Salvation?

[ladodgers6]

Nope - He had to EAT it...

Arsenios

What do you mean he "HAD" to eat it? Did Adam not have a Free-Will to choose between obeying or disobeying?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why would a king form laws if all the people in his kingdom were mentally incompetent, did not know good from evil?

So knowing evil is not being mentally incompetent?

Well I am glad all your mental faculties are there for you and you have evil then. Congratulations!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Theology deals with morals, the issues that is tackled by the person with the area of brain that is developed for this purpose.

Every person has this portion of the brain. As we grow into adulthood, this part also grows in size, increasing our ability to know good from evil. For normal people. Abnormal people lack this development, becoming mentally handicapped.

Scripture deals with this issue of ability to know good from evil. God did not want Adam to know good from evil because he had an untrained body. He walked with Adam in the cool of the evening, training him. Adam jumped the gun.

We all inherit this state: untrained body, knowledge of good and evil. That's a recipe for disaster, because when we understood the commands, we died, were separated from God by our out of control actions. Old covenant believers know about the situation:

John 9:20His parents answered them and said, “We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 21but how he now sees, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know. Ask him; he is of age, he will speak for himself.” 22His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews; for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed Him to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue.

Before accountability, the sins of the children are laid on the parents, they are thrown out of the synagogue as wages of the sin.

In other places, Isaiah talks about a virgin giving birth before a child knows sweet from sour. Discussing gradual development.

I have no desire to talk morals with you. I would go to that sub forum if I did.

That sounds like a thread you should start somewhere.

 

[frienden thalord]

Good night as I read some of the thoughts some have said, my conculsion is
scholars , men of renown have made complex what should have been so simple.
The minds of man has corrupted and made complex what Christ made so simple
And it aint no surprise why we have so many different denominations .
MEN, their minds had to change something to suit how they perceive truth.
INSTEAD of letting the HOLY GHOST reveal truth.
And now we have come to nigh the end..........and the largest most wicked religion
has been born and soon the world will have to bow to its image or be killed.
Marvel not , it comes under the guise of world peace , unity , love and tolerance
but the heart of man is wicked.
For though it cries peace and it sure seems the answer for more and more
on how to obtain world peace, HEED IT NOT
for it wll cause more blood to be shed than at any other time
YES............its leading to men and a man who will hold and appear
to have the answers for peace.........THE SON OF PERDTION .
and the great tribulation hour will begin .
ITS called INTEFIATH>.......and it has been born .

 

[frienden thalord]

and I shun interfaith and any concept of it right to the pit of hell where it belongs.
And I have no fear saying its of the DEVIL himself.
I had sooner be persecuted and killed , staying faithful to Christ alone
than to be a partaker of the dragons religion. ITs upmost wicked .

 

[Wordkeeper]

So knowing evil is not being mentally incompetent?

Well I am glad all your mental faculties are there for you and you have evil then. Congratulations!

Knowing good from evil is a good thing. It's only bad if you cannot choose to do the good you want to do, because of death, separation from God. Thanks be to Christ who has saved us from this body of death by uniting us with Him.!

 

[Wordkeeper]

I have no desire to talk morals with you. I would go to that sub forum if I did.

That sounds like a thread you should start somewhere.

Does theology teach us how to act right? Then morality is a part of theology.

 

[Wordkeeper]

and I shun interfaith and any concept of it right to the pit of hell where it belongs.
And I have no fear saying its of the DEVIL himself.
I had sooner be persecuted and killed , staying faithful to Christ alone
than to be a partaker of the dragons religion. ITs upmost wicked .

How can you be loyal to a king and his principles if you do not know those principles?

Why did Jesus baptise with the Holy Spirit and with FIRE?

Jeremiah 23: 25“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’ 26“How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, 27who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal? 28“The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the LORD. 29“Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?30“Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other. 31“Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who use their tongues and declare, ‘The Lord declares.’ 32“Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the LORD, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD.

 

[Arsenios]

So then we are finally in agreement that death is result of sin?

