Is God a liar?

Smidlee

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God is not limited at all. He created the singularity of the big bang and with his created laws of the universe, the universe was created as we see it today. The universe is expanding which can not be denied. Where is it expanding from? Do you believe in a static universe? A static universe needs no creator. Only a universe that came from nothing needs a creator and only a universe in which time and space is created needs a creator who is outside of time amd space (i.e. Eternal). Once again, why would God created a universe with so much evidence of it being ancient if it is not ancient? A literal interpretation of Genesis points to the Big Bang.
I totally disagree as I pointed out you are assuming the principle of continuity is true. Even a figuratively interpretation of Genesis goes against this principle. (Day one you have light before the mention of the sun, moon and stars which ancient men worshiped.)
Man can created universes with age so you don't believe God can't do the same with His universe? The scripture make it clear the "universe" itself is a witness of God who is the Ancient of Days.
You also seem to miss the fact the universe is just as much mental and it's physical.
Even if the universe today is expanding it doesn't mean the Big Bang is true as it still relies on this religious principle to be true. I believe it false and goes against scripture. This is why the Big Bang needs so many fudge factors to make it work.

As I posted before
It's like a truck goes down the highway is clocked by a cop at 649 miles from the coast going 65 mph. Another cop clocks the same truck one mile down the road going 65mph at noon. Both cops get together to compared data and proclaims the truck came out of the ocean at 2am that morning. Of course this assumption is totally based there is no intelligence involved and the truck never changed speed or direction. This is exactly how man comes up with the age of the universe and never questions if the principle of continuity is actually true.
 
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Humble Servant of Christ

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I totally disagree as I pointed out you are assuming the principle of continuity is true. Even a figuratively interpretation of Genesis goes against this principle. (Day one you have light before the mention of the sun, moon and stars which ancient men worshiped.)
Man can created universes with age so you don't believe God can't do the same with His universe? The scripture make it clear the "universe" itself is a witness of God who is the Ancient of Days.
You also seem to miss the fact the universe is just as much mental and it's physical.
Even if the universe today is expanding it doesn't mean the Big Bang is true as it still relies on this religious principle to be true. I believe it false and goes against scripture. This is why the Big Bang needs so many fudge factors to make it work.

As I posted before
Since you are continuously quoting the principle of continuity, please define it. Are you referring ot the original generic mathematicla theorem as proposed by Gottfried Whilhem Leibniz? Or are you refering to the portion used in the laws of conservation using the divergence theorem? Or are you talking about fluid dynamics? Or are you refering to its use in quantum mechanics? Please be more specific as to which use of principle of continuity is incorrect?

A literal interpretation of Genesis from the perspective of the earth describes the perspective looking at creation from the surface of the earth. As the earth's atmosphere condenses, light filters in from the sun. Only after the atmosphere further condenses is the sun and moon visable . Let us remember that Moses was seeing the events of creation at a summary level from the earth's perspective since that was his point of reference. He has no knowledge that the sun was a gaseous sphere.

There are many interpretations in the bible. Without interpretations, one would conclude that Ecclesiastes 1:5 states the sun moves around the earth and hastens to its place it rises. Do you not interpret this from the earth's perpective? Do you believe joshua 9:6 literally means the earth has pillars that is rests one? Revelations 20:8 speaks of the 4 corners of the earth. A sphere has no corners so do you believe the earth is flat? Do you read Job 38:13 to mean the earth has a skirt?

Why don't you believe in a flat earth and the sun is a disc that revolves around it? The verses above would point to a flat earth. There are others as well.

As far as the "mental side" of the universe, please keep those beliefs to a new age website.

The big bang is perfectly described in Genesis. God created all matter, space and time out of nothing. His created laws of physics created the exact universe as we see it today. Of course the big bamg needs God. He is the creator of it and the cause before time and matter.

Most young earth folks tie evolution to the big bang. They are mutually exclusive. I dont believe in macro evolution and i dont think science or the fossil records support it.

