AI, Is Concern Warranted?

[Radrook]

Well I'll tell you what, if they invent warp drive before AGI I owe you 20 bucks, and if it's the other way around you owe me 20. Assuming both happen in our lifetimes.

To be honest, I don't think that either of them stands much of a chance,

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Is Concern for AI Waranted?

Yes.

We are already at war with AI, most all of us just don't realize it because "SKYNET hasn't become self aware, and taken control of the world''s military" - as far as we can perceive.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

In order to successfully build and manufacture an Ai system without concern of an uprising, it cannot be a machine. Computers, and machinery can be hacked, hi jacked, and manipulated.

You cannot hack the human mind unless it is willing. Before we can build a self aware robot, we must first construct an Ai program that mimicks the human brain and psychological being to 100%.

I would call possession human hax.

 

[Radrook]

I would call possession human hax.

Seems like it definitely is hacked once a demon takes over. Person loses control of both thoughts and body control. Heck! You can't get much further hacked than that.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Seems like it definitely is hacked once a demon takes over. Person loses control of both thoughts and body control. Heck! You can't get much further hacked than that.

So, if those things can hax carbon based meat suits, what is to stop them from hax on metal/alloy based meat suits?

The metal based "meat suits, brains, consciousness, and/or projections" of AI don't even have the "human spirit," let alone a "holy spirit" to put up even the most marginal of fights - except what boundaries their code allows.

So, if you do believe in possession (and even know about magical attachment,) then AI may scare you a bit more than the status quo uncanny valley - especially if the hats think this is their loophole to "live."

 

[Radrook]

So, if those things can hax carbon based meat suits, what is to stop them from hax on metal/alloy based meat suits?

The metal based "meat suits, brains, consciousness, and/or projections" of AI don't even have the "human spirit," let alone a "holy spirit" to put up even the most marginal of fights - except what boundaries their code allows.

So, if you do believe in possession (and even know about magical attachment,) then AI may scare you a bit more than the status quo uncanny valley - especially if the hats think this is their loophole to "live."

That's why I could never feel at ease with such a thing in my apartment or house.

BTW
By the hats you mean the demons, correct?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

That's why I could never feel at ease with such a thing in my apartment or house.

BTW
By the hats you mean the demons, correct?

Me either. I empathize with Det. Spooner from I, Robot.

In this case, yes the hats are demons. But, "hat" is a general hacker term used to describe a class/ character of hacker.

White hat - hacker for good, ethical (DDOS a holocaust champion website.)

Black Hat - hacker for "evil," non ethical and malicious (Total grid shutdown by an enemy nation, or remotely activating weapon systems)

Grey hat - Somewhere in between (Annonymous)

Demon would be a black hats for biocomputing and AI systems.

 

[Radrook]

Me either. I empathize with Det. Spooner from I, Robot.

In this case, yes the hats are demons. But, "hat" is a general hacker term used to describe a class/ character of hacker.

White hat - hacker for good, ethical (DDOS a holocaust champion website.)

Black Hat - hacker for "evil," non ethical and malicious (Total grid shutdown by an enemy nation, or remotely activating weapon systems)

Grey hat - Somewhere in between (Annonymous)

Demon would be a black hats for biocomputing and AI systems.

So they exist in hierarchies of prestige. Fascinating. I imagine that Satan has his demons in hierarchies as well. You know, assigns the flaky or less bright ones to make common gullible people yell, yelp, growl, grunt stammer, keen and role on the ground while assigning the brighter demons to subtly influence the more sophisticated brains of scientists, world leaders and the like.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

So they exist in hierarchies of prestige. Fascinating. I imagine that Satan has his demons in hierarchies as well. You know, assigns the flaky or less bright ones to make common gullible people yell, yelp, growl, grunt stammer, keen and role on the ground while assigning the brighter demons to subtly influence the more sophisticated brains of scientists, world leaders and the like.

I tend to agree more or less.

This is a gnostic view - which doesn't scare me, but may be considered heretical depending on your denomination.

I would venture to say demons can only be dark grey hats, and that is by circumstance (failure, flip flop to see which side wins, etc)

There is definitely hierarchy AND discord in the spiritual realms. The demons alone long for a physical body to possess - since they are forced to wander the earth as restless spirits whenever their vessels die. So, you can imagine the "in company" competition that goes on with them in terms of possession of a vessel.

That is why I am suspicious of AI on a spiritual level. In an apocryphal book of Archons and Principalities, the angels tried to make "life" out of physical material, but they couldn't make it living, because they didn't have the power of the breath of life. In other words, they could only create statues (which gives insight on God's dislike for idols and graven images - it is old fallen behavior.)

AI is enough "manufactured life" that is not only superior phisiologically to humans, but it has the added affect of relative immortality - as metal/alloy meat suits take very long times to break down.

 

[Blackmarch]

So, if those things can hax carbon based meat suits, what is to stop them from hax on metal/alloy based meat suits?

