Disprove Calvinist Soteriology

[jimmyjimmy]

Not all of us are chosen to be apostles.

Jesus also said this:

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

So, Jesus was speaking to crowds of thousands, but hiding His meaning to "all" of those people, except for the 12?

All men, and in every person, without exception? You do understand that the word, "all" doesn't ALWAYS mean that, right? Because people use the word, "all" in other ways, "all" of the time.

 

[Thursday]

Does the Son lose any that the Father gives Him?

No, but they are given at judgment.

 

[Thursday]

So, Jesus was speaking to crowds of thousands, but hiding His meaning to "all" of those people, except for the 12?

All men, and in every person, without exception? You do understand that the word, "all" doesn't ALWAYS mean that, right? Because people use the word, "all" in other ways, "all" of the time.

Yes, Jesus gave a unique message and authority to the apostles. We choose to accept or reject their message:

Praying for the apostles:

John 17
13“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them byd the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All

20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Actually, it does say that. It says that God created the world so that men will seek him.

The bible also tells us that God's grace reaches out to all men and that Jesus will draw all men to himself.

You create you theological views with verses, with little understanding of how they fit together within the CONTEXT of the book or canon.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Yes, Jesus gave a unique message and authority to the apostles. We choose to accept or reject their message:

Praying for the apostles:

John 17
13“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them byd the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All

20“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

That's not what I asked.

 

[Thursday]

You create you theological views with verses, with little understanding of how the fit together within the CONTEXT of the book or canon.

True. That's called Calvinism.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

True. That's called Calvinism.

Very childish reply.

 

[Hammster]

No, but they are given at judgment.

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:44‬ ‭NASB‬‬
Yiu said elsewhere that Jesus draws all men. Here it says that all that are drawn will be raised up.

If your view is correct, then this is universalism.

 

[EmSw]

So either answer puts our theology at risk? Lol.

So much so, you can only laugh at it.

 

[Hammster]

So much so, you can only laugh at it.

I think this has been covered.

 

[EmSw]

Why would they pray for belief?

Why did the believing disciples had unbelief? How is this possible?

Matthew 17
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “why could we not cast it out?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “because of your unbelief...

 

[Hammster]

Why did the believing disciples had unbelief? How is this possible?

Matthew 17
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “why could we not cast it out?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “because of your unbelief...

Different context.

 

[EmSw]

Different context.

Really? How do you differentiate between unbelievers? Have you made a rule which distinguishes them?

 

[EmSw]

I didn't say anything about anyone being a liar.

Walk carefully, bro.

I asked you who is lying - 4 pointers or 5 pointers? They can't both have the truth.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I asked you who is lying - 4 pointers or 5 pointers? They can't both have the truth.

Being mistaken about something is not the same thing as lying about something.

 

[Hammster]

Really? How do you differentiate between unbelievers? Have you made a rule which distinguishes them?

Those weren't unbelievers.

 

[Hammster]

I asked you who is lying - 4 pointers or 5 pointers? They can't both have the truth.

And I gave you my answer concerning the two views.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Really? How do you differentiate between unbelievers? Have you made a rule which distinguishes them?

Is your faith without flaw? If not, then you are an unbeliever, in part, as we all are.

 

[EmSw]

You asked if saved people would be condemned, so maybe you don't understand the definition of, "condemned". You certainly don't understand the meaning of one or both of those words.

Let's see, do you want the OT definition of 'condemn', or do you want the NT definition?

Here is the OT definition according to Strong's -

1. to be wicked, act wickedly
   1. (Qal)
      1. to be wicked, act wickedly
      2. to be guilty, be condemned
   2. (Hiphil)
      1. to condemn as guilty (in civil relations)
      2. to condemn as guilty (in ethical or religious relations)
      3. to act wickedly (in ethics and religion)
         

And, here is the NT definition -

1. to give judgment against (one), to pronounce guilty
2. to condemn
   And then there is this -
   1. to find fault with, blame
   2. to accuse, condemn
      

Which one do you like, jimmyjimmy? Do saved people act wickedly? Are the saved guilty of wickedness? Can saved people to be blamed for wickedness?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Let's see, do you want the OT definition of 'condemn', or do you want the NT definition?

Here is the OT definition according to Strong's -

1. to be wicked, act wickedly
   1. (Qal)
      1. to be wicked, act wickedly
      2. to be guilty, be condemned
   2. (Hiphil)
      1. to condemn as guilty (in civil relations)
      2. to condemn as guilty (in ethical or religious relations)
      3. to act wickedly (in ethics and religion)

And, here is the NT definition -

1. to give judgment against (one), to pronounce guilty
2. to condemn
   And then there is this -
   1. to find fault with, blame
   2. to accuse, condemn

Which one do you like, jimmyjimmy? Do saved people act wickedly? Are the saved guilty of wickedness? Can saved people to be blamed for wickedness?

Some sinners are pardoned by God.