On Free Will

[Wordkeeper]

This thread is certainly evidence that there are two types of people in the world, those who are seeking to justify themselves, and those who are justified by Christ.

Every verse in the Bible is packed with implications, needs to be expanded. Else Christ would not have taught the need for praying for revelation from God every day.

Of course the believers in the new testament already knew the context mostly, so they did not have to have a full laying out of the word "justification" every time it was used. This is called synecdoche, metonymy.

just as you don't need to expand on the terms supralapsarian, infralapsarian, presuppositional/evidential apologetics every time you discuss with fellow Calvinists.

The major problem with Calvinism and Arminianism is that the net they spread isn't wide enough. They leave out the texts that seem to conflict with their views. the answer is to find a lucid and cogent view that takes into account ALL the text.

I find discussing with opposing views clarifies many bottlenecks in my own views. You may benefit too from my report of experience with the process if you are open to debate.

 

[Wordkeeper]

You're making my head hurt, bro.

Let me help. Everyone rejected the invitation, even those at the feast. The only reason they were there was because they were gathered. Those gathered were clothed in the correct clothes.

Israel lived in Canaan in a self centred existence, serving the world for food and shelter.

God placed israel in Egypt to show her an extreme version of her previous life: she was still serving the world for a living, only now all her previous problems were accentuated.

Finally Israel confessed the world system was unfruitful

She left the world system.

God called her to the feast in the celebration of her impending union with Him, His demonstation of how serving Him would be rewarding and fruitful.

Israel did not believe God and his methods:

Psalm 78:19Then they spoke against God; They said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?

But a few believed.

So many are called but only a few, the ones who believed, and came in the right clothes were chosen, and allowed to enter the Promised Land, be IN Christ.

 

[Hammster]

Israel lived in Canaan in a self centred existence, serving the world for food and shelter.

God placed israel in Egypt to show her an extreme version of her previous life: she was still serving the world for a living, only now all her previous problems were accentuated.

Finally Israel confessed the world system was unfruitful

She left the world system.

God called her to the feast in the celebration of her impending union with Him, His demonstation of how serving Him would be rewarding and fruitful.

Israel did not believe God and his methods:

Psalm 78:19Then they spoke against God; They said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?

But a few believed.

So many are called but only a few, the ones who believed, and came in the right clothes were chosen, and allowed to enter the Promised Land, be IN Christ.

Your unorthodox Pelegian views have been noted. You imagine so much in the text that there's not much else to discuss.

 

[JamesFW]

I know they were wearing wedding clothes. I knew that even without the exclamation point. But the question remains. Where in that parable do you see that they were chosen because they CHANGED?

We have to look at all pertinent passages concerning wedding clothes.

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”
8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”

The saints (those called and chosen) were dressed in fine linen, WHICH IS THE RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS. Without these righteous acts, they will not be dressed in fine linen.

The saints were those who changed from their unrighteous acts and performed righteous acts. As the man in the parable did not have on wedding garments, it shows he did not change from his unrighteous acts and perform righteous acts.

p.s. you may also want to note Jesus' Pelegian views also.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Every verse in the Bible is packed with implications, needs to be expanded. Else Christ would not have taught the need for praying for revelation from God every day.

Of course the believers in the new testament already knew the context mostly, so they did not have to have a full laying out of the word "justification" every time it was used. This is called synecdoche, metonymy.

just as you don't need to expand on the terms supralapsarian, infralapsarian, presuppositional/evidential apologetics every time you discuss with fellow Calvinists.

The major problem with Calvinism and Arminianism is that the net they spread isn't wide enough. They leave out the texts that seem to conflict with their views. the answer is to find a lucid and cogent view that takes into account ALL the text.

I find discussing with opposing views clarifies many bottlenecks in my own views. You may benefit too from my report of experience with the process if you are open to debate.

I was just about to post that the other thing revealed by threads like this is that most people hold a Pelagian soteriology rather than an Arminian one. It would be an improvement if the bulk of those who identify as Christians would hold to a true Arminianism. I would love to debate an actual Arminian. Your views, as laid out in this thread are clearly Pelagian; therefore, the gap between our worldviews is far to wide to cross. You have proven you have no need for a savior, while I desperately need one.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

We have to look at all pertinent passages concerning wedding clothes.

