governments. In Christian Anarchism, each Christian is challenged to wage this "one person revolution" in order that they might experience the fullness of the Kingdom of God in their daily lives.

Christian Anarchists profess the motto, "No King but Christ!"

Defined:

Christian = Disciple of Jesus
Anarchism = Independence from all earthly civil authority

...the above seems like a lot of definitions/rules for a group that doesn't believe in a lot of rules/definitions.
tulc(is just sayn')

 

[Norman70]

In the name of Jesus, thank you for showing interest in Christian Anarchism, tulc,
Definitions certainly, I see nothing wrong in trying to explain the meaning of a word which we use, but nothing is written in stone. Language is like that, it is why we talk to each other.
However, a Christian Anarchist would not see any of these statements as rules. They are simply that - statements - to give anyone reading them some sort of idea of Christian Anarchism. They are always open for discussion, and anyone trying to assert them as rules could not possibly be a Christian Anarchist. Rules are for authoritarians, for statists

 

[Norman70]

I supported the idea of authority in my first post here, as of authorship, or as of anyone who has knowledge or skills which others do not possess. A trained, skilled and experienced plumber has authority over me, I would not like to have to fix a leaky pipe. But an anarchist plumber would not claim he was always right, and a Christian Anarchist would never force his views on others. God never forces anyone, and He is not a punishing God. God is love.

 

[Norman70]

Authoritarians are people who use their authority to become leaders, and ultimately will use force to influence others. That's the history of human kind, and it's where we went wrong.

 

[Norman70]

Recently in my experience talking in RL I am finding it better not to mention my interest in Christian Anarchy. The more I study the Bible, the more I am able to gain people's iterest in my ideas. Everything is there to help me share my ideas.

 

[Newtheran]

Hi everybody !

I would like to open a thread about a politcal theory that i love, this is for know some other christian opinion about Christian Anarchism. If you don't know this political philosophy i put HERE the wikipedia's link for give you an introduction.

What do you think about that ? Do you think a country only ruled by the holy law can exist and work ? let me know your point of view, it will be a pleasure for me to read and talk about that.

Mat

How did that work in Eden? How did that work in Israel? It will one day work after Jesus returns, but the unfortunate reality of man's present fallen state is that our natures work against that.

...and as far as being free of all earthly authority, Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail agains His church in the Bible. Many misinterpret this verse to apologize for the Church of Rome, but in fact refers to the catholic (universal) church around the world.

 

[Christopher0121]

Again, many are not understanding "Christian Anarchism". Christian Anarchism is opposed to any earthly authority claiming ultimate authority over the Christian. As a result, Christian Anarchism is anti-statist in nature, favoring private voluntaryism, mutualism, and the non-aggression principle.

Anarchism isn't against having authority. It is against having an authority one doesn't consent to our voluntarily surrender to. Hence, the Christian Anarchist might very well oppose becoming too entangled with any civil government on earth, while voluntarily giving authority over to the elders of the church as it relates to their spiritual counsel, teaching, and guidance.

Again, one should refer to the works of Leo Tolstoy, especially his work, The Kingdom of God Is Within You, for a more in depth theological explanation of the theology.

In Christian Anarchism, the Christian isn't hostile to the state. However, the Christian Anarchist seeks to minimize, or eliminate, any entanglements with all earthly governments.