- Jul 30, 2004
- 4,620
- 982
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
Hello RollingThunder.
Do you see the following two passages as identical?
Matthew 24
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
But isn't that the whole point of your post, to go where other scholars haven't gone before? The first thing you say is that other scholars are wrong because they don't look at Matthew 25 but then you also don't look at Matthew 25.
If you had actually talked about Matthew 25 then this might've been an interesting post. As it is, I don't really see the point, unless the point is for you to sell books.
This is a head shaker to me. To not be looking to compare the two, first of all, you're doing the same thing you're accusing other scholars of doing, which is ignoring other scripture that helps to explain the Olivet discourse, but what's worse is that when this is pointed out to you, you straight up choose to ignore it.
It's as if you consider the book of Luke and what it says about the time to flee to the mountains to be an irrelevant detail. Really? Why don't you address the point?
I wrote a book too. My avatar you see is the cover of "HELL ... IF I KNOW". The first half of the book is a study of basic Christianity that equips the individual to handle the second half which gets into the nature of Hell and the end times. To teach about the end and judgment, one must first know why judgment. So we must start from the beginning.
But being an author doesn't make you right, it just means you spent a lot of time studying. If the Pre-Trib view is wrong, then so is your book. Likewise with mine. This is the chance we take as certain as we may feel. I too am comfortable with my view. I've exhausted my intelligence and used 570 scriptures from seven different versions of the Bible just to be sure of the correct translations. But then there is that fork in the road which leads us down another path with not so much a different story but one that is structured differently ... che sara.
But thankfully, my book is not for horses and in the end, I'm sure God won't hold it against me ... if I am wrong. The important thing we are doing is warning people that the end is coming and ya'll need to repent. Amen! God Bless.
Luke mentions neither? Are you sure about that?Mark only discusses one of the two, and Luke mentions neither. So there you have it.
Luke mentions neither? Are you sure about that?
My bad, Luke did vaguely mention the coming of the Son of man, but gave no details about it whatsoever.
He gave the timing related to the warning to flee from Judea to the mountains and the fulfillment of "the times of the Gentiles".
Is that a detail?
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
.
Hello rollinThunder.Like I said, very vague. No trumpet, no angels being sent to gather together His elect...and nothing about the end of the age or world (second coming).
You must be kidding?and nothing about the end of the age or world (second coming)
Hello rollinThunder.
Luke 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
That is the second coming!
You must be kidding?
Luke 21
25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
These are the signs at the end, I cannot take you seriously.
Like I said, very vague. No trumpet, no angels being sent to gather together His elect...and nothing about the end of the age or world (second coming).
Maybe you need it to be vague to make your book work, because a simple parallel study of the three Gospel accounts clearly shows they are all talking about the same thing.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
.
But what I can't get into your thick scull, is that I'm no longer writing my book. I was simply applying Matthew 24 as an outline for presenting my new rapture theory. There is no need to compare notes in this at all.
Matthew and Mark may have more detail but if Luke reveals to us that the armies surrounding Jerusalem is that which causes people in Judea to flee, then we know that the abomination of desolation is related to that event, which happened 2000 years ago. Isn't that the most important detail of all?Luke is vague, simply saying there will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. Matt. and Mark were more specific, that the sun would be darkened, the moon would not give her light and the stars falling. Luke also fails to mention the great sound of a trumpet, no angels sent to gather together His elect (rapture). Mark did a good job of describing those things, but he did not mention the judgment of the nations or sheep and goats, which is the second coming.
But after enduring all of your accusations, you will be delighted to know that I did mention these things Mark and Luke added in my book, even though Luke was vague about the sign of the Son of man and neither one of them mention the second coming. Matthew's account was complete, lacking nothing, covering both the rapture & second coming.
But what I can't get into your thick scull, is that I'm no longer writing my book. I was simply applying Matthew 24 as an outline for presenting my new rapture theory. There is no need to compare notes in this at all. I chose the one that was most complete, trying to keep my presentation as short as possible. Furthermore, I do not write in accordance with your silly rules. You love to argue about silly things constantly, which is why I mostly ignored you the last time I was on this board. I can see that I may have to do the same again.
Matthew and Mark may have more detail but if Luke reveals to us that the armies surrounding Jerusalem is that which causes people in Judea to flee, then we know that the abomination of desolation is related to that event, which happened 2000 years ago. Isn't that the most important detail of all?
Not necessarily, look at the question He was asked in Luke. He was asked specifically about the destruction of the temple, not about the sign of His coming and the end of the world. Also, those who flee into the mountains does not mean they can only flee during the abomination of desolation. There are several desolations determined (Dan. 9:26-27). It appears to me that Luke was describing events in the first century, and he concludes with the time of the end. It also appears he was more specific about the events in the first century, as that was the question asked, but it gets more vague when he refers to the time of the end.
Cheers