But the one I loved died an atheist...

[mindlight]

I have a number of atheist friends / acquaintances who have lost loved ones. One lost a wife and another a mother and another a father.

My dilemma is this. The good news of the gospel is that regardless of how badly we have lived we can be forgiven our sins and come to know God for eternal life. So even people in the worst situations can find hope in that. Now that should be good news for everyone on a personal level. But there are those who refused that hope and died godless. These people probably will go to hell as a result.

So how do I share the gospel with someone for whom the thought of a recently departed parent or spouse being in hell is an impossibility and something they will never accept. How am I offering them hope if by accepting that hope they are giving up ever seeing the ones they love again?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have a number of atheist friends / acquaintances who have lost loved ones. One lost a wife and another a mother and another a father.

My dilemma is this. The good news of the gospel is that regardless of how badly we have lived we can be forgiven our sins and come to know God for eternal life. So even people in the worst situations can find hope in that. Now that should be good news for everyone on a personal level. But there are those who refused that hope and died godless. These people probably will go to hell as a result.

So how do I share the gospel with someone for whom the thought of a recently departed parent or spouse being in hell is an impossibility and something they will never accept. How am I offering them hope if by accepting that hope they are giving up ever seeing the ones they love again?

I guess you're going to have to believe that if God has chosen that person in His providence, then it is likely they'll be helped along in their belief despite whatever endearing connection they may have had with their non-believing ma or pa, or whomever. So, share the Gospel with care and compassion anyway ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus says, "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46. And what you are describing is an example of how someone can put one's own self in a place to deeply suffer because of how he or she has mainly loved only certain favorite people and has not prepared for people to die.

So, it is right and good to trust God to have us how we need to be for when we and others die. And when certain special ones die, be ready to go on to love specially with others

So, if someone is like you say, you possibly are a trusted friend of that person. If you are, be the person's friend by saying that Jesus died for us so we won't go to hell plus so we can share in love with God and all of the family of Jesus and not have only one or two or a few favorites.

And we help each other to be ready, in case one of us dies. If someone has been really good for you, God will keep that good going and even increasing after that person dies.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I guess you're going to have to believe that if God has chosen that person in His providence, then it is likely they'll be helped along in their belief despite whatever endearing connection they may have had with their non-believing ma or pa, or whomever. So, share the Gospel with care and compassion anyway ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Especially considering we don't know what happens up to, and while a person is actively dying. Some art romanticize comas, for example, as an ephemeral activity in our conscious plane of existence but a seemingly infinite period of conscious time in which the mind interacts. Even dying shows up on a scan as a symphony of neurological activity.

So, we have no idea the circumstances that constitute "dying," and death. There may be conscious exchange between Christ/God, and the person. A "last call" on salvation, so to speak.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Especially considering we don't know what happens up to, and while a person is actively dying. Some art romanticize comas, for example, as an ephemeral activity in our conscious plane of existence but a seemingly infinite period of conscious time in which the mind interacts. Even dying shows up on a scan as a symphony of neurological activity.

So, we have no idea the circumstances that constitute "dying," and death. There may be conscious exchange between Christ/God, and the person. A "last call" on salvation, so to speak.

We can hope that this may be the case. But as you've already said, " We don't know what happens ..."

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[mindlight]

I guess you're going to have to believe that if God has chosen that person in His providence, then it is likely they'll be helped along in their belief despite whatever endearing connection they may have had with their non-believing ma or pa, or whomever. So, share the Gospel with care and compassion anyway ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Yes it is God who chooses and saves. Overtime toxic connections with people that we valued for the wrong reasons do fade or even break. God often gives us perspectives through our later experiences that causes us to reevaluate those connections also.