I put faith in James 1:13...for God is not tempted by evil nor does he tempt anyone. Why would the laws of the universe that God created be in place to tempt Christians? We can disgree on interpretaions but let us all admit that all Christians use interpretations in reading the Bible. That is not say we believe the Bible contains fairy tales but words like the corners of the earth don't mean the earth has corners and therefore is not a sphere.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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. . .Who was going to tell them that? . . .

In evolution theory, nobody "tells" the species how to evolve. The environment allows one variation to reproduce better than another, and that difference is built upon again when more variation comes along.
 
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Colter

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All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?
Genesis is a creation of the Hebrew priest culling together Mesopotamian lore.
 
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BobRyan

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In evolution theory, nobody "tells" the species how to evolve. The environment allows one variation to reproduce better than another, and that difference is built upon again when more variation comes along.

50,000 generations to "test out that speculation" about environment allowing bacteria to 'acquire' genetic code/programming to create a nucleus and wall - observations in nature - disprove it.

======================================================


The religion of blind faith evolutionism confidently affirms "the belief" that " a pile of dirt will sure enough produce a rabbit over time , given a large and talented enough pile of dirt AND given a long and talented enough length of time filled with just-so stories all the way to the top of mount improbable, stories easy enough to tell but they are not science, not at all compatible with the Bible doctrine on origins".

Dawkins' "mount improbable"
Darwin's "not at all compatible with the Bible doctrine on origins" (Also James Barr on that point)
Colin Patterson's "just-so stories easy enough to tell, but they are not science"
Asimov's "molecule to human brain" sequence only faintly echoed in the "dirt to human brain" example




As you wish. You have free will and so you are free to wish whatever you want. I would never argue otherwise.

meantime - one of your own atheist evolutionist leadership has a "more frank" assessment.


=================================

Collin Patterson - Paleontologist British Museum of Natural history
On April 10, 1979, Patterson replied to the author (Sunderland) in a most candid letter as follows:

April 10, 1979 Letter from Colin Patterson to Sunderland

"You say that I should at least show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived. I will lay it on the line- there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.[The reason is that statements about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record. Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test. So, much as I should like to oblige you by jumping to the defence of gradualism, and fleshing out the transitions between the major types of animals and plants, I find myself a bit short of the intellectual justification necessary for the job “

==============

[Ref: Patterson, personal communication. Documented in Darwin’s Enigma, Luther Sunderland, Master Books, El Cajon, CA, 1988, pp. 88-90.]

==========================================

Collin Patterson (atheist and diehard evolutionist to the day he died in 1998) - Paleontologist British Museum of Natural history speaking at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 - said:


Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians are "'...holding creationist ideas and could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"


Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"

"...Now I think that many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here...

"...,Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge , apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics..."


“Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing…that is true?

I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural history and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology seminar in the University of Chicago, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said “I know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school

"...I'm speaking on two subjects, evolution and creationism, and I believe it's true to say that I know nothing whatever about either...One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, well, let's call it non-evolutionary , was last year I had a sudden realization.

"For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. "That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long...

It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that's all we know about it...

about eighteen months ago...I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolution as revealed truth in some way."

========================================

These are not the much-expected frank confessions one would expect of a chemist, a physicist, a mathematician, a software engineer, an electrical engineer.

No my friends for that sort of "confession" you "need" an evolutionist -- one who firmly "believes in" -- evolutionism.

"It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test."
 
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Colter

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50,000 generations to "test out that speculation" - observations in nature - disprove it.

======================================================




"It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test."
Humans evolved from the life creation event organized by God.
 
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Aman777

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Genesis is a creation of the Hebrew priest culling together Mesopotamian lore.

