Christian anarchism

Norman70

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During my disabilities whilst in bed (I have to keep my foot elevated to ease the discomfort from my wound) I have spent some time here on CF reading and writing. I am moved now to start my own post in the Controversial Christian Theology Forum entitled Christian Anarchism. It will be more hard hitting, with no disrespect of course, rather than the excellent but moderate expositions in this thread. If anyone is interested, please look there. It will be my particular focus to question the motives of fellow Christians who attend established and denominational Churches. God bless.
 
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Norman70

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"Anarchy" and "anarchism"mean the LACK of any kind of civil structure, government, and law. If you try to set up a biblical theocracy, you do NOT have anarchy. Anarchy is lawlessness, something repeatedly condemned in the bible. Not having leadership "sheep without a shepherd" was considered a CURSE.
Your first sentence here seems to be a simple, and pejorative, direct quote from a dictionary. At least Wiki takes us a little beyond that. Anarchism opposed Marxism during the 19th century, and is continued to be studied as a recognisable political ideology at tertiary education levels in political science courses. All politicians should know about it, but along with the ignorant media and general public the word anarchy is only used by them pejoratively, for obvious reasons.
You use the phrase biblical theodicy and you seem to imply theodicy is a form of government. Theodicy is the philosophical, and theological, discussion of the problem of evil, no form of government need enter into the discussion.
Christian Anarchism is obviously biblical, and all forms of political anarchism address lawlessness. Very briefly, Christian Anarchists are not against law and order, neither are they against leadership or authority, but there is no compulsion through force or the threat of punishment. God is not a punishing God.
 
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Dave-W

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You use the phrase biblical theodicy and you seem to imply theodicy is a form of government. Theodicy is the philosophical, and theological, discussion of the problem of evil, no form of government need enter into the discussion.
Actually I said "Theocracy," not "Theodicy."

theo- = God; -cracy = rule of.

It is a type of government set up on the religious leadership.
 
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Magillacuddy

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Hi everybody !

I would like to open a thread about a politcal theory that i love, this is for know some other christian opinion about Christian Anarchism. If you don't know this political philosophy i put HERE the wikipedia's link for give you an introduction.

What do you think about that ? Do you think a country only ruled by the holy law can exist and work ? let me know your point of view, it will be a pleasure for me to read and talk about that.

Mat

Hey Mat,

I wouldn't trust any man made government. I think man has proven, without any doubt whatsoever, he cannot govern himself. Whether a christian, atheist or an alien put it together, it will ultimately fail man, with horror along the way.

The OT dispensation also proved not even God can herd volitional human cats, we are that stubborn and hard headed.

I think the only government that will work, is the Kingdom of God, the final one in the back of the book, where we are all one in Christ and in God.

As far as human ones go, I think this one (US) is best that I can tell. I like liberty and freedom, and don't want any nanny state telling me what is best for me. A more difficult life perhaps, but I am not under the thumb of a dictator, atheist or christian. And I also don't believe in rocking the boat, no anarchy, just rock your vote. Hopefully, there are more of us than there are of them.
 
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Norman70

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Along with all human governments I strongly appose a theocracy.
@Magillacuddy. Thank you, a useful contribution to this thread. Over the last few months, since coming out of hospital where I wrote many pages on Christian Anarchism, I have hit disillusionment. Having typed them out now (they were hand-written) I can circulate them but no-one seems impressed. I leave it all in God's hands, as you say.
 
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Yahkov

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I will be honest and say I don't even know what a perfect Christian theocracy would really even look like. Personally I believe we will just have to wait and see when Christ returns. I'd imagine it would be very strict, rightfully and peacefully so.

It is a very interesting idea though. Today we can see in America Christians have a strong stance opposing the rights to homosexual marriage. Yet I cannot tell you one Christian who opposes the right for practicing other religions in America. Interestingly though, both acts were punishable by death in Israel through laws given by God.

I can't even see modernized Christianity coming to an agreement with each other to establish such a theocracy. If we have a church that is so divided among doctrine, what makes us think a theocracy wouldn't end up like so? You'd probably have just another two party system, the Calvinist Party vs the Baptist Party. Give it 100 years and it will be the Calvinist Party vs the Reformed Baptist Party. Give 100 more years and you'd be back to the same question, what would Christian Anarchism look like? Then when Christ returns your question is answered.
 
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Yahkov

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No, when the people follow the bible rather than using it to gain
control over others, it leads to prosperity and great advances in
the sciences and the arts. This is why the USA has been a world
leader in all ways since its creation. And why it is falling now.

I highly doubt Christian Anarchism would look anything like America, even when America was young. Countless nations and empires have prospered and they had no belief in our God. The Persians most certainly did not. The Romans, one of the longest ruling empires, most certainly did not. Of course obedience to God leads to blessings, but this is not always the reason for every nations prosperity throughout history.

What part of America in the younger years was following Scripture? Killing the Native Americans and driving them out? Contributing and taking part in the Atlantic slave trade? Not quite sure where the Biblical justification is on these for a 'one nation under God'. About 30 years into our nations birth they already separated church and state. It took the United States nearly 100 years to abolish slavery. Thus not even 100 years, we had a civil war with brothers, Christians, on opposing sides. It took almost another 100 years to enforce constitutional and civil rights for African Americans. Over 90% of the time America has even been around, we've been at war. Lastly, I don't buy for a single second that America was ever meant to be a Christian nation. Just because Christian men form a country, that doesn't make the country Christian. I highly doubt America has experienced prosperity for such a great job we have done following Scripture.