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”
8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”

The saints (those called and chosen) were dressed in fine linen, WHICH IS THE RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS. Without these righteous acts, they will not be dressed in fine linen.

The saints were those who changed from their unrighteous acts and performed righteous acts. As the man in the parable did not have on wedding garments, it shows he did not change from his unrighteous acts and perform righteous acts.

WOW! No need for a bloody cross for you, I guess.

"for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."

 

[JamesFW]

WOW! No need for a bloody cross for you, I guess.

"for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."

This does not speak of the marriage of the Lamb, and you know it.

Perhaps you didn't read verse 9 above - “These are the true sayings of God.”

Do you believe Revelation 19 hold the true sayings of God?

 

[Wordkeeper]

Your unorthodox Pelegian views have been noted. You imagine so much in the text that there's not much else to discuss.

The opposite of what Paul did in Athens is what the mainline churches do. They tell you salvation is from Hell. Then they give you the solution. You're never going to know what the problem is. You are at the wrong seminar/fellowship.

Blind leading the blind.

Those who don't know the problem is hacking, don't search for a hacking prevention solution.

How are you going to be cured if you don't know what the illness is?

 

[Hammster]

We have to look at all pertinent passages concerning wedding clothes.

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”
8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”

The saints (those called and chosen) were dressed in fine linen, WHICH IS THE RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS. Without these righteous acts, they will not be dressed in fine linen.

The saints were those who changed from their unrighteous acts and performed righteous acts. As the man in the parable did not have on wedding garments, it shows he did not change from his unrighteous acts and perform righteous acts.

p.s. you may also want to note Jesus' Pelegian views also.

Righteous acts of the Saints. Exactly.

 

[Hammster]

The opposite of what Paul did in Athens is what the mainline churches do. They tell you salvation is from Hell. Then they give you the solution. You're never going to know what the problem is. You are at the wrong seminar/fellowship.

Blind leading the blind.

Those who don't know the problem is hacking, don't search for a hacking prevention solution.

How are you going to be cured if you don't know what the illness is?

So what are we saved from? (And no, I don't think we are saved from hell)

 

[JamesFW]

Righteous acts of the Saints. Exactly.

So, does a person have to change from his unrighteous acts and perform righteous acts?

 

[JamesFW]

So what are we saved from? (And no, I don't think we are saved from hell)

Sin, or their unrighteous acts.

 

[Hammster]

So, does a person have to change from his unrighteous acts and perform righteous acts?

Everyone does unrighteous acts. So I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

[Hammster]

Sin, or their unrighteous acts.

And why do we need to be saved from that? What happens if we aren't?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This does not speak of the marriage of the Lamb, and you know it.

Perhaps you didn't read verse 9 above - “These are the true sayings of God.”

Do you believe Revelation 19 hold the true sayings of God?

I believe that Christ came to seek and save those who were dressed in filthy rags by clothing them in His righteousness.

 

[JamesFW]

Everyone does unrighteous acts. So I'm not sure what you're asking.

So how will everyone be dressed in wedding garments? These garments are the righteous acts of the saints.

 

[JamesFW]

And why do we need to be saved from that? What happens if we aren't?

There is this person who is called the Savior. And this is what He came to do -

Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Do you believe He came to seek and to save those who are lost, those in sin?

 

[JamesFW]

I believe that Christ came to seek and save those who were dressed in filthy rags by clothing them in His righteousness.

Why are continuously leaving out your righteous acts? Do you not want to be clothed with wedding garments at the wedding?

 

[Hammster]

So how will everyone be dressed in wedding garments? These garments are the righteous acts of the saints.

Because only Saints can perform righteous acts.

 

[Hammster]

There is this person who is called the Savior. And this is what He came to do -

Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Do you believe He came to seek and to save those who are lost, those in sin?

Can you please answer the question? If you're going to make statements, at least be confident enough to defend them.