Mary

[PeaceB]

No one need go that far. She was mortal and Genesis tells us when Adam and Eve sinned and received the curses that then Adam named the woman Eve for she would become the mother of all the living...thus passing all the curses to all the living...one of the curses is sin of course.

Was Jesus not alive? Was Jesus not fully human? If you follow this logic then you must conclude that Jesus also sinned.

To refuse to say Mary is one of these sinful, sin-natured, living beings is to place her on the same level as Christ

No, it is not. She was preserved from sin by a special grace given to her from God. She did not remain free from sin merely by her own power, but as a gift from God.

 

[W2L]

Then why don't you tell us what sin she committed?

I dont need to. If you believe that any man or woman was sinless then you believe a lie. I cannot believe Catholics actually think Mary was sinless. You show exactly why protestants can never agree with Catholicism.

 

[makeajoyfulnoise100]

Ok I see where you're coming from. Earlier I mentioned that when we pray to saints what we are really doing is asking them to pray for us. We're essentially just communicating with them and not sending our prayers to them as if they are powers unto themselves in substitution of God. As an example I pray the rosary and I'll pray it for specific intentions. Let's say I pray it for the intention of getting a new job. What I'm doing is asking Mary to pray to God that I get a new job. If I were to ask a fellow Christian to pray for me that I get a new job, what they're doing is praying to God that I get a new job. The only difference between the two is one is in heaven while the other is still on Earth. That's about the best way I can think of explaining it so I hope that makes it clearer.

What I've never understood about that is why can't you have a relationship with God through prayer and not need the dead who are experiencing either Judgement or their place in Heaven? God gave the OT to Hebrews as the guidelines to which to live in order to love Him. Though racially we may not be Hebrew, Christ came to fulfill the commandments for all.
I've had dreams where I was talking and noticing my dead uncle, but that was because I missed him and was playing a happy ending scenario in my head. Whether or not my uncle is in Heaven is ultimately up to God for God only knew his soul. Praying to him to talk to God seems like God is too unemotionally detached from the living. Same with any of the saints. Mary being a virgin and giving birth is incredible and unfathomable but still, why would you want to bother her while she is experiencing peace? If you need something God will provide given that you obey His commandments.

 

[PeaceB]

No, read the Scriptures instead...your sources are very telling of your theology.

Please. My sources are the Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Church that Jesus Christ personally founded while he walked the Earth. And you wouldn't even know what Scripture was if that Church did not tell you.

 

[W2L]

The Holy spirit lives in me, and i was a sinner. Why does Mary need to be sinless then?

 

[PeaceB]

I dont need to. If you believe that any man or woman was sinless then you believe a lie. I cannot believe Catholics actually think Mary was sinless. You show exactly why protestants can never agree with Catholicism.

Your father of the Protestant faith Martin Luther believed that Mary was sinless.

 

[W2L]

Your father of the Protestant faith Martin Luther believed that Mary was sinless.

Luther was not my father, nor do i follow his writings. God is my father. The Word which He sent guides me.

 

[Sam91]

God is the Father of my faith. Matthew 23:9

 

[PeaceB]

Luther was not my father, nor do i follow his writings. God is my father. The Word which He sent guides me.

Yeah. The Holy Spirit guides all of you, but after 500 years you cannot even agree on basic things such as OSAS or whether infants should be baptized. I guess the Holy Spirit has a different truth for each person.

 

[Sam91]

I'm unfollowing this. It is not a fruitful conversation. It isn't going anywhere other than arguing over scripture/ theology/ doctrine. It's not wise.

 

[makeajoyfulnoise100]

Was Jesus not alive? Was Jesus not fully human? If you follow this logic then you must conclude that Jesus also sinned.


No, it is not. She was preserved from sin by a special grace given to her from God. She did not remain free from sin merely by her own power, but as a gift from God.

Yeshua never sinned because He was fulfilling God's philosophy which has always been the 10 commandments. We don't see any sin from Mary in the books which is why you can conclude she was a good person, but even still good works don't give you salvation.

 

[Sam91]

.