Rather, I see America being used as a sword for justice on this earth. Not quite in agreement that it is because we have followed Scripture. God could use and has used any nation of which He pleases for justice.
 
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Norman70

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@Yahkov. Thank you for your informative posts but they have little to do with Christian Anarchism, I think. I say again, CA is not a theocracy, which is a form of human government. I am no longer associating myself with the label of being a Christian Anarchist, but I remain privately interested with my wife, and God of course (where two or more are gathered......), seeing it as the best representative theology of true Christianity. Attach a label in this world and it soon becomes corrupted. I try to be a member of the universal church of Christ, with no institutional authority or established or denominational Church.
 
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Christopher0121

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...the above seems like a lot of definitions/rules for a group that doesn't believe in a lot of rules/definitions. :wave:
tulc(is just sayn') :sorry:

LOL

Good point.

But that's a common misconception about anarchists and anarchism. Anarchists don't believe resisting all authority. They believe in resisting all "coercive and unjustified" authority. They believe that the only justified authority is any non-coercive authority one freely chooses to submit to. For example, if a group of anarchists formed a community with co-ops and shared income to provide for every member's basic needs, such an association is voluntary and wouldn't violate anarchist principles.

When dealing with civil earthly governments, we are typically never asked if we wish to submit to their authority or not. They also have a monopoly on the use of force and coercion that suits their maintaining power. To resist them can bring fines, incarceration, or even death. Therefore, anarchists feel they are unjustified authorities. Many anarchists believe in revolutionary measures to topple these unjustified authorities. The "Christian anarchist" engages in peaceful and legal (as much as is humanly possible) avoidance and resistance to human regulation and coercion. The communities Christian anarchists would form are peaceful and voluntary. Many would comply with most ordinances unless they violated their Christian faith and/or practice.
 
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Christopher0121

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@Yahkov. Thank you for your informative posts but they have little to do with Christian Anarchism, I think. I say again, CA is not a theocracy, which is a form of human government. I am no longer associating myself with the label of being a Christian Anarchist, but I remain privately interested with my wife, and God of course (where two or more are gathered......), seeing it as the best representative theology of true Christianity. Attach a label in this world and it soon becomes corrupted. I try to be a member of the universal church of Christ, with no institutional authority or established or denominational Church.

Most Christian Anarchists will agree with your sentiment because they feel that Christian Anarchism is simply a true and biblical way of Christian living in this fallen world with it's fallen societies and governments. To live, believe, and practice one's faith in this manner is simply "Christian". And Christians should be known for not loving the world or being friends with the world and it's systems. So, Christianity is inherently anarchist. Which... makes it dangerous to most earthly systems of power.

I've also began to not to readily identify myself as a "Christian anarchist". And politically, I typically answer that I'm more "libertarian" accept on a very few issues. We know Christ will put down all earthly governments. It isn't our job to put them down. It's our job to try to live peaceably with them, and to love government officials as we'd love any neighbor.
 
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Norman70

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@Aquila0121. Excellent posts again, I guess all we can do is wait for the Second Coming of Christ. Fairly recently I have read about intentional communities. I am old now, but if I had heard about them in my early 20's I would have attempted to join one, where they pooled their resources and lived below the tax threshold of the country in which they had settled.
 
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Christopher0121

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@Aquila0121. Excellent posts again, I guess all we can do is wait for the Second Coming of Christ. Fairly recently I have read about intentional communities. I am old now, but if I had heard about them in my early 20's I would have attempted to join one, where they pooled their resources and lived below the tax threshold of the country in which they had settled.

Amen. I'm going on 44 and I have a lady love and two children. I also have a career as a Police/Emergency Dispatcher. However, if when I were younger I had heard of these intentional communities, especially before starting a family, I'd have been 100% all about it. lol
 
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J03y

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Hi everybody !

I would like to open a thread about a politcal theory that i love, this is for know some other christian opinion about Christian Anarchism. If you don't know this political philosophy i put HERE the wikipedia's link for give you an introduction.

What do you think about that ? Do you think a country only ruled by the holy law can exist and work ? let me know your point of view, it will be a pleasure for me to read and talk about that.

Mat
I have played with the idea of anarchism in my political framework and in terms of the achieving the millenium, as it is essentially stateless from the framwork of functioning nationstates today as in I would seek their absence. However, I still recognize a state as such, that of God's Kingdom which is not yet of this world, Christ's law will rule this world for the Millenium (I'm not yet decided if that's a literall 1,000 years or not)before the tribulation.
 
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Norman70

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I have just read a scholarly review of 1 Samuel, a favourite Chapter for Christian Anarchists. These scholars (not Christian Anarchists!) say there is some ambivalence exhibited by the authors concerning the position of God towards human authority. God's authority remains unquestionable of course, but the dilemma remains whereby He tells Samuel to warn the Israelites of the dangers of having a human king, and yet still instructs Samuel to give them one. This, the scholars say, justifies insritutionalism and state authority (that is authoritarianism) and is ordained by God. Are well, our rulers and scholars are only human.
The scholars say this is connected with God’s covenant with His people and that all human kings into the future will be servants of God and then there would be no cruelty, no human society based on punishment, and no wars.
Well, we are still waiting, I wonder why? (That is a rhetorical question, of course).
 
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