Noah's Ark

[AV1611VET]

Quite the compliment. But I don't think that Aron would be anywhere near as polite as Obliquanaut has been.

Perhaps he's posting incognito?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Are you Aron Ra?

Sounds like an Egyptian god. And no, no I'm not.

Here's a picture of me:

 

[Obliquinaut]

Quite the compliment. But I don't think that Aron would be anywhere near as polite as Obliquanaut has been.

Is this another poster? A compliment? Wow! I am honored, I guess(?) (I'm trying to be on my best behavior, give it time I'm sure I'll lose the polite veneer )

 

[Obliquinaut]

Perhaps he's posting incognito?

Trust me, I'm not that other person. Is that person still a poster on the forum?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sounds like an Egyptian god. And no, no I'm not.

Here's a picture of me:

You don't know who Aron Ra is? He is a rather famous American atheist and YouTuber. He has many videos where he debunks creationists and their claims. Here is a link to his YouTube channel:

AronRa

He also used to be a member here years and years ago.

 

[Obliquinaut]

You don't know who Aron Ra is? He is a rather famous American atheist and YouTuber. He has many videos where he debunks creationists and their claims. Here is a link to his YouTube channel:

AronRa

He also used to be a member here years and years ago.

Oh wow! Thanks for the link!

 

[Subduction Zone]

And since this is a Noah's Ark thread here is a video of Aron Ra from his series where he refutes the Flood story:

 

[AV1611VET]

Trust me, I'm not that other person. Is that person still a poster on the forum?

Okay, I believe you.

He and I got into it once here, and you used a term he used that I don't see that often (ha'satan).

I was just wondering.

And no, I haven't seen him post here in years.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, I believe you.

He and I got into it once here, and you used a term he used that I don't see that often (ha'satan).

I was just wondering.

And no, I haven't seen him post here in years.

Is it possible to even dig up any of the old threads that he posted in?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is it possible to even dig up any of the old threads that he posted in?

Looks like we can't.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Okay, I believe you.

He and I got into it once here, and you used a term he used that I don't see that often (ha'satan).

I was just wondering.

And no, I haven't seen him post here in years.

I was mostly fascinated at the designation in Job of Satan as "ha'satan", the adversary. It was almost as if to take him out of the red horns and pitchfork and put him into the role of antagonist, not just the embodiment of pure evil.

I still find the evolution of the "Satan" concept in the BIble to be quite interesting. Clearly a well-developed character by the New Testament but still rather nebulous in the canonical Old Testament (I'm ignoring the book of Enoch since it is non-canonical). It would seem that something as fundamental and important as knowing one's enemy would be more well established from the beginning.

It just seems to show an evolutionary aspect to what people claim as ultimate truth.

 

[AV1611VET]

And since this is a Noah's Ark thread here is a video of Aron Ra from his series where he refutes the Flood story:

He's a hoot.

But he did say something here I agree with @ 07:45.

Why is it all the stories about Noah's flood (from other countries) contradict each other in detail?

 

[AV1611VET]

I was mostly fascinated at the designation in Job of Satan as "ha'satan", the adversary. It was almost as if to take him out of the red horns and pitchfork and put him into the role of antagonist, not just the embodiment of pure evil.

God, in His foreknowledge, schooled Satan with Job.

God knew Job would maintain his integrity, despite Satan's attempt to get Job to do otherwise.

Even Job's wife tried to get Job to "curse God and die."

And although Job didn't understand why God was allowing him to suffer so badly, God was in control all the time.

 

[Obliquinaut]

God, in His foreknowledge, schooled Satan with Job.

God knew Job would maintain his integrity, despite Satan's attempt to get Job to do otherwise.

Even Job's wife tried to get Job to "curse God and die."

And although Job didn't understand why God was allowing him to suffer so badly, God was in control all the time.

I know the book of Job is more appropriate to other sub-forums on this page, so I won't belabor it, but Job is a WONDERFUL contemplation on human suffering and the mystery of why it happens squished between two of the most repellent examples of horror-theology I can imagine.

God was "in control" in that He treated Job like a plaything to make a bet with and then excoriated him for mildly asking why he was being treated so horribly.

The parts in between were pure poetry though. I wish the author(s) hadn't felt the need to book end it with such horrific stuff.

 

[Colter]

So the God of the Bible is the same as all other gods? (Note: I'm ok with this so long as we understand that all the different gods are rather different, not just in the abstract).



That sounds nice, but I fear it lacks content. If God is simply defined as "absolute truth" that really doesn't carry much in terms of meaning. If God is "absolute truth" what can I take from that? What does it mean? Does "Absolute Truth" find gay marriage to be OK? Does "Absolute Truth" say there are a certain number of times I should kneel and pray facing Mecca? Does "Absolute Truth" command that I accept ONLY a guy named Jesus Christ who existed in Israel about 2 millenia ago as the ONLY route to salvation? Or is that necessary?

So many questions. To arbitrarily define God as some esoteric "concept" seems to sap Him of any actual meaning.

* The God of the Bible is a composite concept which evolved over time up until the Son of God incarnate on earth and greatly enhanced our understanding of the Father as it was revealed in his life. To have seen Jesus was to have seen the Father.

* The atonement idea is human speculation that contaminated the original gospel after Jesus left.

* If you sincerely sought to know God then you would realize he is a knowable personality reality.

 

[Colter]

Ex Cathedra statement. No supporting evidence other than merely stating it.



So we are denied the ability to use "reason" to understand God. That's pretty handy for those who don't like reason.

And it's exceptionally helpful if there's no real reason to believe God exists.

And we are back to the Unfalsifiable. And that, of course, is an intellectual death sentence.

I use reason, a mind made, mind managed universe seems entirely reasonable to me. We aren't denied the use of reason.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He's a hoot.

But he did say something here I agree with @ 07:45.

Why is it all the stories about Noah's flood (from other countries) contradict each other in detail?

Perhaps because they are all fictional? Only one can be true, but they all can be wrong.

 

[Obliquinaut]

* If you sincerely sought to know God then you would realize he is a knowable personality reality.

Now, I know you didn't mean it that way but that is incredibly insulting. You are telling me I was doing it wrong or I wasn't really interested in doing it right. Which truly denigrates whatever pain I felt at the time. I know you are only constructing more unfalsifiable claims (it seems to be a specialty) but do be advised that you know NOTHING about me but you are more than willing to pass judgement.

Which, if you were to read your bible you might learn is something frowned upon in Christianity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know the book of Job is more appropriate to other sub-forums on this page, so I won't belabor it, but Job is a WONDERFUL contemplation on human suffering and the mystery of why it happens squished between two of the most repellent examples of horror-theology I can imagine.

God was "in control" in that He treated Job like a plaything to make a bet with and then excoriated him for mildly asking why he was being treated so horribly.

The parts in between were pure poetry though. I wish the author(s) hadn't felt the need to book end it with such horrific stuff.

Yep, it is a good read, overall. What AV seems to have a hard time understanding is that the true villain of Job was not Satan.

 

[Obliquinaut]

I use reason, a mind made, mind managed universe seems entirely reasonable to me. We aren't denied the use of reason.

But that isn't the be-all and end-all to the Teleological argument is it? It is the spring board to prove the existence of God, not just as an ineffible concept but as a concrete being with specific attributes.

Otherwise the Teleological Argument is simply plastering the name "God" onto whatever it is we can't really understand even in the abstract (things like saying "God is Ultimate Truth"). Just meaningless word play.