Why does God allow certain people to be born when God knows that individual may turn against him?

[Ray Blick]

I hope this isn't a stupid question but I ponder on this question. Why does God form someone, if he knows that person will reject Him and end up in hell or become a killer for example Andrei Chikatilo, who ended the lives of 50 something people. God knows us before we are brought to this earth, knows our innermost self, and knows what our choices will be or will make so why bother forming them in the womb? The bible says that the majority of the people in this world will be in hell, and only a few will find heaven. That's a sad truth, yet God created us knowing we have that potential of falling away from Him.

Jeremiah 1:4-5

We must know who we are in Him. Ephesians 2:6 For He has raised us up and seated us with Him in heavenly places.
Every born again believer must realise this that we are citizens of heaven and co heirs with Christ because we are in Him.
Problem is at times we look at our position from an earthly prospective, this brings those kind of 'Russian roulette' god type thinking.
It's not the Fathers will that anyone should perish. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
The Kindom of heaven is inside of every born again Spirit filled believer.
When we truely believe who we are in Christ then we cultivate a relationship with Him.

We are no longer tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and trickery of men.

For when we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Job repented after he had a long and lengthy ordeal questioning his pitiful existance and the Lord said to Job "who is this that darkens counsel without knowledge?"

Some things we just need to leave alone and let God be God.

 

[Serving Zion]

We must know who we are in Him. Ephesians 2:6 For He has raised us up and seated us with Him in heavenly places.
Every born again believer must realise this that we are citizens of heaven and co heirs with Christ because we are in Him.
Problem is at times we look at our position from an earthly prospective, this brings those kind of 'Russian roulette' god type thinking.
It's not the Fathers will that anyone should perish. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
The Kindom of heaven is inside of every born again Spirit filled believer.
When we truely believe who we are in Christ then we cultivate a relationship with Him.

We are no longer tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and trickery of men.

For when we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Job repented after he had a long and lengthy ordeal questioning his pitiful existance and the Lord said to Job "who is this that darkens counsel without knowledge?"

Some things we just need to leave alone and let God be God.

Hi brother, this is really insightful and helpful - it speaks to me, but I was just concerned it doesn't seem to give much comfort to the OP, who is concerned about real terrible tragedies like the Manchester bombing etc that is still going on. It seems to me that you're possessing a knowledge as a context for your post here that might benefit the OP. I just wish to ask if you'd elaborate a bit to give us some hope to go along with your wisdom. Thanks!

 

[Ray Blick]

Hi brother, this is really insightful and helpful - it speaks to me, but I was just concerned it doesn't seem to give much comfort to the OP, who is concerned about real terrible tragedies like the Manchester bombing etc that is still going on. It seems to me that you're possessing a knowledge as a context for your post here that might benefit the OP. I just wish to ask if you'd elaborate a bit to give us some hope to go along with your wisdom. Thanks!

Hello SZ
Just read the OP and yes, sorry for posting a lopsided post.
I used to look at predestination and have the same concerns with the concern of falling away from God.
I come to understand that we have a choice to where we are to spend eternity and that is with Jesus or without Him.
It's kind of like being married and I do believe that is why Jesus hates divorce, not the divorcees, just the separation of soul mates, I've found this through sticking through the tough times with my spouse.
It's like that with God I believe.
The Lord simply knows who are His and His kindness allows rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous.
He doesn't hate anybody.
The message of f the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
All of the disasters in the world are because of the fall and massacres like the Manchester bombings are because of sin of course and Jesus did say that before He returns there will be all the stuff we are seeing and experiencing which raises the questions about predestination.

The gospel message is powerful and it's not the Lord's will for any to perish so when we know that we are walking in the light of life then we know that nothing can snatch us from the Father's arms. We are safe. We are saved. We trust in the Lord as 'He who began a good work in you will carry it through to completion until the day of He Lord Jesus.' Philippians 1:6

It's true, not all will be saved but as citizens of heaven our prayers individually and corporately are powerful as we pray from heavens realm in line with the Father. Because the word tells us that the prayers of a righteous man are powerful and effective.

We can, and I've done this, navel gaze and wonder who will be saved but realise that Jesus told us to pray for our enemies, as we pray to the Father in Jesus name.

Jesus also said 'let the dead bury their dead' and 'shake the dust of your feet' as a testimony against them.

