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Biblewriter

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Sure. But if there was no independent validation by any of the recognized peer scriptural authorities of the day, who cares?
It was "the recognized peer scriptural authorities of the day" who demanded the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus. The concept of relying on such "authorities" is antithetical to scriptural teaching.
 
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BABerean2

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I did not claim I am correct. I proved what I said. The comments made by these other writers were made before people began to research the actual history of these doctrines, in response to the false accusations being made about them.

Although I am not aware of any papers Thomas Ice has yet published in regard to this new research, he has published his delight about and approval of the new book by William C. Watson, titled "Dispensationalism Before Darby."

And William C. Watson has personally encouraged me to publish a book containing my findings.

You also claimed that Irenaeus taught a pretrib removal of the Church, with the flimsiest of evidence.

You have claimed the importance of the New Covenant in modern Dispensational Theology, but have provided no evidence to confirm it.

You have yet to provide a source before Darby which taught that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church.

You seem to think that anyone who used the word "dispensation" before Darby, was a Dispensationalist. I have used the word "automobile" before, but that does not make me a Henry Ford.

.
 
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Biblewriter

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You also claimed that Irenaeus taught a pretrib removal of the Church, with the flimsiest of evidence.

You have claimed the importance of the New Covenant in modern Dispensational Theology, but have provided no evidence to confirm it.

You have yet to provide a source before Darby which taught that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church.

You seem to think that anyone who used the word "dispensation" before Darby, was a Dispensationalist. I have used the word "automobile" before, but that does not make me a Henry Ford.

.
I could not give an example of anyone teaching that modern Jews will come to salvation "outside the church," because I do not know of anyone who teaches this. But I will shortly, D.V., be posting hard proof that in the 1700s it was taught, and clearly taught, that the Jews would be brought back to the Lord after the church has been removed from this earth.

I do not consider the rest of your rant worth answering.
 
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Marilyn C

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The Body of Christ is made up of all those in the New Covenant.

Jer_31:31  "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—


Heb_8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

,

Hi BABerean,

You have written the scriptures yourself. See how they tell us that the `house of Israel` will also partake of the New Covenant - Christ.

Marilyn.
 
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jgr

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It wasf "the recognized peer scriptural authorities of the day" who demanded the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus. The concept of relying on such "authorities" is antithetical to scriptural teaching.
Our Lord recognized those authorities as nothing more than the spawn of Satan. Do you believe that the Wesleys et al qualify as such as well?
 
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BABerean2

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Hi BABerean,

You have written the scriptures yourself. See how they tell us that the `house of Israel` will also partake of the New Covenant - Christ.

Marilyn.

The first members of the New Covenant on the Day of Pentecost were Israelites.


Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 

Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 

Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 

Act 2:37  Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 
Act 2:38  Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
Act 2:39  For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." 
Act 2:40  And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 
Act 2:41  Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 

.
 
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jerry kelso

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The first members of the New Covenant on the Day of Pentecost were Israelites.


Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 

Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 

Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 

Act 2:37  Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 
Act 2:38  Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
Act 2:39  For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." 
Act 2:40  And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 
Act 2:41  Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 

.

baberean2,

1. They were Israelites because they came from Jesus day.

2. Jesus gave them the Great Commission to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel".

3. They knew Jeremiah 31:31-34 for Israel to receive the NC.
However, they didn't understand this was just the beginning of the mystery of the church for it was ratified at the cross Ephesians 2:14-15; 3:3-6.
It was not about the KoH message for Jesus told the disciples when they asked about the KoH being restored, he said it wasn't for them to know the times and seasons because only God knew Acts 1:6-7.
The other part of the KoH message is that all Israel would know all things and wouldn't have to be taught anything.
This didn't happen in the early church for Peter hadn't received the vision of the clean and unclean and Paul hadn't been to reveal it more clearly until the Corinthian church days.

4. Just like you you so conveniently left out Jeremiah 30:9 having a prophetic time frame in that context you also avoid mentioning the whole prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 that wasn't fulfilled at all.
The Jews knew what that scripture said but they didn't understand the mystery of the church beginning.
Peter knew the signs and knew what Joel said but he knew it wasn't a culmination of the KoH appearing though it seemed like it.
He was still confused when God gave the vision of the clean and unclean in Acts 10 when the Gentiles got saved and were made equals like them.