 

[W2L]

Yeah. The Holy Spirit guides all of you, but after 500 years you cannot even agree on basic things such as OSAS or whether infants should be baptized. I guess the Holy Spirit has a different truth for each person.

As if your Church doesn't have splits and factions. Get real please

 

[W2L]

I'm unfollowing this. It is not a fruitful conversation. It isn't going anywhere other than arguing over scripture/ theology/ doctrine. It's not wise.

I agree. I'll try my best to stay away.

 

[Jack Isaacks]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to. Dont get me wrong, im not here to bash Catholics, or to debate prayers. I just dont understand why we need Mary when we have the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Intercessor, the Teacher, the Lamp for our feet, and the Light of the world.

Why limit the gifts God gives us?

Marian devotion makes sense ONLY in the light of sound Christology. I want it thoroughly understood that Mariology is a subject I would not touch except after about 6-10 sessions on Eastern Orthodox Christology, were I teaching catechumens.

But if anyone denies that the holy Theotokos Mary has anything to do in our lives, I know better, as all other Orthodox do.

Christ is risen!

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Was Jesus not alive? Was Jesus not fully human? If you follow this logic then you must conclude that Jesus also sinned.


No, it is not. She was preserved from sin by a special grace given to her from God. She did not remain free from sin merely by her own power, but as a gift from God.

Again, you are elevating her position. Give me your references...chapter and verse.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Please. My sources are the Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Church that Jesus Christ personally founded while he walked the Earth. And you wouldn't even know what Scripture was if that Church did not tell you.

Chapter, verse or it's worthless.

 

[Aldebaran]

Please. My sources are the Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Church that Jesus Christ personally founded while he walked the Earth. And you wouldn't even know what Scripture was if that Church did not tell you.

Here's something in scripture that was said by Jesus Himself:

Luke 11:27-28--"As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Notice that He didn't respond by saying, "Correct! And that's why you should pray to her." In fact, it was just at the beginning of the same chapter where He said to pray to the Father.

 

[PeaceB]

Chapter, verse or it's worthless.

You can start with these:

28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!" 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.

24 Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, 25 to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Coleton Bryce Ritmanich]

Proverbs 3:5-7 "Trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in your own eyes: fear the Lord and depart from evil."

I came here not to see people arguing, I came here because I love God, and because God Loves everyone. I thought that God put me here to fellowship with other Christians, but I see all of this and I think that we've all missed the point.

The Question was Why do people pray to Mary? I don't think God wants us to argue but to love one another. People pray to Mary because they choose to. The Holy Bible is God's Word. Everything from the first word of Genesis to the very last punctuation mark of Revelations is his word.

I think someone said that we don't pray to Mary, we just ask her to pray to the Father. But I think that when Jesus tore the Veil from top to bottom, God said we don't have to go through anyone person to get your prayers to the Father, and that as long as we have Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we could have our prayers go straight to him, through the Holy Spirit.

We are all entitled to our own beliefs, that's why God gave us free will. To love him without being forced to. All he wants is a relationship with us, a close, loving friendship. He LOVES us and all he asks is that we Love him with all we are, and Love others as he loves them.

People are people too. We all have feelings and emotions, but I think sometimes we forget that God Almighty,behind all of his power,
is a person too. He has feelings and emotions too. He LOVES us SO much. Why can't we love each other like Jesus Loves us.

Jesus said, no greater love hath a man than he would give his life for his friend. Would all of you be willing to die for each other? I would. I don't know any of you, but God knows you, and that's enough for me.

Please stop arguing and remember GOD is GOD and there is none other, and remember that he has a Heart too, complete with feelings, Love and Compassion, just like us. Before you type another letter, I ask you in Jesus Christ's Holy Name, think deeply, and ask yourself, "What would Jesus do?" What would Jesus' response to the original poster be? Would he even consider praying to anyone but his Father? Would he argue his beliefs? Or would he be humble?

God has feelings too, and he doesn't want to be forgotten, so please remember God in everything you do. And ask yourself, "What would Jesus Christ do?"

God Bless you all, in Jesus Christ Holy Name, Amen.