Came to realise also that how could I trust my prayers for people and situations if I wasn't sure if I was saved? It's not by anything that we have done it's simply by His wonderful grace through faith in Jesus and what He has done that we are saved.

Street evangelism opened my eyes. It was tough, I don't do it anymore because of how tough it was. Perhaps I'm a coward, but I know that He will never leave me or forsake me.

Some people in their mid teens had never heard of Jesus here in the western world!

It was sad at the time because people wanted nothing to do with the gospel message. But some did hallelujah and we got to pray with them.

My advice to the OP would be to let God be God and be thankful and remain faithful to Him as He is all knowing and is concerned for our concerns.

Blessings

 

[Theadorus]

For God said to Moses, "I will show Mercy to anyone I choose and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." So receiving God's promises not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will God will show Mercy to anyone he chooses. For the scriptures say that God told pharaoh, "I have appointed you for the very purpose of display my power in you, and so that my fame might spread throughout the Earth." So you see, God shows Mercy to some just because you want to, any juices to make some people refuse to listen. Well then, you might say, "why does God blame people for not listening? Have it they simply done what he made them do? No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to criticize God? Should the thing that was created to the one who made it, "why have you made me like this?" When a powder makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have right to use same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? God has every right to exercise his judgment and his power, but he also has the right to be very patient with those who are objects of his judgment and are fit only for Destruction.

Romans 9:15-22

This is what I meant about God showing Mercy to some and not others. And it is this reason that I am always going to question my salvation.

Paul was drawing an illustration from an Old Testament passage of Scripture, Jeremiah 18:3-6. In that passage, God sent Jeremiah to the potter’s house to learn a lesson. The potter was making a vessel; it was marred, so he remade it. The Lord spoke to Jeremiah and said, “O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter?...Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel” (Jeremiah 18:6).

From this illustration, some people have drawn a wrong conclusion that the Lord creates some people evil and predestined to a life of damnation, not by their choice, but by God’s. However, a closer look at the passage in Jeremiah and its context will show that is not the case.

First of all, the potter started to create a good vessel, but the clay was marred. Whose fault was that? It wasn’t the potter’s fault. The clay was faulty. The potter took this imperfect clay, and instead of discarding it, he refashioned it into another vessel that may not have been worth nearly as much as his original design but was still useful.

Likewise, the Lord does not create certain individuals for destruction. However, some do become marred by their own choices, not due to any fault of the Creator. Instead of just removing them from the earth, the Lord will endure (Romans 9:22) their atrocities. He may even put them in great positions of authority, such as He did with Pharaoh, so that He may manifest His great power through His victory over them and their devices. God can still use someone who has rejected Him, in the same way that a potter can take a marred piece of clay and find some use for it.

By continuing to read the context of Jeremiah’s experience with the potter, it can be clearly seen that the Lord does not do these things against the will of the individual. In Jeremiah 18:7-10, the Lord said that when He purposes evil or good against a nation, if that nation repents, then God will change His plans for them. That undeniably states that man’s choice influences God’s choice.

 

[Theadorus]

I also want to reply to this statement, "And it is this reason that I am always going to question my salvation."

When it comes to your salvation, you have nothing to fear, and you will never have anything to fear. Ephesian 1:13-14, tell us that moment we believe on Christ not only are we saved, but we are then seal with the Holy Spirit as a promise guaranteeing our admission into heaven. So no matter how unfaithful, or unworthy you feel about getting into heaven, the fact of the matter is you are going to end there whether you like it or not. Jesus' sacrifice is bigger than any sin you can ever commit.

Now my next statement is not in any way intended to be offensive, and I apologize if I come off offensive, but for anyone to constantly question themselves in this way, or feel as condemned as you feel, really doesn't understand what Jesus did for them. It sounds like you have been raised up in some pretty strict doctrine, that uses the Bible as a beating rod, rather than a book of hope. The message of the Gospel is a message of how much God loves you, and how he sent Jesus to die on the cross so that we could be brought back into relationship with him. The same spirit that was in Jesus, is the same spirit that lives within us, and when God looks at us, he doesn't see us as who we are in our flesh, but he see us as who we are in the spirit. And in the spirit we are perfect in God's eyes, we are Holy, Pure, Blameless, righteous, and Loved. I suggest you read Ephesian.