 

[mindlight]

God Almighty -the Creator is the One they should love the most and loves them more than anyone else could. He does not want people to perish and has offered grace.
We do not know who is lost or saved as God is the Judge. They could have repented at the last moment and now wait for them in heaven. The rich man in Luke 16 did not want his five brothers to join him in hell. He asked for mercy and it is too late for him. He remained concerned for his brothers that had opportunity yet to hear and change their lives. Knowing they had become believers would have given some peace to the man in hell.

Yes God first and He defines true love so we set ourselves a poor standard if we idolise fallen creatures at his expense.

Yes what mother or father or spouse would want us to join them in hell. We could do nothing to help them there and if we ended up dragging children/ grandkids down with us we would we be hated and held in contempt by the very same people we idolised.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I have a number of atheist friends / acquaintances who have lost loved ones. One lost a wife and another a mother and another a father.

My dilemma is this. The good news of the gospel is that regardless of how badly we have lived we can be forgiven our sins and come to know God for eternal life. So even people in the worst situations can find hope in that. Now that should be good news for everyone on a personal level. But there are those who refused that hope and died godless. These people probably will go to hell as a result.

So how do I share the gospel with someone for whom the thought of a recently departed parent or spouse being in hell is an impossibility and something they will never accept. How am I offering them hope if by accepting that hope they are giving up ever seeing the ones they love again?

Ever consider just trying to show that your proposition is actually true with logic and evidence?

 

[mindlight]

Jesus says, "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46. And what you are describing is an example of how someone can put one's own self in a place to deeply suffer because of how he or she has mainly loved only certain favorite people and has not prepared for people to die.

So, it is right and good to trust God to have us how we need to be for when we and others die. And when certain special ones die, be ready to go on to love specially with others

So, if someone is like you say, you possibly are a trusted friend of that person. If you are, be the person's friend by saying that Jesus died for us so we won't go to hell plus so we can share in love with God and all of the family of Jesus and not have only one or two or a few favorites.

And we help each other to be ready, in case one of us dies. If someone has been really good for you, God will keep that good going and even increasing after that person dies.

Friendship and true concern are of course the best vehicles to share the gospel with. With one of the people mentioned earlier I have hope that will be effective, with one the connection is quite weak and with the other the other person has broken off all contact with me.

What gets me is how people can be so stubborn in their own self definitions to the point where their own self perception and outlook defines them and their futures. Is this pride, deception or blasphemy? It is God who is at the heart of reality and heart of a believer has the humility to regularly see stubborn but toxic convictions broken and to allow God to remake us in His own image.

We have an opportunity for perfection, eternity, love like we have never known it and life like we have never experienced it in God. Why should we cling to lies when the Truth is so clear!

 

[mindlight]

Especially considering we don't know what happens up to, and while a person is actively dying. Some art romanticize comas, for example, as an ephemeral activity in our conscious plane of existence but a seemingly infinite period of conscious time in which the mind interacts. Even dying shows up on a scan as a symphony of neurological activity.

So, we have no idea the circumstances that constitute "dying," and death. There may be conscious exchange between Christ/God, and the person. A "last call" on salvation, so to speak.

This is also a valid argument. We just do not know what happened to the other person. So given what we do know about heaven and hell , God and devil we should choose what is best anyway. If we end up committing to hell cause we think our loved one is there then how stupid will we feel if we find that at the last second they repented and are now with God!

 

[mindlight]

Ever consider just trying to show that your proposition is actually true with logic and evidence?

Of course the evidence is clear. We have an eyewitness who has returned from the dead to explain to us the way to eternal life. We have a traveller that came from the very throne of God , who lived amongst us and who descended into Hades and who has given us an account of his journey.

We have choices to make about where we end up. Logically to be with God is better than to burn in hell.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ever consider just trying to show that your proposition is actually true with logic and evidence?