False, since the Holy Spirit told us that Noah walked down from Lake Van, to the valleys of northern Mesopotamia, in order to grow grapes for wine. It was the FIRST crop ever planted on the present Earth since prehistoric people did not have the superior intelligence of God, as Adam did, Gen 3:22 Adam farmed with NO magical evolution. Adam is the common ancestor of ALL Humans and his superior intelligence was inside the people who arrived in the Ark 11k years ago exactly as God told us in Genesis. God Bless you
 
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joinfree

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All the scientific evidence points to an ancient earth. Furthermore, the fossil records support the slow change of species over time, such as dinosaurs to birds. *IF* these things are not true, it would follow that God deliberately created a world with false scientific data. Right? So then this begs the questions...

Did God lie?
And if God lied, why?

What do you believe?
Holy God can not sin, so the sinners are Darwinists. They simply say a wishful things. We, however, have own sources:
Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - Earth Science Associates
 
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Colter

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False, since the Holy Spirit told us that Noah walked down from Lake Van, to the valleys of northern Mesopotamia, in order to grow grapes for wine. It was the FIRST crop ever planted on the present Earth since prehistoric people did not have the superior intelligence of God, as Adam did, Gen 3:22 Adam farmed with NO magical evolution. Adam is the common ancestor of ALL Humans and his superior intelligence was inside the people who arrived in the Ark 11k years ago exactly as God told us in Genesis. God Bless you
You have a vivid imagination, so anything is possible.
 
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Colter

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Some people think that to merely deny something succeeds in debunking it.
If he had never heard of the Bible and just used a little common sence, he would realize how rediculous the Hebrews creation story is today in modern times.
 
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Aman777

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You have a vivid imagination, so anything is possible.

Where would you put a 450 ft ship? On top of a 16k ft high, snow covered mountain in January? Or in the biggest Lake in Turkey 11k feet lower in elevation? Where did the Raven go IF the entire world was covered in water? How did the Olive tree germinate in the mud after the flood, grow up and put forth leaves for the Dove to pluck off and take back to the Ark, in just 7-24 hour days? Have you ever actually read the story of the flood?

BTW: The Ark was above the highest mountains on Adam's Earth on the 150th day after the flood began. Gen 7:20-24...AND....the Ark was also resting upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began. Gen 8:4 Please explain that with your understanding of the story of Noah's flood. The answer is really simple. God Bless you
 
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Colter

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Where would you put a 450 ft ship? On top of a 16k ft high, snow covered mountain in January? Or in the biggest Lake in Turkey 11k feet lower in elevation? Where did the Raven go IF the entire world was covered in water? How did the Olive tree germinate in the mud after the flood, grow up and put forth leaves for the Dove to pluck off and take back to the Ark, in just 7-24 hour days? Have you ever actually read the story of the flood?

BTW: The Ark was above the highest mountains on Adam's Earth on the 150th day after the flood began. Gen 7:20-24...AND....the Ark was also resting upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began. Gen 8:4 Please explain that with your understanding of the story of Noah's flood. The answer is really simple. God Bless you
The flood story was a genealogical devise used by the Hebrew priest who redacted, expanded and vastly exaggerated Israelite history. The flood is a terribly misleading fiction used to trace bloodlines back to Adam. Unable to do so they decided to drown the whole world.
 
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BobRyan

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Was there selection pressure? No selection pressure = no test.

There never is - evolutionism is myth.... religion. Hence we still have bacteria.

50,000 generations to "test out that speculation" - observations in nature - disprove it.

"It is easy enough to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test."
 
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BobRyan

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The flood story was a genealogical devise used by the Hebrew priest who redacted, expanded and vastly exaggerated Israelite history.

We get that from our atheist friends all the time. Already debunked
 
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BobRyan

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Genesis is a creation of the Hebrew priest culling together Mesopotamian lore.

we get that from atheists all the time. already been debunked


Some people think that to merely deny something succeeds in debunking it.

Even you have to admit to atheists making that very accusation against the Bible.

In Colter's religion -- Urantia is right and the Bible is wrong.

For atheist evolutionists - evolutionism is right and the Bible is most certainly wrong.
 
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