Humans did NOT evolve from Apes...

[miknik5]

That is what most Christians (if not all) should believe

 

[Speedwell]

is it that GOD created out from nothing

The "nothing" being a soupy watery disorganized empty/void mass

Which, technically, would be creation ex materia.

 

[miknik5]

Which, technically, would be creation ex materia.

What is the difference?

I am seriously asking you to explain

 

[Speedwell]

What is the difference?

I am seriously asking you to explain

A "a soupy watery disorganized empty/void mass" is not nothing.

 

[miknik5]

What would you define heaven (before the firmament) to be

Is it material or is it an open unorganized/unstructured....

expanse

 

[Speedwell]

What would you define heaven (before the firmament) to be

Is it material or is it an open unorganized/unstructured....

expanse

An "expanse" would not be nothing either. But an answer to your question, I have no idea. It's not even an important question, in my opinion, except for theologians, who like to speculate about such things. That God made the universe is enough for me, however He did it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Limit HIM?

I don't think it is I who is limiting HIM


Doesn't the "goal posts" continue to move as new physical evidence is discovered

And if its not discovered to alter a theory, a theory still remains a theory correct?

With the possibility of changing as new info, data is discovered?

A scientisr can only go back as far as the available and physical data available to him

He can't do back to "in the beginning" prior to any matter existing

No, there is no "goalpost" shifting in the sciences. That term arises when someone keeps changing their demands. The goal of scientists is very constant, simply to understand the world that we live in.

Right now the available data covers a good portion of Earth's 4.55 billion year history.

There are mountains of evidence for the theory of evolution. I have yet to see any valid evidence for creationism.

 

[miknik5]

An "expanse" would not be nothing either. But an answer to your question, I have no idea. It's not even an important question, in my opinion, except for theologians, who like to speculate about such things. That God made the universe is enough for me, however He did it.

Yes
It's a very important question

GOD made the universe after HE divided and bordered the heavens

 

[miknik5]

An "expanse" would not be nothing either. But an answer to your question, I have no idea. It's not even an important question, in my opinion, except for theologians, who like to speculate about such things. That God made the universe is enough for me, however He did it.

How is an expanse any thing?

 

[miknik5]

No, there is no "goalpost" shifting in the sciences. That term arises when someone keeps changing their demands. The goal of scientists is very constant, simply to understand the world that we live in.

Right now the available data covers a good portion of Earth's 4.55 billion year history.

There are mountains of evidence for the theory of evolution. I have yet to see any valid evidence for creationism.

"Right now"
That is the key word

However, for the scientist, as additional evidence is discovered, the "goal post" has to shift to account for this new information

Therefore there is always a possibility of a theory changing

we who believe in GOD as the starting point aren't shifting the goal posts. We have remained constant in that TRUTH

The "goal posts" are there (in a narrower sense to the scientist who has to base his studies on what is given within that framed area

But it will keep shifting outward until it accounts for all the information which is not right now available for the scientist who bases his study and perception on the physical evidence given him at that present time

I'm
Sorry

I understand the typical nuance of that innuendo "shifting the goal posts "

But you see it as if we are trying to trap you

And you arent seeing it from the point of the one who knows GOD as the ORIGINAL DESIGNER/CREATOR of all things?

HE's the starting point
Scientists keep backing into what they are given as they are given it

And if new physical evidence is not given...
It still doesn't change the TRUTH about GOD

 

[miknik5]

We're not changing the goal posts

We standing on ONE CONSTANT UNCHANGING TRUTH: GOD

We are where we're supposed to be


We're waiting for others to get there

 

[Subduction Zone]

"Right now"
That is the key word

However, for the scientist, as additional evidence is discovered, the "goal post" has to shift to account for this new information

Therefore there is always a possibility of a theory changing

we who believe in GOD as the starting point aren't shifting the goal posts. We have remained constant in that TRUTH

The "goal posts" are there (in a narrower sense to the scientist who has to base his studies on what is given within that framed area

But it will keep shifting outward until it accounts for all the information which is not right now available for the scientist who bases his study and perception on the physical evidence given him at that present time

I'm
Sorry

I understand the typical nuance of that innuendo "shifting the goal posts "

But you see it as if we are trying to trap you

And you arent seeing it from the point of the one who knows GOD as the ORIGINAL DESIGNER/CREATOR of all things?

HE's the starting point
Scientists keep backing into what they are given as they are given it

And if new physical evidence is not given...
It still doesn't change the TRUTH about GOD

You are not using that phrase correctly or consistently. "Moving the goalposts" refers to when a person demands that a certain condition is met and then when it is that person changes his demand.

For example when a person demands an example of transitional fossils or forms and they are supplied and then the person changes his demands. Most often creationists move the goalposts all the way to abiogenesis, at which point they have effectively admitted that they have lost.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We're not changing the goal posts

We standing on ONE CONSTANT UNCHANGING TRUTH: GOD

We are where we're supposed to be


We're waiting for others to get there

Sorry, but you are. Just because you do not understand a phrase does not mean that you are not guilty of that sin.


By the way, if you want to make such claims that burden of proof is upon you to support those claims. That is the way it works in the real world.

 

[Speedwell]

Yes
It's a very important question

GOD made the universe after HE divided and bordered the heavens

So? How did He do it? Ex materia, ex nihilo or ex deo?

 

[Speedwell]

How is an expanse any thing?

Neither space nor time nor matter can be nothing. It is my understandiing that space-time and mass/energy, neither can exist without the other. In any case, the space-time manifold, even if empty of mass/energy, is not nothing.

 

[miknik5]

Neither space nor time nor matter can be nothing. It is my understandiing that space-time and mass/energy, neither can exist without the other. In any case, the space-time manifold, even if empty of mass/energy, is not nothing.

Without HIS providing the lights for seasons and to measure time, and setting up a firmament as a boundary and border, it was a timeless immeasurable nothingness

 

[miknik5]

Genesis 1
Here is the description :

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2Now the earth was

unformed ( no defined boundary)

and void, (empty)


and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

 

[Speedwell]

Genesis 1
Here is the description :

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2Now the earth was

unformed ( no defined boundary)

and void, (empty)


and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

Waters, huh? And where did the waters come from?

 

[Aman777]

An "expanse" would not be nothing either. But an answer to your question, I have no idea. It's not even an important question, in my opinion, except for theologians, who like to speculate about such things. That God made the universe is enough for me, however He did it.

Adam's firmament was a solid object beaten out like metal. The Hebrew meaning is:

to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out, stretch

1. (Qal)
   1. to stamp, beat out
      one who beats out (participle)
   2. (Piel) to overlay, beat out (for plating)

Adam's firmament had a top with an expanse which could open and did and when it rained for 40 days and nights the firmament began to sink, releasing the Ark into Lake Van, Turkey some 11k years ago. Some say it sounds like a Spaceship but to me, it sounds like a Submarine. Today, it is at the bottom of the Lake and it is empirical evidence of life BEFORE the big bang. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

Waters, huh? And where did the waters come from?

Good catch. Water comes from Air which was one of the creation elements God would use to make a physical world. Genesis correctly shows that water was not "created" but came into being from the air. Jesus mixed the air, and dust with water and made Adam like the Potter molds clay. Gen 2:4-7 God Bless you