5. Peter was the rock whom Christ would build on Matthew 16:18.
This happened in that day but the keys to the KoH were not given to Peter in that day in actuality because the KoH reign hasn't begun.
Quit telling half of the context and leaving out the rest and get your history right and understand gradual revelation and how it unfolded in the early church.
Your posts are being deceptive and deceitful because of your dodging and omitting scripture and telling half but not the whole just so you can proclaim you are right to the scriptures though you are not. Quit being unfair in exegesis. Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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Just like you you so conveniently left out Jeremiah 30:9 having a prophetic time frame in that context you also avoid mentioning the whole prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 that wasn't fulfilled at all.

You need to tell that to the writer of the Book of Hebrews, since we find Jeremiah 31:31-34 copied word-for-word and bracketed at the beginning and end of the passage with verses making it clear that Christ fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34 during the first century.

Heb 8:6  But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. 
Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
Heb 8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— 
Heb 8:9  NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 
Heb 8:10  FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 
Heb 8:11  NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 
Heb 8:12  FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 
Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 

The UPPERCASE Text comes from the Old Testament.

Your claim that all of Jeremiah 31:31-34 has not been fulfilled is like your claim about "the time of Jacob's trouble", and your claim about the kingdom of heaven vs. the kingdom of God. It does not match up to the Bible.

.
 
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jerry kelso

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You need to tell that to the writer of the Book of Hebrews, since we find Jeremiah 31:31-34 copied word-for-word and bracketed at the beginning and end of the passage with verses making it clear that Christ fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34 during the first century.

Heb 8:6  But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. 
Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
Heb 8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— 
Heb 8:9  NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 
Heb 8:10  FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 
Heb 8:11  NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 
Heb 8:12  FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 
Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 

The UPPERCASE Text comes from the Old Testament.

Your claim that all of Jeremiah 31:31-34 has not been fulfilled is like your claim about "the time of Jacob's trouble", and your claim about the kingdom of heaven vs. the kingdom of God. It does not match up to the Bible.

.

baberean2,

1. Your interpretation.

2. The New Covenant was going to come either way whether Israel accepted the KoH offer or not for the church was presedestined before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4-5.
Israel and Judah were not united in their covenants or as a complete nation at the Day of Pentecost. There were still plenty of lawkeepers to prove that.
They are still not united and will not be till the end of the tribulation Ezekiel 37:16-28 when the Jewish remnant are gathered Matthew 24:31.
You try to get around this with your false spiritual Jew to the extreme theory and it can't be done.

3. Hebrews 8:10; God did not put all his laws into them as a nation otherwise there would be no reason to have them destroyed in 70 A.D.

4. Hebrews 8:11; the Jews didn't know everything and they were taught by the disciples and even they didn't know everything or all did not know the Lord.

5. Their sins will not be forgiven and remembered no more until the tribulation in the time of Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:9;Ezekiel 37:24.

6. The Old Covenant was already done away at Calvary 2 Corinthians 3:14; Colossians 2:14-15.
The Jews couldn't stand to see the law pass away but it happened, was happening and did happen in 70 A.D.

7. You have much to learn but you need to learn full context and how to properly reconcile the scriptures together in harmony and seek after the real truth not your opinion, what your perception is or denominational belief is. Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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baberean2,

1. Your interpretation.

2. The New Covenant was going to come either way whether Israel accepted the KoH offer or not for the church was presedestined before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4-5.
Israel and Judah were not united in their covenants or as a complete nation at the Day of Pentecost. There were still plenty of lawkeepers to prove that.
They are still not united and will not be till the end of the tribulation Ezekiel 37:16-28 when the Jewish remnant are gathered Matthew 24:31.
You try to get around this with your false spiritual Jew to the extreme theory and it can't be done.

3. Hebrews 8:10; God did not put all his laws into them as a nation otherwise there would be no reason to have them destroyed in 70 A.D.

4. Hebrews 8:11; the Jews didn't know everything and they were taught by the disciples and even they didn't know everything or all did not know the Lord.

5. Their sins will not be forgiven and remembered no more until the tribulation in the time of Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30:9;Ezekiel 37:24.

6. The Old Covenant was already done away at Calvary 2 Corinthians 3:14; Colossians 2:14-15.
The Jews couldn't stand to see the law pass away but it happened, was happening and did happen in 70 A.D.

