Mary

[GreekOrthodox]

Not scripture supported.

I was simply answering your question of when we start seeing prayers to the dead show up in the historical records.

It could be other person other than Mary. She is just a vehicle for Jesus to be born in human flesh. So, we can't be saying without Mary there is no Messiah. You are basically suggesting there is Messiah because of Mary not there is Mary because of Messiah. It would literally means Messiah was created because of Mary. Christ is in existence before Mary not the other way round.

And that sums up the real heresy of EVERY Protestant denomination. Mary means nothing in Protestant theology. In fact, the Incarnation is not a mystery to them. The Incarnation is also merely a way to get Jesus to die to satisfy the wrath of God. In Protestantism there is no love from God, only wrath. God HATES you and every human who ever lived and wants nothing more to torture you forever in hell and never forget that.

Only a Protestant would preach this:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. - Rev. Jonathan Edwards AD1741

 

[Aramazd]

Well, this thread has ran its course, i suppose im done now. Debates like this tend to strengthen my belief in liberty from religion. Praise the Lord for His spirit, who sets me free from this religious mess.

One thing that I will tell you. Peter started the Original church, the original church in Rome Matthew 16:18(see below). That is why there is such a thing called the Apostles Creed. Read this and it will give you lots of answers, I cant change your mind and make you believe, only you can believe what is true to your heart. Even if its wrong, I pray to Mary that she will intercede to Jesus on your behalf.

Apostoles Creed - "I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen."






Matthew 16:18New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

18 And I tell you, you are Peter,a]'>[a] and on this rockb]'>[b] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Footnotes:

1. Matthew 16:18 Gk Petros
2. Matthew 16:18 Gk petra

 

[throughfiierytrial]

You would not even know what the Bible is without going outside of it. What book of the New Testament tells you which 27 writings are the inspired word of God, and which writings are not?

You are sounding quite lost.

 

[PeaceB]

No. Mary is mortal human being. She is not GOD

Do people in Heaven die? That is news to me.

She is human and she is not God, but nobody here believes that she is God. Do you know what a straw man argument is?

 

[W2L]

The Lord is not only our intercessor but our advocate as well. We need no man to teach us how to pray, because the Lord already taught us how. Liberty in the spirit is refreshing.

1 John 2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will[e] abide in Him.

 

[PeaceB]

Well, this thread has ran its course, i suppose im done now. Debates like this tend to strengthen my belief in liberty from religion. Praise the Lord for His spirit, who sets me free from this religious mess.

Your back-handed attempt to bash Catholics failed. Boo-hoo.

 

[W2L]

Your back-handed attempt to bash Catholics failed. Boo-hoo.

If you say so.

 

[Sam91]

I think this thread needs reported now

New International Version
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Proverbs 15:1

 

[Aramazd]

I think this thread needs reported now

New International Version
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Proverbs 15:1

Yes please, Catholic bashing should not be tolerated, nor any other denomination.

 

[Sam91]

Yes please, Catholic bashing should not be tolerated, nor any other denomination.

I have no report button x

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Do people in Heaven die? That is news to me.

She is human and she is not God, but nobody here believes that she is God. Do you know what a straw man argument is?

No. Only GOD is almighty. When human being dies, has no power to do anything to affect life here.

Worshipping humans is SIN

 

[W2L]

No. Only GOD is almighty. When human being dies, has no power to do anything to affect life here.

Worshipping humans is SIN

Better let the thread die, they are getting mad it seems.

 

[PeaceB]

Only GOD is almighty.

Agreed. I do not know why you keep repeating the same thing over and over again, even when people agree with you. Do you suffer from memory loss?

When human being dies, has no power to do anything to affect life here.

False. Are people in Heaven less powerful than people on Earth?

Worshipping humans is SIN

Agreed. Your problem is that nobody here does that.

 

[W2L]

James 1:19 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

 

[Sam91]

 

[Sam91]

1 peter 3:8-11
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. For, "THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT

The capitals aren't my own... copy and paste

John 13:34 .A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

 

[Arsenios]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to.

Then you cannot know the power of her love for all creation.
The Creator of creation entered creation as a creature through her...
He became a creature only through her person...

I just dont understand why we need Mary...

Because Christ chose her and no other through whom to become incarnate...
She is the Mother of our Lord within creation...
And IF we have Christ IN us, then she is OUR Mother as well...
At least insofar as we are united to Christ in us...
She is the peresecuted Woman of Revelation...
A Figure of the Body of Christ on earth after His Ascension into heaven...
Christ chose Her...
Adam and Eve both fell...
Christ is the new Adam...
He called His Mother "Woman" (Gyne)...
The Apostle John was also, by Christ's words, Her son...

The simple fact is that the entire incarnation of God into Flesh as the Son of Man is steeped in great and profound Mystery which begs entry in purity of heart, and yet rebuffs fallen humanistic reasoning for understanding... Indeed, the only understanding possible is supra-rational... And it only opens to the seeker with a penitent and loving heart...

As I started this walk in our Lord, I did not give her much ink myself... I knew God, so what do I need from this Woman, right? I can only say that as one slowly matures across the years in this Faith, such fallen notions as I had do get overturned gently and wonderfully... We have Christ IN us because She consented to have, and then did have, Christ IN Her...

And just as Eve is the fallen mother we all have, so also is Mariam the Mother we all have who is NOT fallen, insofar as we have union with Christ in us... She is the most Pure of all creation...

"We hold the Mystery of the Faith in a purified conscience... Christ in us..." Paul's very words...

Forgive me for not having read the entire thread before this reply...

Arsenios

 

[W2L]

Then you cannot know the power of her love for all creation.

Arsenios

I'll pass on that, it goes against my beliefs. All power belongs to God alone. Im not interested in the power of Mary.

 

[staffsgt7]

It is surprising that many don't look at the words of the prayers like the "Hail Mary". Basically, we are asking her to pray for us. Just as many ask others that they know to pray for them - we ask Mary to pray for us. What better person than one without sin who is Jesus' mother?! I prefer asking Mary to pray for me than another who is not free from sin.

That is all it is about.

When I pray the rosary, I also pray directly to God and I remember the life of Jesus in the stations of the cross that are also said on that rosary. It focuses my mind on His life and death for not only me, but for all of us.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Agreed. I do not know why you keep repeating the same thing over and over again, even when people agree with you. Do you suffer from memory loss?


False. Are people in Heaven less powerful than people on Earth?


Agreed. Your problem is that nobody here does that.

GOD is GOD.

Only GOD deserves worship.

Not human beings.