Humans did NOT evolve from Apes...

[Aman777]

Adam, the first Human, made in the likeness of the Lord, with a mind like God's, Gen 3:22 is closer to God than Angels, who we will have dominion or rule over, after Jesus returns. Gen 1:28 Here's the order, Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, in Christ Bodily, then mankind, then Angels, then the sons of God (prehistoric people) then all other living creatures. That's God's Truth, Scripturally. Adam was made the 3rd Day long BEFORE the plants, herbs, trees, rain and EVERY other living creature, Gen 2:4-7 making it impossible that Humans could have possibly evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. Science has incorrectly classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans (descendants of Adam). That's God's literal Truth Scripturally, scientifically and historically. God Bless you

 

[Kenny'sID]

I agree, however there are the Atheists that don't believe in a God to begin with, and you tell them they have no dog in the fight then, and you get the argument they don't want it taught to the kids in school. But they do want evolution taught, something they will claim is fact, when it is far from it.

Then there are the Christians that state they simply have a different understanding of Genesis than us.

Introduce the argument, the Genesis account is pretty cut and dried, then you will likely get the "that part of the bible cannot be taken literally" defense, happens all to often. Not certain how they determine what can and cannot be taken literally, but me? I can usually, if not always tell if scripture is literal or not.

So, depending on how many are debate weary...get ready.

 

[Halbhh]

While I do not know for sure, I know for sure that we *did* evolve from apes if God meant for us to. I know that. We aren't told how long the days in Genesis 1 are, or whether there is any time between some or all of them. In Genesis chapter 2, "day" is clearly not a 24 hour day, merely. Why would "day" be different in the 2nd chapter than in the first, and that's only one of several things to consider. More to the point is how we are not told how much time is passing between any two days.

But please humbly may I ask you to refrain from asserting the first man was made on the 3rd day in Genesis 1, contradicting the text? After all, just look at verse 26.

 

[Kenny'sID]

We aren't told how long the days in Genesis 1 are,

We aren't told how long a year, month, hour/minute, or what a man is for that matter. So can I assume there is just as good a chance of a man being a mushroom?

A day is a day is a day, so to me, the question would be, is this agenda at work, or is there an actual reason to think a day may not be a...well...a day?

 

[Halbhh]

We aren't told how long a year, month, hour/minute, or what a man is for that matter. So can I assume there is just as good a chance of a man being a mushroom?

A day is a day is a day, so to me, the question would be, is this agenda at work, or is there an actual reason to think a day may not be a...well...a day?

Yes, here is my agenda -- to surrender defending an idea over reading with true openness. This helps us so much.

The messages I get from Genesis chapter 1 are *not* about trivialities about how much time passed, and which came first -- bushes or grasses, or whatever.

I get the message that the Lord our God created all that is, the entire universe. It is awesome.

I don't get some sort of agenda about asserting the days had no time between them or that the time passing during verse 1 is little or no time, or during verse 2, etc. That not what this is about.

Although I do know that if one is preaching a particular theory about Genesis chapter 1 -- or any other doctrine but the gospel alone -- and that doctrine or idea causes some teenager to fall away from faith -- I know that then Christ says it would be better if instead we instead had have millstone tied to one's neck and be cast into the sea -- a better fate.

So, if the teenager thinks the Earth is 4.55 bn years old, I will not disobey Christ and ignore that and risk killing their faith, and fail to preach the actual gospel, those words inside of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[Halbhh]

Yes, here is my agenda -- to surrender defending an idea over reading with true openness. This helps us so much.

The messages I get from Genesis chapter 1 are *not* about trivialities about how much time passed, and which came first -- bushes or grasses, or whatever.

I get the message that the Lord our God created all that is, the entire universe. It is awesome.

I don't get some sort of agenda about asserting the days had no time between them or that the time passing during verse 1 is little or no time, or during verse 2, etc. That not what this is about.

But the warning from Christ to *only* base our faith on the foundation of hearing and doing *His own words to us* -- that's Matthew 7:24-27 -- that is what will give you a way to endure -- to will keep your faith alive when the storms that *will* come during life come on you.

 

[Motherofkittens]

But evidence says we did.

