Five Misconceptions About Calvinism

[Meowzltov]

Are you a Universalist?

No. I believe in free will. I believe that some hate authority and literally choose hell rather than be under God's thumb. But there is no real litmus test to know who is going to hell.

 

[Meowzltov]

If 10 people shoplift from a store and are caught on camera doing so, is it unjust if the store owners son pays for the stolen goods of one of the people, asking his father to forgive them and accept his payment for what they stole?

In such a case, you have something voluntary going on. It is a case of mercy tempering justice, not a case of injustice.

 

[Meowzltov]

That didn't answer the question.

In your system, does He have to create those He knows He'll send to hell?

I'm not going to answer a non sequitur.

 

[Hammster]

What have they done to be loved any less than anyone else?

Part of justice is treating everyone with the same even hand. You don't give someone preferential treatment. I don't say to one son, you spilled milk, you are grounded for two weeks! and to another son, you spilled milk, but it's ok I love you. That would be playing favorites. And when I am in charge of groups of any sort, whether they are my third grade class or my men's group therapy, the rule is if you bring anything special, you can't bring it for just some, you have to bring it for everyone.

What have they done to be loved less? Is that a serious question?

 

[Hammster]

I'm not going to answer a non sequitur.

Nice dodge.

 

[Meowzltov]

What have they done to be loved less? Is that a serious question?

Of course it's a serious question. What have they done to deserve to be loved less than those who are saved? There should be some criteria. If it's random, it's unjust. It is shocking to me that Calvinists don't understand this obvious point.

 

[Hammster]

Of course it's a serious question. What have they done to deserve to be loved less than those who are saved? There should be some criteria. If it's random, it's unjust. It is shocking to me that Calvinists don't understand this obvious point.

It's shocking that you think anyone deserves to be loved at all.

 

[Meowzltov]

Nice dodge.

You can always try to convince me its not a non sequitur by explaining to me the relevance of the question.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Of course it's a serious question. What have they done to deserve to be loved less than those who are saved? There should be some criteria. If it's random, it's unjust. It is shocking to me that Calvinists don't understand this obvious point.

Why was Jesus nailed to a wooden cross?

 

[Meowzltov]

Why was Jesus nailed to a wooden cross?

To pay the cost for the sins of all the world, so that any person could choose to repent, confess, be baptized, and enter into new life in Jesus Christ, being restored into communion with the Father through the Holy Spirit.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

 

[jimmyjimmy]

To pay the cost for the sins of all the world, so that any person could choose to repent, confess, be baptized, and enter into new life in Jesus Christ, being restored into communion with the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Is sin really that bad that God had to die for it?! Why didn't He just forgive people's mistakes?

 

[Meowzltov]

Is sin really that bad that God had to die for it?! Why didn't He just forgive people's mistakes?

I trust that God knew what he was doing. The Bible uses "redeemed" and atoned.

 

[Meowzltov]

Is sin really that bad that God had to die for it?! Why didn't He just forgive people's mistakes?

I guess if I had to put it into my own words, although I don't believe in Total Depravity, sin is bad enough that we are out of harmony with God, with others, with nature, and with ourselves. And though we try, we cannot restore ourselves to harmony.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I guess if I had to put it into my own words, although I don't believe in Total Depravity, sin is bad enough that we are out of harmony with God, with others, with nature, and with ourselves. And though we try, we cannot restore ourselves to harmony.

Do you believe that some people are going to be eternally condemned for being "out of harmony"?

 

[Meowzltov]

Do you believe that some people are going to eternally condemned for being "out of harmony"?

Yes. Absolutely. Although the way I see it, it's their own choice. God is basically giving them what they've asked for.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I guess if I had to put it into my own words, although I don't believe in Total Depravity, sin is bad enough that we are out of harmony with God, with others, with nature, and with ourselves. And though we try, we cannot restore ourselves to harmony.

Sin is that bad, yet you act as if men are morally neutral in all of your previous posts here. You've acted as if it is no big deal, the rebellion against Creator.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Yes. Absolutely. Although the way I see it, it's their own choice. God is basically giving them what they've asked for.

I agree.

So, God is giving them what they want, yet just a few posts back, you claim that God is unfair for not saving all men. If people do not want Him, why is it unfair that He give them what they want? Can you explain how that makes Him a moral monster?

 

[Meowzltov]

I agree.

So, God is giving them what they want, yet just a few posts back, you claim that God is unfair for not saving all men. If people do not want Him, why is it unfair that He give them what they want? Can you explain how that make Him a moral monster?

Because in that scenario, they weren't choosing. God was NOT giving them what they wanted, because they had no capacity to want anything other than what God determined--it was God determining, not them.

 

[Meowzltov]

Sin is that bad, yet you act as if men are morally neutral in all of your previous posts here. You've acted as if it is no big deal, the rebellion against Creator.

Like I said, we are not totally depraved. All it takes for us not to enter heaven is for us not to be perfect.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Because in that scenario, they weren't choosing. God was NOT giving them what they wanted, because they had no capacity to want anything other than what God determined--it was God determining, not them.

As I said earlier, that's not a position that reflects what the vast majority of Calvinists think.

We think that God saves some and leaves the rest to their own desires. Men who are saved have no one to thank but God, and men who are lost have no one to blame but themselves. They weren't coerced into their choices.