You can take this as a thus sayith the Lord, or a verily verily response, but the fact of the matter is God loves you, and when die, you WILL end up heaven. Because the truth is, even if we are faithless, he still remains faithful, for he cannot, or will not deny himself (2 Tim 2:13)

Find some teaching on grace, those will completely change your life.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

I also want to reply to this statement, "And it is this reason that I am always going to question my salvation."

When it comes to your salvation, you have nothing to fear, and you will never have anything to fear. Ephesian 1:13-14, tell us that moment we believe on Christ not only are we saved, but we are then seal with the Holy Spirit as a promise guaranteeing our admission into heaven. So no matter how unfaithful, or unworthy you feel about getting into heaven, the fact of the matter is you are going to end there whether you like it or not. Jesus' sacrifice is bigger than any sin you can ever commit.

Now my next statement is not in any way intended to be offensive, and I apologize if I come off offensive, but for anyone to constantly question themselves in this way, or feel as condemned as you feel, really doesn't understand what Jesus did for them. It sounds like you have been raised up in some pretty strict doctrine, that uses the Bible as a beating rod, rather than a book of hope. The message of the Gospel is a message of how much God loves you, and how he sent Jesus to die on the cross so that we could be brought back into relationship with him. The same spirit that was in Jesus, is the same spirit that lives within us, and when God looks at us, he doesn't see us as who we are in our flesh, but he see us as who we are in the spirit. And in the spirit we are perfect in God's eyes, we are Holy, Pure, Blameless, righteous, and Loved. I suggest you read Ephesian.

You can take this as a thus sayith the Lord, or a verily verily response, but the fact of the matter is God loves you, and when die, you WILL end up heaven. Because the truth is, even if we are faithless, he still remains faithful, for he cannot, or will not deny himself (2 Tim 2:13)

Find some teaching on grace, those will completely change your life.

Thank you very much. I know it's about time that I stop questioning my salvation and just seek him. And I should spend time thanking him. Thank you very much.

 

[Theadorus]

Thank you very much. I know it's about time that I stop questioning my salvation and just seek him. And I should spend time thanking him. Thank you very much.

No problem at all. I grew up in a church that preach really hard on sin and throughout my christian walk i constantly felt as though i was just one mistske away from ended up in hell. I was told that if i died with unconfessed sin in my life i would end up in hell. No questions asked. Imagine how tormenting that was. Because no matter how good i tried to be, i always seemed to mess up. It felt hopeless, and it was hard to imagine how anyone got into heaven. it got to the point where i walked away from God for 7 years. After that 7 years God led me to a man named Andrew wommack, and his message on grace and the love of God changed my life forever.

God bless, my brother. I'm also praying for you as well.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

No problem at all. I grew up in a church that preach really hard on sin and throughout my christian walk i constantly felt as though i was just one mistske away from ended up in hell. I was told that if i died with unconfessed sin in my life i would end up in hell. No questions asked. Imagine how tormenting that was. Because no matter how good i tried to be, i always seemed to mess up. It felt hopeless, and it was hard to imagine how anyone got into heaven. it got to the point where i walked away from God for 7 years. After that 7 years God led me to a man named Andrew wommack, and his message on grace and the love of God changed my life forever.

God bless, my brother. I'm also praying for you as well.

God bless you too. And thank you for your prayers.

 

[Ray Blick]

I also want to reply to this statement, "And it is this reason that I am always going to question my salvation."

When it comes to your salvation, you have nothing to fear, and you will never have anything to fear. Ephesian 1:13-14, tell us that moment we believe on Christ not only are we saved, but we are then seal with the Holy Spirit as a promise guaranteeing our admission into heaven. So no matter how unfaithful, or unworthy you feel about getting into heaven, the fact of the matter is you are going to end there whether you like it or not. Jesus' sacrifice is bigger than any sin you can ever commit.

Now my next statement is not in any way intended to be offensive, and I apologize if I come off offensive, but for anyone to constantly question themselves in this way, or feel as condemned as you feel, really doesn't understand what Jesus did for them. It sounds like you have been raised up in some pretty strict doctrine, that uses the Bible as a beating rod, rather than a book of hope. The message of the Gospel is a message of how much God loves you, and how he sent Jesus to die on the cross so that we could be brought back into relationship with him. The same spirit that was in Jesus, is the same spirit that lives within us, and when God looks at us, he doesn't see us as who we are in our flesh, but he see us as who we are in the spirit. And in the spirit we are perfect in God's eyes, we are Holy, Pure, Blameless, righteous, and Loved. I suggest you read Ephesian.