 

[*LILAC]

The title of this thread =

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes, here is my agenda -- to surrender defending an idea over reading with true openness. This helps us so much.

Openness is good.

The messages I get from Genesis chapter 1 are *not* about trivialities about how much time passed, and which came first -- bushes or grasses, or whatever.

Are you saying the trivialities that you brought up were of no concern to you?

You seemed to think these trivialities were in some way connected to what exactly the message is. Like your concern that days may not be 24hrs for whatever your reason was.

I get the message that the Lord our God created all that is, the entire universe. It is awesome.

No disagreement there.

I don't get some sort of agenda about asserting the days had no time between them or that the time passing during verse 1 is little or no time, or during verse 2, etc. That not what this is about.

If you have something there you wish to discuss, we can, but when you say that's not what this is about, it seems you don't want to discuss what you yourself bring up. Understand my confusion on some of what you say?

Although I do know that if one is preaching a particular theory about Genesis chapter 1 -- or any other doctrine but the gospel alone -- and that doctrine or idea causes some teenager to fall away from faith -- I know that then Christ says it would be better if instead we instead had have millstone tied to one's neck and be cast into the sea -- a better fate.

I'm at a loss on that one. Are you saying not to teach *anything* for fear of the millstone? Or would you be afraid to teach for instance that a day doesn't necessarily mean a day when there is no evidence of otherwise? If so, I can understand that. Or are you saying to teach what the teen is comfortable with, like say...evolution, or a millions of years old earth?

So, if the teenager thinks the Earth is 4.55 bn years old, I will not disobey Christ and ignore that and risk killing their faith, and fail to preach the actual gospel, those words inside of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Oh, you are saying to let them believe what the world teaches, not the bible, in order to avoid the millstone. Are you seeing now how you may have that backwards? The truth of the Bible avoids the millstone, not teaching otherwise, or even not standing up for the truth when someone believes otherwise.

Seems to me that faith you don't want to risk killing should be a faith in what the Bible says..or the truth. Otherwise we could tell them anything they want to hear, as long as it doesn't destroy their faith, and that sounds rather dangerous.

 

[AV1611VET]

Humans did NOT evolve from Apes...

That is correct.

God created us from the dust of the ground ...

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

... and set us on our feet.

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright;

 

[Halbhh]

Seems to me that faith you don't want to risk killing should be a faith in what the Bible says..or the truth. Otherwise we could tell them anything they want to hear, as long as it doesn't destroy their faith, and that sounds rather dangerous.

Another very helpful and longer scripture on this is the chapter of 1 Corinthians 8 (which is also key to understanding several surprising things Pauls says elsewhere).

*If* (please do notice I'm saying 'if', because it's essential here) a completely innocent thing like speculating about possible things that could have happened, or any other innocent activity, turns out to be a real problem for someone of weak faith -- and there are many, many, many people in a large nation with weak faith, and this place here is a public billboard of vast size (please consider that) -- then if it turns out our completely innocent activity causes them to lose their faith -- 1 Corinthians chapter 8 -- then we should not do it Paul says.

Of course, any of us can make that kind of mistake, but once we become of aware of it, we hopefully can be more cautious. So....since God *could* unfold life on Earth in *any* manner He chose to, *any*, then if the...

public cultural standard....

is that the moon is over 4 billion years old, and this becomes widespread ......let's call it 'opinion'....you might like that word.

(notice that wrongly guessing the age of the moon is *not* sinful....Therefore, each of our viewpoints on the age of the moon are *not* sinful...)

THEN....by Paul's teaching, and Christ's, we should not trip people of weak faith on matters like this, because it is *Not*, not, key to salvation. That relies on *faith* in Christ. That's the thing, that precious faith *in Christ* that you and I must try to protect.

So, if someone needs me to wear a hat I would never wear, because that is a odd cultural need they have, then when I am with them, I will obey Christ's and Paul's instruction, and wear that silly hat, because the stakes are very high.

There IS A WAY though for you to continue just fine!

You can say "I think", and "this is my viewpoint", and even, for caution, you could say "this is a speculative idea I came up with", so that no one thinks one particular guess about Earth's history is 'gospel', and mistakes our guesses about what *isn't* clear in the scripture for scripture.