Only in Adam. and only Adam's one sin, which we do NOT inherit...
Our death IS the result of THAT ONE sin...
We inherit Adam's death...
Our sin is our own...
With or without Adam's sin, we inherit death...
From Adam to Moses, death ruled WITHOUT Adam's sin... Rom 5:14
And all died.
For all inherited Adam's death...
But Adam's sin they did NOT inherit...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Now, what is this Covenant of Works? Is it in the Bible?

Good point - A covenant is something two parties agree to...
The Bible tells us why God placed Adam in the Garden - To tend it and watch over it...
Adam was free to eat therein, except for that one pesky tree...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

What do you mean he "HAD" to eat it? Did Adam not have a Free-Will to choose between obeying or disobeying?

He HAD TO eat of it IN ORDER TO die...

youknewthatalready!

Arsenios

 

[ToBeLoved]

Knowing good from evil is a good thing. It's only bad if you cannot choose to do the good you want to do, because of death, separation from God. Thanks be to Christ who has saved us from this body of death by uniting us with Him.!

God would disagree with you. I would think a little more about this.

God created Adam and Eve perfectly and said that it is good.

You are now talking directly against what God Himself has declared good (Adam and Eve before sin) and advocating for the fallen state of man being a good thing.

If we lean on our own understanding and it is not God's Word, then we have begun down a slippery slope where we think our own understanding trumps God.

I would give this subject more thought. Once God is no longer Holy, all kinds of error follows.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Does theology teach us how to act right? Then morality is a part of theology.

Not when you are talking about how children cross the street and other such things.

That has nothing to do with God.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Not when you are talking about how children cross the street and other such things.

That has nothing to do with God.

Right. A warning has nothing to do with theology. It's not about doing right or wrong. That's why Adam was not doing anything immoral. He was doing a stupid thing.

It didn't need God to be involved. Some one else could have told him not to eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Not a theologian. A scientist. A biologist.

BUT, but:

Eating of the fruit gave him knowledge of good and evil. Now Adam has come under the jurisdiction of Law. Just like a person who crosses 18 can be jailed for a crime, but not a 17 year old.

Now it has become a matter of right and wrong, not safe and dangerous.

You could say it is safe to be as underage as long as possible. It provides protection from the jurisdiction of the Law.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Right. A warning has nothing to do with theology. It's not about doing right or wrong. That's why Adam was not doing anything immoral. He was doing a stupid thing.

It didn't need God to be involved. Some one else could have told him not to eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Not a theologian. A scientist. A biologist.

BUT, but:

Eating of the fruit gave him knowledge of good and evil. Now Adam has come under the jurisdiction of Law. Just like a person who crosses 18 can be jailed for a crime, but not a 17 year old.

Now it has become a matter of right and wrong, not safe and dangerous.

You could say it is safe to be as underage as long as possible. It provides protection from the jurisdiction of the Law.

It is much better to deal with the facts presented in the Bible then to start making analogies that confuse the subject. But you keep inserting other analogies that have nothing to do with Adam.

So what am I to do?

 

[ladodgers6]

So knowing evil is not being mentally incompetent?

Well I am glad all your mental faculties are there for you and you have evil then. Congratulations!

Well then, let's be a lawless. Who needs Law?

 

[ladodgers6]

He HAD TO eat of it IN ORDER TO die...

youknewthatalready!

Arsenios

I asked this question, because it seemed like you were suggesting Adam did not have a choice?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well then, let's be a lawless. Who needs Law?

That's all society - lawless, pernicious, death dealing, fatal, separate from God.

 

[Arsenios]

I asked this question, because it seemed like you were suggesting Adam did not have a choice?

So do you agree that men are born dead in Adam and upon this death all have sinned?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

So knowing evil is not being mentally incompetent?

Well I am glad all your mental faculties are there for you and you have evil then. Congratulations!

Knowing is doing...
The rest is knowing ABOUT something...
Adam KNEW Eve...
KNOWING the One True God and His Son, Jesus Christ
IS Life Eternal
To be doing the Will of God IS to KNOW the one true God...

Arsenios