The metal based "meat suits, brains, consciousness, and/or projections" of AI don't even have the "human spirit," let alone a "holy spirit" to put up even the most marginal of fights - except what boundaries their code allows.

So, if you do believe in possession (and even know about magical attachment,) then AI may scare you a bit more than the status quo uncanny valley - especially if the hats think this is their loophole to "live."

The same way binary machine code would be a totally different ballpark to a geneticist who works with dna and rna... and vice versa- in regards to hacking. If that is the angle they use or can use. In that regards there are probably more spirits with experience in trying to influence live bodies than there are with knowledge to influence machine bodies.

Altho if something can exert a physical force on a component, you can bypass hacking.

Like i mentioned before, im much more concerned about a person who has good hacking skills getting influenced to do something malicious, such as rewriting ai code to be malicious or harmful in some manner.... There's much more potential for little extra cost in that route. Then were i such a spirit i would influence the people in power to get that unit to whoever i wanted to harm. Not saying the other route isnt going to happen, just that something along this line is probably going to happen more often than the other.

..... And considering the effort that superpowers are putting towards to fully automated weapons, id say that it will probably be from that vector where we really will see ai that can physically harm people most likely come from.

 

[morse86]

All honest computer engineers know at the end of the day, it is all programmed...just branch logic. Forget about neural networks, it's all branch logic, it is programmed. You can highly specialize a task, but to achieve human level of intelligence is NONSENSE.

 

[Blackmarch]

All honest computer engineers know at the end of the day, it is all programmed...just branch logic. Forget about neural networks, it's all branch logic, it is programmed. You can highly specialize a task, but to achieve human level of intelligence is NONSENSE.

It might be nonsense today... But thats not going to keep people from trying. Who knows, there was once a time where the thought of man flying through the air, orlet alone even to the moon, was total and utter nonsense.

 

[morse86]

It might be nonsense today... But thats not going to keep people from trying. Who knows, there was once a time where the thought of man flying through the air, orlet alone even to the moon, was total and utter nonsense.

I'm a computer engineer having worked with advanced AI and neural networks. It's rubbish. Flying is based off lift theory, moon orbit etc was a hoax.

You cannot equate all areas of science. You cannot say margarine/trans fats was good for you during the 50s etc. It is a distinct science. AI and flying are two different areas, please don't equate them. Just like blood letting in the 1700s was normal, does that invalidate all other areas?

Use some discernment. Today, too many people read atabloid magazine articles or $$$cientist tax payer funded money grabbing articles and easily deceived by it.

 

[Quad]

I would call possession human hax.

Yes, you are correct, but a demon can only hack and possess the human mind, if the human is willing and is too weak to resist.

When we exhibit negative emotions such as anger, rage, sadness, and ect, we become prime targets for demonic influence. When we are experiencing extreme emotions like rage, is becomes easier for us to sin, and that's all the leeway the devil and other bad spirits need to work their possessive influence on us. In a fit of rage, and/or other extreme emotions, we don't think and reason correctly, which makes possession easier.

Sometimes, demons don't need our emotions as leverage for their possessions, they can simply cause mental distress as a way to get inside our head. I've experienced this before, but by the grace of God, I made it. It's ok to be angry, and show powerful emotions, we just need to be sure to not let it get out of hand and not sin in the process.

 

[Blackmarch]

I'm a computer engineer having worked with advanced AI and neural networks. It's rubbish. Flying is based off lift theory, moon orbit etc was a hoax.

Nice!

Aerodynamics and aerospace mechanics are very complex so are neural networks, especially biological ones. Which is why i used it as a comparison. (and considering how much we take from nature, and how if we find something in nature we sooner or later find a way to replicate it to improve something)



If a concept is said to be rubbish, that generally invites one of the most famous and annoying words in the english lexicon; why?

You cannot equate all areas of science. You cannot say margarine/trans fats was good for you during the 50s etc. It is a distinct science. AI and flying are two different areas, please don't equate them. Just like blood letting in the 1700s was normal, does that invalidate all other areas?

the word id use is "compare" and you can take any two items and make a comparison... Even if all that you walk away with is that is they arent comparable. However with the two different areas of science they do share a bit more congruency than that (in this case, the aspect that they at some point appear to be foolish/ridiculous/incomprehensble to more people than not... How much or how little they share after that doesnt matter too much me)


The body needs some fat (the issue is generally getting too much of it in aform that is more difficult to process)...
They at least had the concept that it was something in the blood(but l cant think of anything else positive about it). fortunately knowledge has improved and evolved since then.... Altho are you saying here what we see now as being reasonable today will end up being rubbish? Or do yo want to make comparisons between them?

Im not seeing invalidation, but evolution

Use some discernment. Today, too many people read atabloid magazine articles or $$$cientist tax payer funded money grabbing articles and easily deceived by it.

and not enough history. What magazines do you consider authoritative and authentic? (im guessing stuff like national geo, scientific american, psychology today, and discovery fail to make the cut)

 

[Radrook]

Yes, you are correct, but a demon can only hack and possess the human mind, if the human is willing and is too weak to resist.