You have to ask yourself what you believe in relation to Christ. Do you believe in His commands, and His way, and His teaching, like in Matthew 7:24-27. If you do, then His teaching trumps everything.

 

[Aman777]

While I do not know for sure, I know for sure that we *did* evolve from apes if God meant for us to. I know that. We aren't told how long the days in Genesis 1 are, or whether there is any time between some or all of them.

Amen, but we are given a better understanding if we seek the agreement of what mankind has discovered which agrees with God's Holy Word. This is based on what God told Daniel:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

It's the way God hid His Truth from everyone except the people who live in the last days before Jesus returns at Armageddon. God told us His scientific Truth in Genesis and it agrees with the recently discovered Truths of mankind. ONLY God could hide His Truth in the future since only God can see the end from the beginning. He knew what the people of today are just now learning 3k years ago.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure:

*** In Genesis chapter 2, "day" is clearly not a 24 hour day, merely. Why would "day" be different in the 2nd chapter than in the first, and that's only one of several things to consider. More to the point is how we are not told how much time is passing between any two days.

The Days (Heb-yowm-periods of time) are Ages consisting of many Billions of years, in man's time. The evening and morning are the end and the beginning of these work periods. God has only 7 Days and the 7th is Eternity since it has no evening and no morning. We live today at the end of the present 6th Day of God's labor at Gen 1:27 since God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in Christ. Gen 1:28-31 is Prophecy of events which happen AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon.

*** But please humbly may I ask you to refrain from asserting the first man was made on the 3rd day in Genesis 1, contradicting the text? After all, just look at verse 26.

Verse 26 is the account of the time when Adam and Eve were BOTH created in God's Image, which is in Christ Spiritually. Details of this event are told in Gen 5:1-2 which shows that A&E were born again Spiritually after Cain killed Abel.

Adam was first made a living soul on the 3rd Day BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain. Gen 2:4-7 Trees, which GREW on the 3rd Day, Gen 1:12 were made AFTER Adam was made. Gen 2:8-9 This is confirmed in the following verse:

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Adam was born again on the 6th Day. Gen 1:26 & Gen 5:1-2 He could NOT have been "created" by the Trinity, Eternally, until the 6th Day since Eve was not made until the 6th Day. Gen 2:22 Adam was first made a living soul when Jesus (Lord God) made him from the dust. We are His kinds. Gen 2:4-7 and the last Adam was made an eternal Spirit by the agreement of The Trinity (God). Today, Adam is Their kinds or the kinds created to live with Jesus forever in God's perfect 3rd Heaven. God Bless you

 

[pshun2404]

Now I have studied this issue more deeply but just Google Yom and read the wiki article...

 

[Aman777]

Now I have studied this issue more deeply but just Google Yom and read the wiki article...

Amen. Now you know why the 7th Day is Eternity and has no end. God Bless you

 

[mark kennedy]

Now I have studied this issue more deeply but just Google Yom and read the wiki article...

Yom means day, and day means day the vast majority of the time and especially in Genesis 1:

The KJV translates Strong's H3117 in the following manner: day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full 8 always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x). (Day: Yom יוֹם BLB)
​

Something else I can Google for you?

 

[Speedwell]

Yom means day, and day means day the vast majority of the time and especially in Genesis 1:

The KJV translates Strong's H3117 in the following manner: day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full 8 always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x). (Day: Yom יוֹם BLB)
​

Something else I can Google for you?

It's a losing argument, anyway. There is no indication whatever that the author(s) of Gen 1 meant anything else but a regular 24-hour day, with no attempt to "encode" great ages or anything of the kind.

 

[mark kennedy]

It's a losing argument, anyway. There is no indication whatever that the author(s) of Gen 1 meant anything else but a regular 24-hour day, with no attempt to "encode" great ages or anything of the kind.

It's a losing argument alright, day means day in Genesis 1:

day, time, year

day (as opposed to night)
day (24 hour period)

as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1​

as a division of time
a working day, a day's journey (Day: Yom יוֹם BLB)
​

Over 2000 times it means day, just a normal day. It's specially emphasized in Genesis 1 that it is a regular day, 'as defined by evening and morning'. Yea it's a losing argument, I can't believe how hard some people try to avoid the obvious.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[AV1611VET]

Over 2000 times it means day, just a normal day.

