Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[stuart lawrence]

Read the parable again. The sheep was found when it repented. Jesus himself provides the explanation in v.7 - "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Does he not leave the ninety nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it

 

[dqhall]

I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

Jesus was entrusted with 12 disciples who had to leave paying work for extended periods of time to be his students. He was entrusted with teaching God's word. He had thousands of people going to listen to him. He showed those who had faith among them God's power to heal. He had women helping in his ministry, not only men. The women were allowed to speak and ask him questions (John 4). Jesus did not set out to acquire great personal wealth. In Matthew 8:19 A scribe came, and said to him, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” 20 Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes, and the birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.” (WEB). Of the twelve who followed Jesus, one was lost.

 

[SBC]

ChristianIssues said: ↑
I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

Actually the parable is: Luke 12: 16 - 40

Luke 41: Peter asking Jesus WHO that parable (Luke 12: 16 - 40) is applicable to;

Luke 41:
[41] Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?

Luke 42: Jesus responds with a question:

Luke 42:
[42] And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

What do you think of this parable?

The parable is about the division between men;
who serve themselves according to their will,
AND men
who serve God according to His Will.

The serving: is according to a mans "heart's desires". (v 34)

A man can not serve God according to Gods Will; without a CHANGED Heart.

A CHANGED Heart IS part of what occurs within a man WHEN he is saved.

So was the man / servant a servant of God or a servant of himself?

By what the man did; it is revealed he was a servant of himself, and thus not saved.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Dan61861]

I can completely understand a man who trusts in his own works believin that eternal life is not assured.

Personally, I have to believe eternal life is assured. I trust and believe the Lord will keep His promise. What He began in me, He will finish.

My faith is in Christ, His works and His righteousness...not my own.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

in the sower and seed parrable there is only one soil that is represents a saved person and that is the good soil that produces fruit all the rest were never saved IMO this is how I see it

The only saved people are those who produce a crop, thirty, sixty or a hundred times what was sown?
That would cut out an awful lot of people who go to church and believe they are saved.
In my view, anyone who understands and accepts the true message is saved, for only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to them:

But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word, and UNDERSTANDS it.
Matt13:23

 

[Dave M18]

The only saved people are those who produce a crop, thirty, sixty or a hundred times what was sown?
That would cut out an awful lot of people who go to church and believe they are saved.
In my view, anyone who understands and accepts the true message is saved, for only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to them:

But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word, and UNDERSTANDS it.
Matt13:23

not sure what you are saying ?? do you agree with me that only the good soil that produces fruit in the parable are saved or do you think some of the other soils represent saved people also?

 

[Oldmantook]

Does he not leave the ninety nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it

Indeed he does but Jesus' explanation of the parable is the most important detail because he teaches what the sinner/we must do if we stray like the sheep i.e., REPENT. No repentance = not being found = lost = no salvation.

 

[Hillsage]

Indeed he does but Jesus' explanation of the parable is the most important detail because he teaches what the sinner/we must do if we stray like the sheep i.e., REPENT. No repentance = not being found = lost = no salvation.

Like someone said earlier OSAS... Once Sheep Always Sheep. And it would be a poor shepherd who only felt responsible 'one time only' for the seeking/saving any of his dumb sheep IMO.

Edit; Actually, in a book I read on 'shepherding', it said a good shepherd breaks the legs of a rebellious sheep. And then carries it, keeping it close and from getting lost again/harm.

 

[stuart lawrence]

not sure what you are saying ?? do you agree with me that only the good soil that produces fruit in the parable are saved or do you think some of the other soils represent saved people also?

Two points.
Firstly, I have only met one or two Christians who denied themselves, persevered in the truth, and brought, thirty, sixty, or a hundred people to accept the true message they preached. Most Christians I have met, keep getting sidetracked from doing this by other things.
Secondly, according to Matthews account. The seed that fell on good soil refers to those who understand the message.
When I was a child, I could be naughty at times. I didn't always obey my parents rules. Between the times i broke the rules, and asked my parents forgiveness for doing so, I was never threatened with being evicted from the family home. Why not? Because I was my parents child and they loved me. I was a member of their family. I got chastised at times for disobedience, but never once did I believe my breaking the rules threatened my place in the family.
It seems many, from what I read, believe God has far less love for his children than my parents had for me. I don't recognise that as understanding the truth

 

[stuart lawrence]

Indeed he does but Jesus' explanation of the parable is the most important detail because he teaches what the sinner/we must do if we stray like the sheep i.e., REPENT. No repentance = not being found = lost = no salvation.