7. You have much to learn but you need to learn full context and how to properly reconcile the scriptures together in harmony and seek after the real truth not your opinion, what your perception is or denominational belief is. Jerry kelso

Jerry,

When it comes to what you call the "spiritual Jew to the extreme theory", you are arguing with the Apostle Paul, instead of me.

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 
Rom 2:29  but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. 


Either you or Peter are confused about the unison of Judah and Israel on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 

Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 

Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 

On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 of the "men of Judea" and "men of Israel" became a part of the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13.



You are also very confused about the reason that members of the New Covenant do not need a human teacher. The reason is found below.

Joh 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 


As long as you continue to replace the children of the promise, with the children of the Flesh in Romans 9:6-8, you will never get it right.

.
 
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jerry kelso

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Jerry,

When it comes to what you call the "spiritual Jew to the extreme theory", you are arguing with the Apostle Paul, instead of me.

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 
Rom 2:29  but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. 


Either you or Peter are confused about the unison of Judah and Israel on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 

Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 

Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 

On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 of the "men of Judea" and "men of Israel" became a part of the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13.



You are also very confused about the reason that members of the New Covenant do not need a human teacher. The reason is found below.

Joh 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 


As long as you continue to replace the children of the promise, with the children of the Flesh in Romans 9:6-8, you will never get it right.

.

baberean2,

1. First of all, Roman's 2 is talking to the real Jew not Gentile.
V24; For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you as it is written.
V 25; to the Jew circumcision only profits if they kept the law. If the Jew broke the law their circumcision was made uncircumcision 1 Corinthians 7:19;Galatians 5:3.
V26; the uncircumcision (Gentiles from the Old Covenant) keep the righteousness of the law shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision.
V 27; uncircumcision (Gentiles) which is by nature if it fulfill the law judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? Matthew 12:41.
The Jews are being scolded for having been given the oracles of God Roman's 3:2 and they thought they had the advantage over the Gentiles who didn't have the covenants etc. and yet didn't keep the covenant.
James says, God is no respect of
persons. So if the Gentiles fulfilled whatever their revelation they had that was contained in the law later and when the law was in effect in Jonah's day and the Jews sinned then the Gentiles would be more righteous before God than the Jew who thought they were in the club because of having the covenants bestowed on them.
V 28: the one who is not a Jew is one outwardly but the real Jew is spiritual. This goes back to the historical Jew in Jesus day John 8:39.
The historical context in v 27-29 is about the ethnic Jew.
God has treated Gentiles and Jews the same if one kept their revelation they were given according to the redemptive plan despite if one had more revelation or not.
According to the Gentiles being spiritual Jews we might as call the Jews spiritual Gentiles.
Salvation has never been by physical genealogy.

2. Nobody is replacing the children of promise with the children of the flesh. That is just your false assumption to make an argument for your spiritual Jew theory to the extreme.

3. John 14:26 is talking about the church age and not the age of the KoH reign.

4. You are incorrectly using men of Israel as to account that the whole nation of Israel and Judah being one stick then or in the future KoH which never happened then.
You have no logic or understanding according to the scriptures according to their proper context.
I believe you are not even trying to understand the truth. It is just your opinion and denominational belief.
5.
If you think your POV is so right and if you think you don't ignore scriptures like you say everybody else does then why have you ignored the prophetic aspect of Jeremiah 30:9 4 times if not more.
The Bible says not to cast judgements if you can't get the mote out of your eye. For the love of God quit being unfair and untruthful to the whole context.
Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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First of all, Roman's 2 is talking to the real Jew not Gentile.

Jerry,

I hate to tell you this, but the Church at Rome was mainly a Gentile Church.


This is confirmed by Paul in telling the Church not to boast against the natural branches of the Olive Tree in Romans chapter 11.

Rom 11:18  do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 
Rom 11:19  You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 
Rom 11:20  Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 
Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 


I thought you already knew this fact...

.
 
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jerry kelso

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Jerry,

I hate to tell you this, but the Church at Rome was mainly a Gentile Church.


This is confirmed by Paul in telling the Church not to boast against the natural branches of the Olive Tree in Romans chapter 11.

Rom 11:18  do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 
Rom 11:19  You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 
Rom 11:20  Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 
Rom 11:21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 


I thought you already knew this fact...

.

baberean2,

1. Paul did address the Roman Church Roman's 1:7.
Paul also said that he wasn't ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

2. On the Day of Pentecost there were strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes Acts 2:10.
Acts 18:8; Crispus was the chief ruler of the synagogue and believed and many of the Corinthians believed because of it and was baptized.