I think in their zeal to make "days" look like "periods of time," they overlook the fact that the order of the creation events don't jive with evolution; so they're just compounding the problem.

But they never address that, and I can't say as I blame them.

I wouldn't either.

If I read a book on evolution, I'd pitch it in the trash; but then I wouldn't want to pollute the landfill.

I can't burn it, or they'd be all over me about contributing to global warming.

What's a creationist to do!?

 

[mark kennedy]

I think in their zeal to make "days" look like "periods of time," they overlook the fact that the order of the creation events don't jive with evolution; so they're just compounding the problem.

But they never address that, and I can't say as I blame them.

I wouldn't either.

If I read a book on evolution, I'd pitch it in the trash; but then I wouldn't want to pollute the landfill.

I can't burn it, or they'd be all over me about contributing to global warming.

What's a creationist to do!?

There was evening and morning the first day...etc. There is no getting around the clear language of the text. Ok, so they write a book about evolution, as a creationist I would probably agree with everything in it except for the point of origin. Maybe I'm not being clear, God created life and there is no evolutionary theory that is going to change that.

So what's a creationist to do? Most of them do nothing and I say God bless them. The only thing that matters is the source of the creation account and I dare say Moses was not there when God created the universe so how did he know? Maybe it runs contrary to popular convention both academic and scientific but I'm going way out on a limb here. Maybe God just told him. I know that's a stretch but it's the only possible explanation because none of us were there at creation. If that annoys Darwinians then so be it, they can take a hike.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Halbhh]

There was evening and morning the first day...etc. There is no getting around the clear language of the text. Ok, so they write a book about evolution, as a creationist I would probably agree with everything in it except for the point of origin. Maybe I'm not being clear, God created life and there is no evolutionary theory that is going to change that.

So what's a creationist to do? Most of them do nothing and I say God bless them. The only thing that matters is the source of the creation account and I dare say Moses was not there when God created the universe so how did he know? Maybe it runs contrary to popular convention both academic and scientific but I'm going way out on a limb here. Maybe God just told him. I know that's a stretch but it's the only possible explanation because none of us were there at creation. If that annoys Darwinians then so be it, they can take a hike.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Indeed, my own GUESS leads me in my GUESSING to take that literally (surprise!).

I may be wrong. It would not even matter. What matter is that we have real faith.

The point of Genesis chapter 1 is that God created all that is, and the wonder and majesty of it.

But like many people I have a guess about the (comparatively trivial) history of small details that are *not* in the text. My own speculation to go along with the other speculations.

I think (my guess) that Genesis chapter 1 was conveyed by a vision.
(see 1 Samuel chapter 3 -- "And the word of the Lord was rare in those days; there was no frequent vision." i.e, visions are how much of the Word was communicated to us).

And I think it was 6 visions, or 6 scenes in a vision, in order. And from the vision was written a best understood version of what was seen, as best possible, using words and ideas available.

So, my SPECULATION is this was a vision of actual days. Real.

Seen from the point of view of being on Earth, on the surface. And in sequence.

And separated in time. Real, actual days, far apart from one another. Representative of life unfolding on Earth.

I think the light on day one is our star the sun, but it is not visible until day 4 due to constant cloud cover on early Earth.

But....this next thing is more important: that my own speculative guessing is NOT of any great importance at all.

It's enough, and for me the essential, that I know that God is behind the establishment of our Universe, it's natural laws (physics), and thus all that we can see, everywhere.

So, when my brothers and sisters in Christ think of it in a different way than I do, I'm happy, and content, and I love them, and I do NOT need to correct them about things not in the Bible, like how much time passed during verse 1 or verse 2, etc. We seek to focus on the truly important instead, like how to "love your neighbor", and how to understand things in the New Testament we actually need to do.

I know that with God, it is this way:

1 “Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!

Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.

2 Why spend money on what is not bread,
and your labor on what does not satisfy?

Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
and you will delight in the richest of fare.

3 Give ear and come to me;
listen, that you may live.

I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.

4 See, I have made him a witness to the peoples,
a ruler and commander of the peoples.

5 Surely you will summon nations you know not,
and nations you do not know will come running to you,
because of the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.”

6 Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.

7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.