...you mean, the act of showing non-believers how Jewish 'block logic,' along with heavily contextualized historical evidence(s), and the fact that human writing of any kind is representational in nature, all pertain to one's interpretation of the Bible--and that the understanding and acceptance of the Sacred Scriptures also requires the further Illumination by the Holy Spirit ?

yeah.......sounds like a simple walk-in-the-park, doesn't it?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[bhsmte]

Of course the evidence is clear. We have an eyewitness who has returned from the dead to explain to us the way to eternal life. We have a traveller that came from the very throne of God , who lived amongst us and who descended into Hades and who has given us an account of his journey.

We have choices to make about where we end up. Logically to be with God is better than to burn in hell.

If that works for you, stick with it. I wouldn't get too upset, if others don't see the validity in your personal beliefs. In fact, 2/3 of the world's population, disagrees with your faith beliefs.

 

[quatona]

I have a number of atheist friends / acquaintances who have lost loved ones. One lost a wife and another a mother and another a father.

My dilemma is this. The good news of the gospel is that regardless of how badly we have lived we can be forgiven our sins and come to know God for eternal life. So even people in the worst situations can find hope in that. Now that should be good news for everyone on a personal level. But there are those who refused that hope and died godless. These people probably will go to hell as a result.

So how do I share the gospel with someone for whom the thought of a recently departed parent or spouse being in hell is an impossibility and something they will never accept. How am I offering them hope if by accepting that hope they are giving up ever seeing the ones they love again?

It´s one thing to sell your opinions as truth, and another to sell them as good news. Especially when the evidence for the first is weak and the news aren´t actually that good, trying both at the same time is a pretty hard task.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Of course the evidence is clear. We have an eyewitness who has returned from the dead to explain to us the way to eternal life.

Ummm... woah.

So then I take it that you accept firsthand testimony about Bigfoot, alien abductions, Nessy, and Elvis sightings?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Of course the evidence is clear. We have an eyewitness who has returned from the dead to explain to us the way to eternal life. We have a traveller that came from the very throne of God , who lived amongst us and who descended into Hades and who has given us an account of his journey.

We have choices to make about where we end up. Logically to be with God is better than to burn in hell.

...even though you and I both agree that Jesus is our Risen Lord, I don't really agree that the "evidence is clear." If it were, people would be lining up in droves to get into the Kingdom. The reality is that even in the Bible itself, we are given indication that God has purposely presented prophetic images in epistemologically obscure ways. In fact, people--even the Israelite/Jewish people--haven't been necessarily privy to understanding all that God has had planned.

So, when we speak about the 'truth' of the Gospel of Christ with non-believers, we need to keep the above in mind. Too often, I see many fellow Christians who present the Gospel as an obvious option when it really isn't.

Furthermore, and in direct relation to the OP, we see Jesus indicating that relationships with loved ones, even those who are dying or who have died, can stand in the way of one's decision to accept Christ. In fact, I have a mother-in-law who is not a Christian, and because her relationship with her own dearly departed mother was so strong, she really can't find it in herself to just 'skip on over' to the Christian faith because she knows that to do so would be to have to accept the strong likelihood that her mother won't also be present with her in eternity. So, she basically rejects the proposition that Jesus is the "only way," and she does this for what seems to be the very reasons implied by Jesus.

With all of this in mind, it would probably be wise for us to be circumspect in how we present the Gospel of Christ since not only are portions of it obscure, but it is very psychologically challenging to many people all by itself, and this is without our additional aims to make it even more socially pressurized.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[mindlight]

Ummm... woah.

So then I take it that you accept firsthand testimony about Bigfoot, alien abductions, Nessy, and Elvis sightings?

No because on examination none of those witnesses are credible ones and they stand alone. Jesus has a supernatural footprint witnessed directly by the 500 who saw Him risen, by the hundreds of thousands who saw him perform miracles and by the billions who know him today.

 

[mindlight]

If that works for you, stick with it. I wouldn't get too upset, if others don't see the validity in your personal beliefs. In fact, 2/3 of the world's population, disagrees with your faith beliefs.

truth has never been about a majority vote or were Galileo and Copernicus wrong for instance?