3. I have told you before that there are immediate contexts as well as a book context.
You are not taking in consideration that the context in Roman's 2 is about different ways of being judged both Gentiles and Jews.
Romans 2:12-16 is about Gentiles and not Jews but verses 17-29 he is talking about Jews.
Vs. 26-27 shows the example of how God was not a respect of persons vs11 between the Jew and Gentile and if the gentile performed the law and the Jew didn't then where does genealogy and people with the covenants stand?
The Gentiles were not under the law unless they became proselyted.
Paul is defeating the Jews argument of being a spiritual Jew outwardly and not inwardly.
Paul wasn't proclaiming Gentiles directly to be a spiritual Jew. He was saying to the Jews you are only a real Jew if they were spiritual.
The Gentiles in the church that are haughty and think they are real Gentiles and not be a spiritual Gentile. Read Roman's 11:17-22.

4. The Covenants of Abraham and David that are specific promises to the Nation of Israel concerning the position of the KoH reign Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7;66:7-9; Daniel 12:1; Ezekiel 37:16-28 and being purged Daniel 9:24-27 in order to receive their gifts and callings Romans 11:25-29.

5. I believe in proper perspective of the complete context of all scriptures on the subject and harmonizing them and you don't and you are still ignoring Jeremiah's 30:7 prophecy perspective and it proves you are unfair and are being hypocritical and your posts for the most part are not credible. Jerry Kelso
 
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BABerean2

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The Covenants of Abraham and David that are specific promises to the Nation of Israel

Jerry,

You and the Apostle Paul cannot agree on anything today.

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 



Gal 3:26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 

Gal 3:27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 

Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 

Gal 3:29  And
if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 

I am Abraham's seed, through Christ, and heir to the promise.

.
 
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jerry kelso

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Jerry,

You and the Apostle Paul cannot agree on anything today.

Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 



Gal 3:26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 

Gal 3:27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 

Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 

Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 

I am Abraham's seed, through Christ, and heir to the promise.

.

baberean2,

1. 1 don't disagree with that but that has nothing to do with God's promises of Abraham and David specific to the nation of Israel in connection with their part in the KoH.
Again you give one part of a picture and leave out the other part.
The church has never had reference to Israel or Judah in the proper scriptures about the KoH reign and I have shown you scripture time after time and you refuse to believe it. Shame on your stubbornness.

1. Gentiles are Abraham's seed spiritually according to salvation Galatians 3:26-29.
Abraham didn't start the Gentile race but he did start the Jewish race.
Abraham being a native born Gentile from a heathen nation was a type to show Gentiles would be saved and be Abraham's seed spiritually.
This has nothing to do with the promises of National Israel to be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7;667-9, Daniel 12:1 and the specific land Genesis 12-15 which will be the land of Israel.
Once again, you don't have a clue what you are talking about and you still can't explain the prophetic scripture of Jeremiah 30:9 about David being raised up as King of Israel which harmonizes with Ezekiel 37:24. Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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Abraham didn't start the Gentile race but he did start the Jewish race.

Abraham was not Jewish.

Judah was one of the 12 sons of Jacob.

The New Covenant is about Grace, instead of race. (Matthew 3:9, 1 Timothy 1:4)

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jerry kelso

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Abraham was not Jewish.

Judah was one of the 12 sons of Jacob.

The New Covenant is about Grace, instead of race. (Matthew 3:9, 1 Timothy 1:4)

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baberean2,

1. One track mind and you don't understand context.

2. I never said the NC was of race. That is how little you pay attention or comprehend or maybe you do it on purpose so you can accuse me of saying something I didn't say.

3. Abraham was a gentile from the land of the Chaldeans. God called him out to be a father to many nations and exclusively one who would become the Jewish nation and Abraham's seed would be a stranger in the land that is not theirs and shall serve them;and shall afflict them 400 years Genesis 15:13.
Israel was Abraham's physical seed that came through Isaac the heir and not Ishmael the bond woman's son Genesis 11:10.
Jacob was the heir and not Esau Genesis 25:21-24 and this is when the twelve tribes of Israel who were Jacob's sons and came to fruition of who Moses led out of Egypt for they were strangers in the land.

