Is this communism?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But that's all happening in the greatest country in the world. (or so I'm told)

Many ekklesia in many other countries have been praying for the usa for a century, 100 years, because of the great wickednesses practiced with society wholly started and continually immersed in greed, idolatry, selfishness, oppression of the poor and weak and sick and all, the poisoning widespread of land, food, air and bodies, and many other spiritual, mental, and physical abuses all across the land.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I should have started with socialism and not even mentioned communism, my bad because it gave you a way out.

I'm not sure I follow in what way it was a "way out". I was simply pointing out that socialist or socialistic programs exist in virtually every modern democratic nation, and that Communism is a rather particular animal. I don't think "socialism" is a naughty word. A healthy blend of capitalism and socialism helps mitigate against the extremes and injustices of both systems. I would argue that we should work beyond mere abstract systems and weigh the human cost and always seek that which is most just, especially what is most just for the disenfranchised, the poor, and the hungry. And that the pursuit of a just society ought to always be the highest political goal. Any society that does not prioritize the needs of the poor, the hungry, and the disenfranchised is a failing society.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tampasteve]

What you described is the private insurance system as we have now. People willingly pay into your husband's coffee discount group for cheaper coffee. With insurance people willing pay into a larger pool for reduced rates. The issue I have with a national system is the forced participation, not the idea in general. Force is what most Americans have issue with, not a large pool for reduced rates.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The issue I have with a national system is the forced participation, not the idea in general. Force is what most Americans have issue with, not a large pool for reduced rates.

For outside this forum research for those who care:

the deception, very extensive deception, by pharmakeia (however you want to translate it from Revelation 18)
is the most damaging aspect , the most corrupting and harmful to all people in the united states and other countries to different/ varying degrees,
than anything else.

Almost no one remembers when healthyness was normal and expected - from before 1900 thru woodstock in or around 1960's....
And almost no one seems to care that the cause of the great increase in cost and in sickness has been known all along,
and that it was done by planning, on purpose.

 

[Desk trauma]

OK, what if a 1000 people got together and bought stuff from a wholesaler and got a huge discount then spread the benifits around the 1000 people? would that be socialism? (I've change communism for socialism)

No.

 

[AlicePar]

Force is what most Americans have issue with, not a large pool for reduced rates.

You say this even though all Americans who own cars are 'forced' to insure them, people are 'forced' to pay taxes, people are even 'forced' to walk properly when crossing the road, (jaywalking) people are 'forced' to do lots of things except when it comes to something that is costing Americans billions and billions of dollars and is killing tens of thousands of Americans for no good reason every year. (the reason is powerful Americans are getting billions every year and they want to keep getting those billions.)
Why is it "every" other country in the civilised world forces it's citizens to pay health care insurance? because it benifits "everyone and their country" in each of those societies that's why.
Meanwhile Americans want to hang onto the outdated idea that they are somehow 'free' when all they are free to do is kill themselves, Americans are clinging to this 'freedom' (people in every civilised country has 'freedom') nonsense and it's slowly destroying them.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why is it "every" other country in the civilised world forces it's citizens to pay insurance for health care? because it benifits "everyone" and their country in each of those societies that's why.

No, that's not why.
It is completely part and parcel in step with the nwo.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Someone above just said force. When a government forces money out of its citizens called a mandate (example: fine for no Obama care) what system is that?

If there is no liberty/freedom of choice what is taxation without representation? Should I support policy makers termed D & R to the corporations of war since I am no war corporation or big pharma corporation on both sides of the isle weather it is D or R ?

Thus, is my tax a mandate too? If so, is that communism; for policy is not written for me anymore?

 

[AlicePar]

No, that's not why.
It is completely part and parcel in step with the nwo.

Are you saying that a healthy population is not good for a country?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Are you saying that a healthy population is not good for a country?

Instead of trying to twist what someone posts into some strange ungodly motive, why not just realize the nwo is in power in many places and is controlling a lot of the world with greed and oppression and deception ?

 

[tampasteve]

You say this even though all Americans who own cars are 'forced' to insure them, people are 'forced' to pay taxes, people are even 'forced' to walk properly when crossing the road, (jaywalking) people are 'forced' to do lots of things except when it comes to something that is costing Americans billions and billions of dollars and is killing tens of thousands of Americans for no good reason every year. (the reason is powerful Americans are getting billions every year and they want to keep getting those billions.)
Why is it "every" other country in the civilised world forces it's citizens to pay health care insurance? because it benifits "everyone and their country" in each of those societies that's why.
Meanwhile Americans want to hang onto the outdated idea that they are somehow 'free' when all they are free to do is kill themselves, Americans are clinging to this 'freedom' (people in every civilised country has 'freedom') nonsense and it's slowly destroying them.

Wow, that is a passionate statement. I can see you are passionate about the subject. Let us start at a point that America is not the UK, and our cultures and values are different. Let me also state that I actually am FOR a national health insurance option, just not a forced one. I believe that if a competitive national option were introduced that was across the whole country and was fairly priced, or hopefully cheaper then we would see a reduction in prices for most people, or at least another option for people. I also believe that our health insurance, regardless of how one buys it, should be completely separate from our jobs. However, in spite of what you believe, not every country in the "civilized world" has universal healthcare. Not many people would call Brazil, China, Mexico, Turkey, Columbia, Iran, or Panama "uncivilized".