A true Christian will always come before God and ask his forgiveness when they err, as surely as night follows day. You wouldn't have to tell them they need to do it, they will naturally do it

 

[Oldmantook]

I can completely understand a man who trusts in his own works believin that eternal life is not assured.

Personally, I have to believe eternal life is assured. I trust and believe the Lord will keep His promise. What He began in me, He will finish.

My faith is in Christ, His works and His righteousness...not my own.

In Christ
Daniel

You fail to distinguish between works of the Law, works of the flesh which are those things done in our own strength which are condemned and do not save, and works of obedience to God which are never condemned and testify that a believer is saved. Works done out of obedience to the scriptures and leading of the Spirit are never condemned. Works demonstrate that we are saved and are the outward evidence of inward faith. That is why Js 2:24 states that we are JUSTIFIED by WORKS and not by faith alone and that faith without works is DEAD (Js 2:17). Faith and works are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Oldmantook]

A true Christian will always come before God and ask his forgiveness when they err, as surely as night follows day. You wouldn't have to tell them they need to do it, they will naturally do it

Really? Respectfully, where does it say that in the scriptures? The examples cited throughout Scripture testify otherwise. Adam & Eve who were created without sin, still sinned and hid from God not wishing to be exposed. The Israelites who were God's chosen people sinned repeatedly despite God's chastisement and patience. Jesus repeatedly tell the churches in Revelation to REPENT! If repentance/seeking forgiveness comes "naturally" as you claim, then there would no need for Jesus to tell believers to repent. A Christian will not always come before God and ask for forgiveness; that is a possibility but not certainty.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

It is very possible because salvation is not something anyone has until they get to heaven. We are saved from God's wrath (ie the lake of fire)

Wrong....we are saved from sin...mt1:21

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Wrong....we are saved from sin...mt1:21

Sin and its consequences (I.e. Death, both physical & spiritual) you don't "die" spiritually unless you get thrown into the lake of fire which won't happen until judgement day so yes, we are not ultimately saved until judgement day. Thanks

 

[Oldmantook]

Like someone said earlier OSAS... Once Sheep Always Sheep. And it would be a poor shepherd who only felt responsible 'one time only' for the seeking/saving any of his dumb sheep IMO.

Edit; Actually, in a book I read on 'shepherding', it said a good shepherd breaks the legs of a rebellious sheep. And then carries it, keeping it close and from getting lost again/harm.

Apparently you are unaware of the verb tense in Lk 15:7 as metanoounti translated as "repent" is a present tense participle which more accurately translates as "repenting." Therefore one must continue repenting (reflecting lifestyle of repentance) and not a 'one time only' seek/saving as you claim.

Citing anthropocentric examples to depict spiritual truth can be a risky thing. Just because a shepherd breaks a sheep's leg, does not guarantee that the sheep will not continue straying. A sheep that stubbornly persists in straying is slaughtered.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Sin and its consequences (I.e. Death, both physical & spiritual) you don't "die" spiritually unless you get thrown into the lake of fire which won't happen until judgement day so yes, we are not ultimately saved until judgement day. Thanks

Wrong again all men are born spiritually DEAD, and if they do not become saved by God...they go into second death....rev20:14....this is the second death.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I think our theologies are miles apart my friend. I have to say that I will stick with the 'standard' theology.

You do not understand the nature of biblical salvation to ask this question.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Wrong again all men are born spiritually DEAD, and if they do not become saved by God...they go into second death....rev20:14....this is the second death.

lol oooook, when you believe you may be given new life, but the same God who gave you life can take it away by throwing you into the lake of fire and he will if you do not continue in belief.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

@ICONO'CLAST in Galatians 5 Paul warns those BEIEVERS twice! Not once, but twice that if they fall away from Jesus they will die spiritually. So what kind of sense does it make to say OSAS? Paul himself did not believe it, how can you?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Really? Respectfully, where does it say that in the scriptures? The examples cited throughout Scripture testify otherwise. Adam & Eve who were created without sin, still sinned and hid from God not wishing to be exposed. The Israelites who were God's chosen people sinned repeatedly despite God's chastisement and patience. Jesus repeatedly tell the churches in Revelation to REPENT! If repentance/seeking forgiveness comes "naturally" as you claim, then there would no need for Jesus to tell believers to repent. A Christian will not always come before God and ask for forgiveness; that is a possibility but not certainty.

Well respectfully, there's no point in quoting the OC concerning this!
Christians are under a NC. And under the NC the law God desires you to keep is written in your mind and placed on your heart. If you wilfully transgress what is in your heart, your conscience must be seered, you will have no rest, and no peace until you come before your father in heaven and ask his forgiveness for your folly. And the true Christian loves God of course.
BTW
David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness/ justification apart from works
Rom4:6