3. God brought the Messiah through the Jewish line to bring forth the KoH reign on earth and to bring salvation to all men Isaiah 42:1-7
Judgement of Gentiles and upholding the elect which was Israel.
Matthew 2:6 was a reference to Isaiah 9:6-7. The government would be on the Messiah's shoulder and rule an everlasting kingdom on earth.
The problem was that Israel's covenant of the Davidic kingdom was conditioned by obedience and repentance of the nation.
Matthew 22:37-39 shows Israel rejected Christ and that was prophetic.
The church was predestined Ephesians 1:4 and came into the picture at Calvary.

4. Gentiles are Abraham's seed concerning salvation Galatians 3:19.
We are saved by grace and not works.
The law came because of Israel's sins so Calvary was always the destination and it happened so all men could be set free and on the same level and even in the same body of Christ known as the Church. Matthew 16:18.
The church hasn't done away with the KoH because the land has be restored and the restitution of all things.
At the same time the earthly calling of Israel is not done away with because they rejected him the first time or because the church came along and the grafting in of the Gentiles Roman's 11:25-29.

5. You can't change the scripture that says Physical Israel will be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Christ will rule from Jerusalem which which will be the capital of the earth Isaiah 2:1-4 when he shall take all the Kingdoms of this world become his Revelation 11:15.
Israel has to be saved by the New Covenant in the tribulation called the time of Jacob's trouble because there is only one covenant of salvation and that is the New Covenant Revelation 12:10;15:1-2.
Israel has to purged by tribulation
In the Great tribulation Daniel 9:24-27. This is why that Israel is preserved in the wilderness for the last 3.5 years and the Jewish remnant is scattered but will be preserved Revelation 12. This has nothing to do with the church of today.
We are presently being trained for the KoH through our suffering 2 Timothy 2:12.

6. We are Abraham's seed spiritually but the church has never been given the eternal promise of being at the head of the nations on earth through the Davidic line or the eternal promise of specific land that concern the head of the nations concerning Abraham's line.
These are the physical eternal promises in the Jewish line from Abraham and Davidic Covenants that were not promised to the present day church.

7. We are Abraham's seed spiritually which means being saved by grace and not works.
We will still rule and reign on earth Revelation 5:9-10 in the Davidic kingdom though in different capacities than that of Israel.
The families of the earth will be blessed from the nation of Israel in the KoH by reason of their earthly calling as head of the nations Genesis 12:2-3; Zechariah
14:20-11.
This is the proper perspective on the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants for Israel and the present church of today.
Just like the law of Moses could not prevent the full grace of God through the finished work of Christ at the cross to save all men, the physical promises of the physical line of Israel will not be prevented because they are eternal promises to the nation's seed and that is why they will come to obedience to the New Covenant of the lamb.
David will be their king in the KoH Jeremiah 30:9;Ezekiel 37:24.
The Jews and Gentiles are Abraham's seed spiritually by grace and not works. This has nothing to do with race.
The physical nation of Israel with being united with Judah as one stick Ezekiel 37:16-28 and David being their King Ezekiel 37:24 and position of being at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 are all physical line of Israel under the specific contexts of the Abrahamic Genesis 12-15 and Davidic Covenant 2 Samuel 12:14 & 115-16; 1 Chronicles 28:2-7 and not to the church and that is scriptural. Jerry kelso
 
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BABerean2

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The church hasn't done away with the KoH because the land has be restored and the restitution of all things.
At the same time the earthly calling of Israel is not done away with because they rejected him the first time or because the church came along and the grafting in of the Gentiles Roman's 11:25-29.

Jerry,

At the restitution of all things the curse will be removed.
This rotten, sin-cursed world will be no more.


Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 

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SeventyOne

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Jerry,

At the restitution of all things the curse will be removed.
This rotten, sin-cursed world will be no more.


Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

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Makes one wonder why there will still be death and sinners (Is 65:20) and the continued curse upon the serpent (Is 65:25) in the new world (IS 65:17).
 
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BABerean2

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Makes one wonder why there will still be death and sinners (Is 65:20) and the continued curse upon the serpent (Is 65:25) in the new world (IS 65:17).

When faced with a passage that says there will be no more crying and then someone claims that one verse says there will still be death, when numerous New Testament passages say otherwise, we would hope that we might examine again this one verse, instead of reinterpreting the rest of the Bible to make it fit this one difficult Hebrew verse.

Any interpretation which produces a conflict with a majority of other passages, cannot be correct.


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