All that said though, I actually do believe a universal healthcare system in the USA is probably the only way to stem costs eventually. But that does not mean that I have to actually agree with it. I can believe in Libertarian values while also seeing where it is going and what a solution is. The fact is that our system as it is currently is not free. But that is a discussion for another thread.

As for car insurance in America, your representation is not correct, but since you do not live here you are probably unaware of how it actually works. First, one does not HAVE to have a car, in many places cars are optional entirely. If you do not have a car you don't have to pay car insurance. Second, the grades or levels of the forced insurance is variable. One is not forced to have total coverage for the car, medical liability, etc. just a bare minimum to cover if you hit someone else. Third, your car does not have to be insured at all unless you have a loan on it, and then it is not your car, it is collateral to the company you are making payments to until you have paid it off.

 

[Joshua_5]

My husband buys stock in bulk for his company at a wholesale food warehouse.
if say 50 people in a firm where I worked all got together and put in $20 ($1000) to buy coffee which my husband could buy in bulk at a 15% discount would Americans think that was communism?

Nope. Communism would be your husband keeping all of the coffee for himself, giving the 50 people a dead dog to divide amongst themselves in return for their purchase, and killing them for being traitors to the nation if/when they complain about being cheated of their $20.

Socialism is pretty much the same, but instead of killing people who complain, they just jail them for being tax-cheats.

 

[AlicePar]

I wrote:
You say this even though all Americans who own cars are 'forced' to insure them.

As for car insurance in America, your representation is not correct, but since you do not live here you are probably unaware of how it actually works. First, one does not HAVE to have a car, in many places cars are optional entirely. If you do not have a car you don't have to pay car insurance. Second, the grades or levels of the forced insurance is variable. One is not forced to have total coverage for the car, medical liability, etc. just a bare minimum to cover if you hit someone else. Third, your car does not have to be insured at all unless you have a loan on it, and then it is not your car, it is collateral to the company you are making payments to until you have paid it off.

You really worked hard at showing yourself up.

 

[David Brider]

Nope. Communism would be your husband keeping all of the coffee for himself, giving the 50 people a dead dog to divide amongst themselves in return for their purchase, and killing them for being traitors to the nation if/when they complain about being cheated of their $20.

Socialism is pretty much the same, but instead of killing people who complain, they just jail them for being tax-cheats.

...maybe you could look up what the words "communism" and "socialism" actually mean..?

 

[tampasteve]

I wrote:
You say this even though all Americans who own cars are 'forced' to insure them.
You really worked hard at showing yourself up.

I think you misunderstood me, or I was not clear. I only meant to inform on how it works here, but I did not say it was not forced. You are correct, we are forced to have a level of insurance if we have a car. But one does not have to have a car, there are options. Unlike a forced universal healthcare option which would, in your statement, be levied on all. I apologize if I was not clear on my post before, but I was not trying to show anyone up.

 

[AlicePar]

But one does not have to have a car, there are options. Unlike a forced universal healthcare option which would, in your statement, be levied on all.

Yes it's levied on everyone for the simple reason sooner or later "everyone" will need and use the healthcare system, the system will never work if people are allowed to wait until they need it before paying for it, to think that it would is just plain crazy, the idea is everybody pays and everybody benifits, it works in most of the worlds civilized countries so there is no reason to assume it could not work in the US, ask anyone who lives under a universal healthcare system if they would change it and they would laugh in your face, the very idea would be unthinkable.
Until the US gets a universal system they will just bounce from one failed system to another, what needs to be ask is how many Americans will need to die needlessly before it eventually happens.

 

[Albion]

Yes it's levied on everyone for the simple reason sooner or later "everyone" will need and use the healthcare system, the system will never work if people are allowed to wait until they need it before paying for it, to think that it would is just plain crazy, the idea is everybody pays and everybody benifits, it works in most of the worlds civilized countries so there is no reason to assume it could not work in the US, ask anyone who lives under a universal healthcare system if they would change it and they would laugh in your face, the very idea would be unthinkable..

I've asked a few and they told me that, yes, there's coverage...so long as you are willing to wait six months for needed surgery, etc. They didn't and opted to fly to another country for the operation. That's Socialism in action--everyone gets some except that it isn't available anymore.

 

[Dave-W]

OK, what if a 1000 people got together and bought stuff from a wholesaler and got a huge discount then spread the benifits around the 1000 people? would that be socialism? (I've change communism for socialism)

No. It is exploiting Capitalism's economy of scale function.

 

[AlicePar]

I've asked a few and they told me that, yes, there's coverage...so long as you are willing to wait six months for needed surgery, etc. They didn't and opted to fly to another country for the operation. That's Socialism in action--everyone gets some except that it isn't available anymore.

Then I'm afraid there is no hope for you because that is simply not true, please try getting your information from sites other than republican sites, if I posted a few independant sites would you watch them? here is a short one made by an American firm it tells it like it is warts an all.

Here's an old one 2009 told by an American who has been living in the UK for many years.

 

[Albion]

Then I'm afraid there is no hope for you because that is simply not true

Since you have no idea of which friends I spoke with, I'm not impressed by a post that's just bluster.