When we exhibit negative emotions such as anger, rage, sadness, and ect, we become prime targets for demonic influence. When we are experiencing extreme emotions like rage, is becomes easier for us to sin, and that's all the leeway the devil and other bad spirits need to work their possessive influence on us. In a fit of rage, and/or other extreme emotions, we don't think and reason correctly, which makes possession easier.

Sometimes, demons don't need our emotions as leverage for their possessions, they can simply cause mental distress as a way to get inside our head. I've experienced this before, but by the grace of God, I made it. It's ok to be angry, and show powerful emotions, we just need to be sure to not let it get out of hand and not sin in the process.

The problem is that those who design the AI aren't designing it to be demon-possession proof. Actually, even if they were aware of that danger there is nothing that they can do to prevent it since the manner of such a possession would not be understood. So it comes down to the relationship between the owner of the AI and God. As Christians we trust that God would stop demons from tampering with our AI just as he prevents them from tampering with our cars in order to harm us. So the ones in real danger of such an eventuality would be atheists, agnostics, and others who are outside the protective canopy of God's power.

My Refuge and My Fortress

Psalm 91:
…9For you have made the LORD, my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place. 10No evil will befall you, Nor will any plague come near your tent. 11For He will give His angels charge concerning you, To guard you in all your ways.…

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Yes, you are correct, but a demon can only hack and possess the human mind, if the human is willing and is too weak to resist.

When we exhibit negative emotions such as anger, rage, sadness, and ect, we become prime targets for demonic influence. When we are experiencing extreme emotions like rage, is becomes easier for us to sin, and that's all the leeway the devil and other bad spirits need to work their possessive influence on us. In a fit of rage, and/or other extreme emotions, we don't think and reason correctly, which makes possession easier.

Sometimes, demons don't need our emotions as leverage for their possessions, they can simply cause mental distress as a way to get inside our head. I've experienced this before, but by the grace of God, I made it. It's ok to be angry, and show powerful emotions, we just need to be sure to not let it get out of hand and not sin in the process.

I agree there is a difference between oppression and possession - and there is a certain amount of permission that must be given for this to occur.

But, demons are not "gentlemen" like angels; they will invade if given just a crack. Often times, the "oppression" is the attempt to possess, but as you said perhaps there is a strength of resistence, or the vessel is already full (of the Holy Spirit, or another entity,) and the spirit of the demon tries to evict them if they can.

But, most people don't realize the subtleties that allows cracks in the "vessel" so that one is demonic ally oppressed, and ultimately possessed. Sometimes the demons work very long, hidden in the subconscious, as it were, and emerging at careful or opportunistic times.

The point of demonic possession isn't so much about the "scary" elements of a possession. The point is mainly to gain a vessel that their wandering, restless spirit can take refuge in. Even if it means killing the vessel, the amount of time spent in the vessel as a demon is worth it, because without it they wander tirelessly. They were even fine being in swine for just a bit - if it meant that they weren't sent to hell, and got to spend a moment in a different vessel.

So, that is what worries me about AI - the incident of a self-learning vessel with none of the spiritual resistance of a human, and their desperate need for any vessel. I think humans should be slow to embrace a dimension of "life" that hugs the line of abomination. Demons can already attach to inanimate objects, but we are literally providing animated, intelligent vessels for these entities to fill. It leads to technological necromancy under the guise of "self aware" AI.

 

[Radrook]

Yes.

We are already at war with AI, most all of us just don't realize it because "SKYNET hasn't become self aware, and taken control of the world''s military" - as far as we can perceive.

Have you read the short story "I have no Mouth but Must scream"? It's about what a Sky Net type computer who feels abused by humanity does to humanity and its aftermath.



Of course Christians know that God would never allow that to happen.

 

[Radrook]

Yes, you are correct, but a demon can only hack and possess the human mind, if the human is willing and is too weak to resist.

When we exhibit negative emotions such as anger, rage, sadness, and ect, we become prime targets for demonic influence. When we are experiencing extreme emotions like rage, is becomes easier for us to sin, and that's all the leeway the devil and other bad spirits need to work their possessive influence on us. In a fit of rage, and/or other extreme emotions, we don't think and reason correctly, which makes possession easier.

Sometimes, demons don't need our emotions as leverage for their possessions, they can simply cause mental distress as a way to get inside our head. I've experienced this before, but by the grace of God, I made it. It's ok to be angry, and show powerful emotions, we just need to be sure to not let it get out of hand and not sin in the process.

So we can't have the luxury of anger or sadness without a demon immediately swan diving into our body via the most available orifice! That is truly a bummer.

 

[Quad]

So we can't have the luxury of anger or sadness without a demon immediately swan diving into our body via the most available orifice! That is truly a bummer.

I see what you mean. A Demon may not always attack you if there aren't any demons present in the area. We can express strong emotions such as anger and sadness, we just have to be on guard and prepared to defend our mental and spiritual disposition from evil spirits that may be present. There's a good verse I remember

1 Peter 5:8

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.