You can take this as a thus sayith the Lord, or a verily verily response, but the fact of the matter is God loves you, and when die, you WILL end up heaven. Because the truth is, even if we are faithless, he still remains faithful, for he cannot, or will not deny himself (2 Tim 2:13)

Find some teaching on grace, those will completely change your life.

Yep! Well put. Spot on.

 

[Reformationist]

God doesn't know where we are going.

Don't you love it when a completely unbiblical view is this easy to spot?

 

[Reformationist]

We ALL have the potential to do evil. However, because we have free will we ALL have the potential to choose to do what is good and right.

"Potential" isn't a word that applies as the issue being raised is why God creates those He knows will reject Him. "Potential" is a mathematical term describing probability given specified parameters. This is a term humans use because our knowledge is finite and so we calculate probability. God's knowledge is not contingent upon His creation.

As I said, it doesn't apply in a discussion about God's choices.

 

[Reformationist]

This may sound like a strange answer, but he did so because of the great love he had for us.

So God created someone that He knew before creating them would reject Him and, thus, suffer eternity in hell because...He loved them?

Unfortunately, many people chose to turn their backs on God, but that has never changed his love for us.

And why do some choose to "return His love" and some choose to "turn their back on Him?"

We deserved God's wrath, but because of his overwhelming love for his creation he chose to come into this earth, and take our punishment in order to restore the relationship between us and God.

And was He successful? Did He restore the relationship between us and God?

Again, God knew this would all happen, but he still chose to do it anyways, and why? Because even if only one person chose to love him back, to God, it was worth it. The same is true when it comes to salvation, and that If Jesus knew that only 1 person would accept him as Lord and savior, he still would have suffered all he went through in order to save that one person.

But didn't Jesus know exactly who would embrace Him and who would reject Him, and didn't He know who those people were before they were even created?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Don't you love it when a completely unbiblical view is this easy to spot?

I does make it very easy to spot, but twice as difficult to convince an opponent of his error.

 

[Reformationist]

I does make it very easy to spot, but twice as difficult to convince an opponent of his error.

Generally that seems to be the case. You pray about it, do your best, and leave the rest to God. That's all you can do.

 

[Reformationist]

Do you agree God could not “make” another Christ from the outset of the other Christ’s existence?

The first Christ didn't have an "outset" so your point is moot.

God has certainly predestined (foreordained) most things to happen:

Wrong. God foreordained ALL that comes to pass:

Matt 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Would it still be God predestinating man: if God predestined to give at least some individuals the ability to make a very limited autonomous free will choice to accept or reject His Love (pure charity)?

Granting autonomy is not possible. It is an incommunicable trait. Is it that you think man's cognizant recognition of embracing God somehow serves as the catalyst for his appropriation of salvation?

Could God “determine” that some choices would be left to some individual’s to make?

Individuals DO make choices. It's just that one of those choices isn't whether to be saved.

 

[Reformationist]

No one deserves to be roasted alive forever.

Her who does not recognize the infinite holiness of the Lawgiver can never recognize the breadth of the transgression.

 

[Radrook]

Her who does not recognize the infinite holiness of the Lawgiver can never recognize the breadth of the transgression.

You can keep your human roasting lawgiver since it's not the god I worship or could ever worship.

 

[Reformationist]

You can keep your human roasting lawgiver since it's not the god I worship or could ever worship.

Lol! Feel however pleases you. That's between you and God. I'll simply put out that the very thing that got humanity into trouble in the first place was man's desire to not submit to God's authority. Way to keep the trend alive.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Why does God save anyone? Don't we all deserve to go to hell?

Simple, because eternal torture is evil and the opposite of love.

 

[Reformationist]

One of the oddest (or maybe not so odd) things I've seen in this thread is the rapid change of focus from what was asked in the OP to how the majority of you have answered.

The original question asked was, "Why does GOD allow certain people to be born when GOD knows that individual may turn against him?"

Naturally, out march the "free will" sycophants. The question was why GOD creates someone given that knowledge. It wasn't about what gives man the ability to choose God. I've seen no one argue everyone will be saved so, clearly, we all believe some are going to hell. Didn't God know that they would go to hell BEFORE He created them?